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I’ve been asking other contractors what, if anything, can be done about end-of-the-job edginess between client and contractor on a residential remodel. I’m generally on good terms with people during, and and even better terms after, a major remodel, but I’ve had a couple of “lulus” in the past couple of years that have blind-sided me, and frankly, rather than do a post-mortem, I’ve just wanted to walk away and forget about them. I’m pretty easy-going and accommodating, and get along well with my clients–women especially have told my wife how they appreciate that I respect their intelligence.
One contractor I know says he regards it as inevitable that everyone’s patience runs out before the job is finished. And one marketing consultant I know says he doesn’t know a single contractor who will take a residential remodel in the $250-750K range any more, because of the stress–they can’t make money on ’em and no one ends up happy. A buddy of mine said the same thing–said his wife forbade him to take any more residential remodels!
I’d like to hear from anyone who has successfully dealt with this situation.
Replies
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Ben
Not that I've ever managed to achieve it any more than once or twice by pure fluke, but it would appear that any job that comes in
i under budget and ahead of schedule
should make
i any
homeowner happy!!
Giving really realistic time frames, and keeping the site clean is really important. . . I'm really good at the latter!!!
-pm
*Ben,Patrick M. has it down......Ahead of schedule and under budget..that's the key. Clean job site is a great plus.Ed. Williams(No one I know can bid a remodel worth sh*t.) I'm not sure it can be done without pricing yourself out of business.
*Having done/managed new construction I am in the midst of my first remodel, my own home. What a surprise.Based on my personal experience I think doing an even better than normal job of customer education is the most important thing you can do for good relations. Be sure the customer knows that there will be surprises; that these surprises will cost money, time and more disorganization in the house.I think that for whatever reason too many bidders downplay the open-ended nature of a remodel except to insure a clause is in the contract making sure they will be paid. Then when the normal problems erupt emotion and suspicion cloud everything. For example, if the problem I'm experiencing with cabinets(my other post) was for someone else there is no doubt in my mind things would be strained at best.
*My observations are based on what I have seen working for others and having shot myself in the foot a time or two.I'd agree with the previous posts ..... being on time and on budget are critical as is client education. Client education means doing your homework beforehand - cover ALL your bases.Will blasting be needed for the foundation, will the existing electric service and hvac handle the addition,etc. Clients need to go into a project with their eyes wide open as does the contractor, hopefully with the same (realistic) expectations. Still learning .....
*This is all good advice, but I would add that part of customer education is continuous communication. Or as one costomer told me,"You need to manage my expectations." Remember that what seems small to us can seem very large to the customer.
*Virtually all of the contracting I have done over the past 10 years is residential remodeling, though nothing anywhere near as big as the 250,000 you mention. Communication is everything. The average customer doesn't know jack about what it takes to get the results they want. Hell, they usually don't even know WHAT they want. I try my best to be a good listener, from the first meeting, until I read the letter they write after the job is completed. I make a point of setting up meetings on a regular basis, at least once a week. This is set up at a time that is convienient for the customer. They always know that if they have a question or concern, we will be meeting Tuesday at 10 am for example. I try really hard not to ever give a knee-jerk reaction to a question, regardless how apparent the answer is. I try to show them that their question is always worthy of thought. This one thing has really helped me gain folks trust to the point that they will tell me not only big problems, but those little ones that I would rather know about, so I can address them (like, maybe a guy on the job uses bad language, or there are cigarette filters in the parking area, or other piddly stuff that offends the customer, but they might not say if they thought you thought they were nit pickin'). Over the months of a big job, these little things can add up to the point where the customer sees ONE more thing and blows up. I would rather they let it out, a little at a time.As far as the bidding challenges of remodeling go, what I prefer to do is work time + material. I have had good luck over the years using this approach, and the customer and I both benefit from this arangement. I like sitting on the same side of the table with the folks I do business with. I have made a lot of friends in business, and I have made a fair ptofit. I like it like that. - jb
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Speaking as a customer, a fresh red rose presented to me by the contractor every morning would go a looong way to eliminating a multiple of um, stresses. Of course, as a contractor, if the client gave me a rose every morning, I would redouble my efforts to put up with his/her um, idiosyncrasies. :-)
In my (admitedly limited) experience, reminding them and myself of how exciting the begining was, showing the drawings or models and talking about what the finished job would be like does a lot to revive the spirits. Also focusing on progress. I told a friend who I was helping with some work recently 'you can do this-you're a single parent, ANYTHING else is easy'. It may not be strictly true, but it worked.
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Remodeling is difficult to cost as Ed points out. If I were bidding this stuff, I think what I would do is find a cost for new construction of the end product I was trying to build, and then back out the cost of the improvements down to the basic shell or whatever. Forexample, my WI project basically is using only the foundation, frame, utility service and basic landscaping. Take the total cost of new construction, subtract the cost of building new what you are going to keep, and add a percentage to cover demo to that point. I jokingly say, multiply this number by 2 and you have a close estimate of the final cost.
As far as cleanup-geez, how many of you vacuum up new sites? Order yes, but if you spend time cleaning, you have to bill for it. Tell them it is going to be a mess, and periodically watch the movie "The Money Pit" to put yourself, the contractor, in the right frame of mind.
Dennis
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I've been in the const. buss. for about 25yrs. I've never QUIT a job. Until now, I started a job the first of june. The people ask me when I would be finished. I told them I should be out the first of july. From day one the man of the house started doing changes. I had a hard time keeping help on the job. My sheet rock man backed out, put me in one hell of a bine. As we all know theres a sheet rock shortage. From this point things went to HELL. The Women of the house talk to me worse than any sailor ever heared. The other half wasn't much better. So I fired the client............and walked away.
AND I'M SO GLAD!
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Rusty,
"Fired the client".......
God, I like the sound of that......
Can't tell you how many times I've wanted to do that.
Once I banned the builder from his own job. I told him I'd pull the whole crew off the job if he came around and spoke to any of my carpenters. Long story, but he stayed away.
Don't ever work for an American Airlines pilot who thinks he can be a builder in his "spare time".
Ed. Williams
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I like that- 'Fired the Client'
I once kicked a customer out of his house and told him not to come back 'till I was done.
One less person to trip over.
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Ed , about a year ago we turned down a new house for a UPS pilot [ his wife was a pilot for American ]. He kept coming around the house we were doing at the time , trolling for info . He managed to work into the conversation that he was a captian for UPS every time before he left . Guess we made the right decision , as hard as it is for me to turn down work [ after the eightys ] . Chuck
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Thanks to kwiseman & GACC Dallas
Feel better...now that somebody else knows how it feels. The bad thing is that now I have to go to court. But this to will past..................
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...the ones that drive me bats are the ones who are always makin' suggestions about HOW to do the job. I can't tell you how many times I've thought "when you order dinner at a restaurant, do you then go supervise the cook?". If it was that bad, Rusty, it's probably better to walk away than to end up strangling the guy. - jb
*Rusty, it sounds like a "constructive breach of contract" on the homeowners' part. They messed it up first, making working conditions intolerable and finishing on time impossible, in other words. Best of luck!
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I've been asking other contractors what, if anything, can be done about end-of-the-job edginess between client and contractor on a residential remodel. I'm generally on good terms with people during, and and even better terms after, a major remodel, but I've had a couple of "lulus" in the past couple of years that have blind-sided me, and frankly, rather than do a post-mortem, I've just wanted to walk away and forget about them. I'm pretty easy-going and accommodating, and get along well with my clients--women especially have told my wife how they appreciate that I respect their intelligence.
One contractor I know says he regards it as inevitable that everyone's patience runs out before the job is finished. And one marketing consultant I know says he doesn't know a single contractor who will take a residential remodel in the $250-750K range any more, because of the stress--they can't make money on 'em and no one ends up happy. A buddy of mine said the same thing--said his wife forbade him to take any more residential remodels!
I'd like to hear from anyone who has successfully dealt with this situation.
11/14/04
I was looking for stories about contractors who stopped work on a project because of a "MATERIAL breach of contract" on the part of the homeowner, and then sued the homeowner. Your post used the phrase "CONSTRUCTIVE breach of contract". Is there a difference? Any lawyers out there who want to take a shot at this one? boyd