Anyone build their own cabinets??…
I”m interested in building a set of cabinets for a 12′ by 12′ L shaped kitchen and a 4′ island that would be a basic base cabinet. I have a fair amount of woodworking experience having built a number of pieces of furniture and a few canoes. I have just never tackeled cabinets.
Looking to make craftsman style doors with flat panel (plywood) faces, solid frames, and probobly solid door fronts. Any good sources, pictures, etc… for step by step process of building a cabinet? Any tricks or ideas to avoid frustration?
upnorthframer
“If you think education is expensive, try ignorance!!!”
Replies
If you're a NYW fan, Norm just started a DIY cabinet series last week. Started with the very basics, and he's doing paint grade work but it could be a very good intro to the process for you.
PaulB
I'm not a NYW fan, but love this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Building-Your-Kitchen-Cabinets-Layout-Materials-Construction-Installation/dp/0918804159/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201788202&sr=8-1
eCabinets is a software package available from Thermwood as a free download, and to buy its equivalent (CabNetWare, KDCw, etc.) you would spend upwards of $6K.
The eCabs package allows you to "design" your cabinets exactly to your own assembly preferences.
That means that if you do all faceframed cabs with inset doors, or with overlay doors, or if you do frameless cabs, all is supported and can be done.
Whether you build with 3/4 plywood sides, decks, and stretchers, then 1/2" backs set inboard and housed in dados, nothing matters and all can be handled. Any joinery you want from plain butts to full dados to blind dados is supported.
While designed to produce output for a CNC machine, the program is used by plenty of small shops that cut parts using only saws. A job file produces a nested cutting list that optomizes your sheet goods usage.
Sooner or later in your project, it will all boil down to how many sheets of plywood to buy, and how much hardwood to mill up and blank, then how to proceed cutting stock all up into parts. You might as well be using eCabs to guide your way and make the "paperwork" side of the project easy.
the one place i still mess up is where you have a L in the cabinets i use my standard 2"stile in the corner,then the drawers hit each other.i know not to do it,but could very easily screw it up to day if i was building cabs.
it's a lot of work,but i don't know of a more rewarding job ,everytime you walk in the kitchen you will smile. even when your doors hit each other :] larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
The part I don't like is buying and installing the drawer guides.
Buy them by the case from (I can't think of the name) woodworkersupply.ccom orsomething like that.
One order and catalogs forever.
Somebody knows the name, not me today.
Joe H
I recently bought a Jig-It dohickey from Rockler to install drawer glides, and it works like a charm. I've done nine drawers so far on my current project and have at least 20 more to do. So far, I've nailed every one!!
I'm glad you found something to make it easier.
However you cut it, tho, it's always my least favorite part of building cabs.
Before the Jig-It dohickey, installing glides was definitely low on my favorites list too. Now, I guess my least favorite chore is installing the drawer fronts so they come out dead-on. I guess that there will always be something. - lol
For drawer fronts use double-stick tape on the front of the drawer boxes and shim the drawer fronts for proper spacing before pushing them tight against the drawer box and tape. Then screw them tight from inside the drawer. The result is perfect alignment without using the screwy drawer front adjusters.
Billy
Isn't it pretty tough to get inside the drawer to drive the screws?
Make sure the top is open. In other words, make sure you add the slides before you install it and but the countertop in.
That's the biggest change I've made recently. I was always in a hurry to ge the stuff in the house to make the customer happy - then I would install the drawers/doors. Now I make sure it's all done before it leaves.
The drawer front sticks to the drawer boxes because of the double-sided tape -- you just slide the drawer out and screw it from inside.
Edited 2/1/2008 8:58 am ET by Billy
That's how I'm doing them for the current job. These cabs are getting 2" thick concrete countertops, so my tops are solid 3/4" ply. This makes the top drawer fronts something of a hassle.
I use double sided tape then very carefully pull the drawer, move it to the bench, mark the location, separate the front and remove the tape, reposition the front, and screw it on from inside the drawer box. It works, but .......... - lol
Now that the customer has decided on their drawer pulls, I'll be able to drill the fronts, position them, and run a couple of screws in from the front using the holes. This will make it quite a bit easier.
I find I don't have to remove the double-sided tape after the drawer fronts are stuck onto the drawer boxes. The tape is very thin and I leave it sandwiched in place -- that's the point -- you don't to have to move the front after it is aligned and stuck in place. I drill pilot holes in the drawer boxes first (I should have mentioned that). Then I use screws to pull the fronts tight after they are aligned and stuck to the tape. Using the pull holes and screws to tighten things up saves a step, too.
Billy
Edited 2/1/2008 8:59 am ET by Billy
My drawer boxes sit slightly inside the carcass so the thin tape won't quite "reach". Now that the customer has picked their pulls, I can use "Plan B" for installing the drawer fronts. - lol
I see -- I guess the tape method works better for face frame than frameless cabinets. I guess you could attach a small block to the inside of the cabinet or back of the drawer (or a wedge in the drawer slide) that would hold it forward enough for the thin tape to stick. But I don't know if that saves you any time.
Maybe Plan B works better for you...
Billy
Wooden matchsticks or short cut of 1/8 dowel can be taped to the back corners of the slides we use, prohibiting the undermound slide hooks from fully engaging the d'box, and thus pooching the d'box out enough to make the tape method work.
After the fronts are on, pull the drawers, pop off tape and shim sticks, and re-insert drawer.
I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if I am redundant, but i saw this and wanted to share my method. I just finished a custom kitchen, totally scratch built (except for prefinished ply) for a client that wanted inset doors and drawers, and wanted the gaps held to 1/16th or less.On the drawer fronts, I mounted the drawer body to the slides, then predrilled clearance holes in the body, mounted the knobs to the fronts, then tested the fit with my shims. Then I used hot glue, and reset the fronts using my shims to nail the spacing. 30 seconds later, I pulled the drawer open, ran the screws into the face and that's that. IF the glue disturbs the depth (too much) I just pulled the screws, pried the face off, shaved the glue, and rescrewed. perfect fit every time, and a happy client.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
You leave the knob/pull screws buried between the drawer box and the drawer front? I've never thought of that, but it may be better than having to hustle up longer screws to reach thru the box front and drawer front. This gets interesting when the customer specs something with a metric thread. - lol
I only go thru the double sided tape (or hot glue) contortion when the customer hasn't picked their pulls/knobs. I try to make that their first decision and get at least one of each type or size. Then, I can go ahead and drill the drawer fronts and use those holes to attach the fronts after I get them aligned just right.
It's one less screw on the interior, and it's often some weird sorta brass but not really color. Some consider it ugly.Regarding this thread, there's a metric ton of good advice here, lot's of ways to skin a cat.As I mentioned, i just finished a 30 box, 57 door, 12 drawer kitchen that was scratch built, and we did it that way because the client went to Clive Christian, Christopher Peacock, and other high end kitchen cabinet makers, and came away liking only the Clive Christian version. And the cabinets started at over $75K from them on a loose "starter" quote.So, I was able to build that kitchen, but for much less. The freedom was great. I controlled all the interfaces of trim, and every last 1/8", so things came out exactly as designed, no more, no less.We started with scale drawings and elevations to determine the layout, then I did full scale sections for myself on roll paper. Then i created build sheets from those. That was time consuming, and i'm looking at automating that process better, but....it resulted in the build going smoothly, with no re-dos, and parts fitting exactly as designed.If you can make a canoe, you have an eye for lofting and patterns, and a straight kitchen will seem easy. Have fun, don't do it like the stamp 'em out factories do, or you'll have a kitchen that looks like a factory kitchen...use the freedom, and design something that knocks your socks off!Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Jake -
I build cabinets and furniture for a living and your process sounds much like mine - except for the roll paper - lol. I use TurboCad to do plan,elevation, and isometric drawings. The iso's give the customers a much better idea of what they will be getting and that really helps. It also gives them plenty of opportunity to make changes because I tell them that although electrons are cheap, wood ain't!!
I avoid a lot of "do-overs" by completely drawing some of the more complicated cabinets in CAD. I draw every cut, dado, rabbett, pieces of trim, etc and often find something that just ain't gonna work. Like I said, electrons are cheap............
P.S. I couldn't make a canoe if you held me at gunpoint - lol
L in the cabinets i use my standard 2"stile in the corner,then the drawers hit each other.i know not to do it,but could very easily screw it up to day if i was building cabs.
Building 'blind' corners can cause a bit of controversy, I've found. Seems like everyone knows the wrong way to do it (other than the person expoinding on errancy <g>).
Doubling that stile to make a "meeting" point for the other cabinet is one of those things that ought to be easy to remember, but occassionally isn't. Personally, I find frameless cabinets much more "fussy" to join in corners.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Not tough. Taunton has a bunch of pretty nice books on building cabs that are pretty nice. Just search on "Kitchen" at the Taunton store.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Do you plan to build the doors and drawers yourself or just the cabinets?
Can you describe the plywood doors that you plan a litte more? I can't envision a plywood craftsman doors.
I think he means a solid wood door frame with a flat plywood panel instead of a raised panel.
I meant more of a shaker style door, with square stiles and rails 1/4" plywood on the inside. I would like to make the doors, drawer fronts, etc... basically the entire kitchen. Then I could use granite tile for the counter top and build the entire kitchen myself, saving major $$$$$$ My time is free for my own projects if you know what I mean!!!
upnorthframer
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance!!!"
I use 1/2" ply for the door panels instead of 1/4". The back can be rabbeted to fit the 1/4" dado in the frame parts, the 1/4" ply is never 1/4", and fits too loose for my taste.
For all the exposed end panels, I run my face frames long and apply 1/4" material to create a panel look.
For kitchen cabs, make sure you spend the time and/or money to make tight joints in your doors - mortise & tenon or similar. They get a lot of abuse.
Do you have a nice router table? If so, go with something like this:
http://eagleamerica.com/urw-text-3-piece-shaker-door-sets/p/199-8641/
Do you like the look of frameless cabinets? IMO, they're easier to build and the hardware is easier to install. Go with Euro hinges, the ability to adjust in all three dimensions is a great plus for your first try. For the face of the frameless, you can either go with a veneer strip or I just add a 1/2" to 3/4" thick slat to the front edge of the carcass. Whichever you're more comfortable with.
Make sure you draw up the whole room and check where doors and drawers will be when you open them (someone else mentioned this above). This will make the install much easier when you avoid any possible conflicts.
joe
For an A&C look I suspect you'll be adding color to the wood for the characteristic warm look.
Expect that the ply and the solid wood frame will not match in color unless you stain the ply differently. Darker I think, but check Taunton articles for guidance.
It's these little things if missed that will bug you every time you see them.
Good luck.
A lot depends on what kind of equipment you have access to. TS, jointer, and shaper or good router table. DP helps.
If you want to save $$$ make the boxes paint grade, the doors slab with solid wood edging. The drawer fronts can be solid wood of the same species. If you get tired of the wood on the doors, change'em out. S&R fronts just catch grease.
Paint grade allows you to use poplar or soft maple for FF's. I left the bottom rails out of my cabs so I could put pullouts and have no waste on the bottoms. Gives you at least 2" more. M&T joints are easy on the router table and TS. Or pocket screws if you want to fill the holes.
Boxes all ply, and backs 1/2". Drawers 1/2" baltic birch with simple rabbet and brad jointery.
Example here.
What does that photo have to do with the A&C style?
I was giving him an alternative to F&P, which I find is nothig more than an anacronism still being used when we have stable material for wide door and panel costruction.
And, how leaving off the bottom rail gives more room so you can have better access with slides.
Edited 2/1/2008 5:58 am ET by TomT226
Yes, I build my own cabinets.
If you have built furniture and canoes then this will be very easy albeit repetitive. The joinery is very simple unless you want to have exposed fancy hand cut dovetails.
Here are my recommended steps:
1. Get a copy of the free eCabinets software or other cad. It's very helpful.
2. Look at commercial cabinets and design your butt off before making any cuts. The upside to making them yourself is that you can do anything, but of course, that's also the downside. Put yourself in an assembly line mindset rather than a one-off mindset. The hardest part is all the doors.
3. For Shaker doors and face frames, definitely invest in a router set. Check out http://www.routerbitworld.com Good prices, and very good service. I own a door set by Amana and like it a lot.
4. Don't overbuild the boxes. In other words, it's okay to use plywood for the cases. I typically use a matching hardwood ply for visible interiors like under sinks. I've also used 1/2" apple ply for drawer sides and edge banded it when dovetails weren't required/desired.
5. Acquire drawer/door hardware and sinks or other fixtures in advance of the construction of their cases. Specs are usually good accurate, but there's no substitute for holding it in your hand when doing this for the first time.
6. Make sure you have the space for staging the sheet goods, lumber, and finished cases. Hopefully you've got a big shop or spare garage bay to use when finishing.
Have fun.
Edited 1/31/2008 1:10 pm ET by WindowsGuy
Another freebie I find helpful is this
http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Business/Specific_Application_Calculators/CutList_Plus.html#ggviewer-offsite-nav-10170304
It is called CUTLIST PLUS, punch in the dimensions and it lays out the sheets and boards for you.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I checked this site out, but it said that you get a trial reader, which it sounds like you have to buy after a while. Is this the right place???"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
Never built a cabinet, but have specified a few in my time. Of course, you'll use good techniques and materials...the guys on this site will give you great advice. Here's some from the design area.....DO NOT skimp on the drawer glides. Put full-extension glides in all cabinets, if you can, or at least those for utensils or plastic wraps. Find a place to see and try the self-closing Blumotion glides. Definitely not cheap, but famously loved by all my clients!
In the Fine Woodworking edition Norm Abrams has an article about making kitchen cabinets.
Used his method when built 30' of cabinets to set up friends shop. They are really solid and look nice after paint.
nailer
With your experience in furniture and canoe making, you're aware of the value of patterns. I suggest you get some large sheets of cardboard and draw full scale layouts. Easier to see what your end products will look like, and you'll catch a lot of mistakes before they happen. Time spent doing the layouts will be paid back when you start cutting the wood.
Here's a sampling of what it is like designing and building cabs with the eCabinets software.
Unless you are doing some really funky advanced stuff, you are never "doing CAD drawing" with the software. Mostly, you are setting parameters and sizings. An example of a parameter is "full dado backs into sides and decks, dado depth 3/8", clearance sides 0.020", clearance bottom 0.020""
An example of a size setting is "Toekick height 4""
The software comes with already-built "seed cabs" for both frameless construction and faceframed construction. Basic wallcabs, basecabs, corners, etc., are all there at the beginning in the STANDARD cabs library.
Your job with the software is to pull one of the standards into the program's editor and modify it so it has all your size and build preferences.
Here is a pic of a faceframed base, one drawer over a pair of doors, with an adjustable shelf in the space behind doors. I exploded it a little so you can see the parts. Joints are mostly butts, with a few full dados, exactly as might be done in a "saw" (read: not CNC) shop.
View Image
Throw that cab into a job "batch," run the "nesting," and you get output showing how to cut parts. Here is the part for the faceframe parts.
View Image
I did not change the setting before nesting to say "all parallel cutting, use 0.133 kerf," which I would do if saw cutting and using my good rip blade, so what you are seeing in these nest pics is as if the parts are cut on the CNC. But you can get the picture.
Here is the pic of the part of the cutting done from 3/4 plywood. Since this cab has 1/2" ply for its back, plus a drawerbox with 5/8 sides and a 1/4 bottom, there are more pages of nested parts.
View Image
What you are seeing are the "nest" outputs for a batch that contains just this one cab. A whole job might show the nesting for the 3/4 ply parts as requiring, say, 22 sheets of 48x96, and the nest drawings will run for pages.
You can specify doors and drawerfronts as "build in house" in which case you will see parts for those items in nest diagrams, too. If you specify them as "outsourced," then they show up as output on the "buy list" and are scheduled out per size.
Here is the beauty of eCabs and other programs like it. Once you have built a library of YOUR SEED CABINETS, meaning one each of every type you plan to build (H, W, and D not important in the seeds), then doing a job with the software means just bringing into the batch (or room) the cabs, one by one, giving specific H x W x D to each cab as it is added to the job.
A seed built as 27 x 34.5 x 23.75 and then resized at batch time to 29-7/8" x 34-1/2" x 25" creates a new cab with all the parts resized. Seeds are used over and over.
Edited 2/1/2008 8:40 am ET by Gene_Davis
Thanks for the input and pics. I went to ecabs and tried to sign up for the free software however I haven't recieved an email back from them. Not sure why. That defenitly looks like it would make things much easier for me and it also gives a great visual which is what i need. Cool stuff!!!
upnorthframer
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance!!!"
Don't like the (un-needed) nesting in the toe kick - makes it hard to cut on a TS - have to rough then trim -
View Image
Forrest
Edited 2/1/2008 9:35 am ET by McDesign
I didn't make it clear in my prior post. When doing the "nesting" settings, one chooses between the two choices, "cut line," or "true shape." The diagram shown was done with "true shape," which is used when jobfiles are sent directly to the CNC router for cutting.
It is a cryptic way of putting it that the software developers used, but suffice it to say that "cut line" would orient all the parts with homerun rips, and your rip blade width is specified by you.
Yep - lots of work, but very gratifying / rewarding, especially to get exactly the kitchen we wanted, with all the custom touches that add $$$ when buying (e.g. 30: deep cabs, everything except under the sinks & overhead is drawers or pullouts, etc.
19 units plus 3 sections for the fireplace area; 50 drawers of varying size/depth (those 30" glides get expensive!). All pre-finished maple plywood, solid wood panels for the doors & drawer fronts.
I did cut some corners where I felt it didn't matter, such as using miter-lock joints instead of dovetails for the drawers (just as strong, easier to machine & assemble).
Has anyone used the techniques and router bit designed by Marc Sommerfeld?
I saw his demonstration at a local woodworking show along with his dvd's, seem to present a relatively simple system for building cabinets usig a table saw and two sets of router bits. I'm wondering what you pro's out there think about it.
I have a few of his router bit, and are initially impressed with them--I actually saw shavings on the floor after the cut not dust.
dustinpockets
Here are some I did. Sorry for the poor picture.
Upnorthframer:
It sounds like you would enjoy building your cabinets. I enjoy it, but I enjoy production type work and have developed an efficient system that works for me. Most of my cabinet making has been self taught but I've tried to pick up things wherever I can. I haven't made any for a few years since I sold my house & shop, but I'm getting ready to start on a set in a couple weeks for the house I'm building. Here are a few things that I do.
The first thing that I do is draw them out in detail. I've used Auto Cad LT, but now use Soft Plan, however, even graph paper would work. In a notebook start a detailed cut list for the boxes, the doors and the drawers. I make the doors slightly oversized and square them up and trim to size later when I'm fitting them. Take the time beforehand to figure out what needs to be cut, and how it needs to be cut to achieve your results and make notes of why. I like to have everything figured out before I start. For your first kitchen you may want to build a practice cabinet to help with your cut list and procedures. This may sound harder than it really is, but it's worth taking the time up front to figure out.
I like to cut all my box parts first, mostly because it's the least favorite job and I want to get it over with (those 4x8 sheets get heavy - especially melamine). I start with the sides (which should all be the same) then the bottoms & backs & stretchers. I stack them away under my assembly table in separate piles.
Then come the drawers which I like to dovetail, sand & finish before sliding the bottoms into the dado's. Then I make the doors. Even for flat panel doors I like to glue up the panels & plane them down as needed. Plywood is nice but as others have said it won't stain the same as the door frames and it really doesn't take as much wood for the panels as you would think.
Assembly is the fun part, especially when all the doors and drawers are made and neatly stacked ready to spring the cabinet to life. After screwing the cabinet box together, and with the box still on the assembly table, I use a full size lexan template to locate drawer glide hardware door mounting hardware and shelf pin holes (I too like Blum full extension glides with their soft close feature but expect to pay dearly for them). Add hardware, the drawers, fit the doors and install the drawer fronts before the box ever leaves the table. I do remove the doors which are ready for final sanding & finishing.
I don't like to build faceframes, but I do make 1 - 5/8" wide styles to cover the front edge of the box sides (between the doors) that resembles a faceframe when finished. The doors are inset with these styles but rest on the cabinet bottom & the stretcher that sits under the drawer, if that makes sense?
I also like to build toe kicks separately that I rip out of 2 x 6 stock, I think I rip them down to 4- 3/4". Advantages to this is that I can screw them down to the floor and the tile-setter just tiles right to them. More importantly is that I can efficiently get six 30-1/2" sides out of a piece of plywood."
If you decide to build your cabinets yourself I don't think you'd regret it.
Clay