anybody have some ideas on what the best cad programs are out there and how to locate reviews?
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Many extensive discussions on this subject have been had in this forum. Try a search first and then come back with more questions. I'm sure you'll have some.
“The richest genius, like the most fertile soil, when uncultivated, shoots up into the rankest weeds..” – Hume
thanks, there is certainly a lot of stuff to read there. based on what i saw, i'm thinking chief architect or softplan. does anyone have a basis for comparison? which is easiest to learn?
Nobody can afford both programs, and each seem to have their proponents here. Based on reading all the reviews here and using trial versions of each, I might lean toward Softplan, but they are very similar.
You might get the trial versions of each to see what you think.
thanks woodguy. that's my thinking. i was just wondering if anyone had a lot of experience with both and had formulated an opinion based on that.
Do a search for topic/softplan/chief architect.
Include Mike Smith or Piffin in to/from.[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
thanks, i'll include those names in the search.
I have been looking at them both for some time. I will be ordering softplan on monday. Both seem to be great programs.
Sam
why did you ultimately decide on softplan? do you have some specific reasons?
I've have been a Softplan user since 1997. I don't think you will regret your decision.
Make sure you join Splash Users Forum. It has been exclusive with membership to users only, but someone said it was going public.
http://www.splash.softplansplash.org
Introduce yourself as a new user and anytime you get jambed up or need some help.... post questions / issues. The abundant help will surprise you.
I was just trying to save you some time searching all the past discussions or waiting for a reply to your question. Some version of your question has been asked probably fifty times in the years I've been here, no exaggeration, and I always pay attention because someday I'll commit to an object-based program instead of the AutocadLT I use now.
I don't think anyone here has used both programs. If they have, or someone new here has, I would be interested in the answer as well.
If you go to the Chiefarchitect web site you can download a working demo. Just can't save anything.
The basic method with the program is draw like you build.
i.e. build the walls, place the doors, place the windows, place the cabinets, and so on.
They also have a 90 day return.
I've been using since version 7 (lastest is #10) and it is easy to use in a basic way. You can go into great detail, as seen on the web site pictures. There are forums on the site where people are ready to help. Same with tech support. Install to as many PC's as you like but you only get 1 key. High powered PCs help but are not required. (4 years or younger)
thanks guys. i think i'll give chief a try on account of the 90 day return policy. from everything i read after searching previous posts on here, going back several years, it looks like chief has the best chance of meeting my needs. i'm still curious as to why the fellow who was on here ulitimately chose to go with softplan after experimenting with both chief and softplan...? this breaktime place is a great resource.
Sunsen,
One reason for my decision was based on some comments over at Journal of Light Construction forum on this exact same comment. The moderator on the technology forum made a comment that one thing he has seen is that lots more remodelers used chief vs softplan and more builders using softplan vs chief. I am strictly a new home builder, never have done any remodeling and I don't want to. I have been using the chief demo for the past couple of weeks and it is a great program!!!
I should have my copy of softplan this next week....just in time to take it on my week vacation to hawaii after christmas. Do you think my wife will mind???
Sam
sunsen... i asked for comparisons on the Chief User Group between Softplan & Chief
the best answers i got were on the Chief Talk site.. ignore the posts that are blatently Pro-Chief and keep reading .... i think there are 7 pages of posts on that thread...
very interesting..
it's alomost impossible to make comparisons unless you have current training in both programs... apparently there are some out there who can actually make those comparisons
here's a link.. let me know what you think
http://www.chieftalk.com/showthread.php?t=21530
thanks mike. this is exactly what i had in mind when i asked my original question! i'll head on over there right now.
I bought Softplan back in about 97 or 98
I have a neighbor/competitor who used chief fluently at the time and I was already signed up to go to JLC LIve at Rhode Island.So I delayed my pruchas3e a few weeks so I could see it first hand at the trade show. I also compared it to Softplan and Vectorworks and Archicad, all of which are good programs, but I came away with the impression that for the kind of work I do. SP was the better and more powerful choice. I have never regretted it. SP also has a refund policy, but I think it is only thirty days.
If you have a chance to go to a trade show before you plunk down the dollars, it would be a good investment. Sometimes, the cost of the show can be saved in discounts on tools and programs.Chief was reputed to be very easy to learn back then, and what I saw was that it was true, but I found it no trouble to be up and running with SP either.Joe Stoddard is the moderator at JLCOnline and he seems to present pretty much the same opinion today after using and testing both programs for years. I tend to disagree with him that SP is not as handy for remodeling as Chief. I do know that he actually thinks chief is better for remo ofr just that more remo guys seem to use it compared to SP.But that brings us to "your needs" What are they? How do you expect you will use the program?Here is a link to JLCs forum, but be aware that Joe is kind of testy about repeating what has already been written ,s o read the threads on the subject first.
http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3and here is one to SPLASH, the SPusers forum
http://splash.softplansplsh.org/front/main.htm
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Here is the corrected version of that link.http://www.chieftalk.com/showthread.php?t=21530In trying to make you version work, google lead me to this site.http://www.cheftalk.com/They know nutten about architectural design software..
.
Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
...very interesting, the chieftalk site ca vs. sp arguement. it kind of degenerates into a discussion of the merits of paypal, etc. for a while but returns to topic for some interesting information. i'm intending to design a non standard house on some acreage i'm purchasing just north of napa valley california and my concern is that chief will not be able to do what i ask of it. there was an interesting sidebar to the discussion in chieftalk about how to get around the defaults in the auto generation tool, (i'm guessing that's how to refer to the function), to build a non standard, (for chief), southwestern style home. flat roof, parapet walls, scuppers, corbels, etc. i see that you basically have to find a way to get creative with the available options. the guru's on the site do seem to be fairly clever in that regard, by the way. my design will be heavily influenced by falling water, a style which i happen to love, and it definitely has non standard elements. i'm thinking chief will be the right choice based on bang for the buck and support, (all the softplan users on chieftalk complained about the non support aspect of sp but you might expect that from folks who are posting on a rival website). i think i'll stick with my decision to give chief a whirl and i do appreciate the input from everyone here.
i'm curious what lind of non0spport arguements are made about SP. Every singletime I have called them directly I got the help I needed immediately
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
if you follow the chief talk link that mike smith provides you'll see the complaints. they didn't seem real specific but there are definitely some disgruntled users out there. one fellow seems to think softplan is going to go away in the not too distant future, something about their business model. follow the link, i don't have any first hand knowledge so as far as i'm concerned it's all hearsay.
interestingly, i saw a post by sam, the fellow who's headed for hawaii with his wife and his new copy of softplanlt on the link someone here provided for the jlc, i believe it was. i guess he's having second thoughts. the internet is certainly a unique place.
Not having second thoughts about softplan. Just second thoughts about whether I will be happy starting out with Lite. I am ordering it first thing in the morning and getting it shipped 2nd day so I can make sure it is here before we leave for hawaii on the 26th. I plan on spending my time on the plane learning the basics. We will be there for a week for my mother in laws wedding and visiting friends. My wife grew up on oahu. Maybe i will take the laptop to the beach so I don't get bored!!!
Sam
i hear you. i was on maui last month for one good week, what with a combination of wind and waves that made for some pretty decent wavesailing, and a second week of lousy conditions, which i could have done without. one can only sit around on the beach for so long, heh, heh. hopefully that program keeps you occupied.
"Maybe i will take the laptop to the beach so I don't get bored!!!"LOL, a man after my own heart!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,
From what I read here, you seem to be the Softplan Guru of sorts. What is your opinion of lite vs pro for the guy just starting designs for his company? From what I read, I am quite sure I will end up upgrading to pro, I just can't justify the three grand right now. I may end up divorced over the $900 for lite.....but I'll let her have the kids if she lets me keep the software!!!!
My thoughts were, get lite, learn the basics on a budget, then upgrade.
Sam
My thoughts were, get lite, learn the basics on a budget, then upgrade.
That will work. I don't think the upgrade cost you anymore going the Lite route and upgrade than buying SP Pro from the start.
SP user since V9 in 1997.
If money were that tight, I might go that way, but i'll say this - I couldn't afford the whole package when I bought it eihter, but it is an investment, not an expense. It WILL pay for itself. The more you will use it, the faster it will pay off. If your wife doesn't understand that you have to invest money to make money, you have another issue than the cost of the software.
She does have an issue with you though, if you are going t5o have your head stuck in a laptop all the while you are supposed to be relaxing in Hula land! There is a time under heaven for every purpose. If you don't give notice to her concerns and attention to her desires while on vacation, the cost of software is going to be the least of your problems.back to topic - my wife adsked one time a few years ago why I could spend a thousand or whatever it was on tools when she couldn't have a thousand dollar whatever. I answered that it was my continual investment in tools amoung other things that had allowed me to increase my hourly rates from $18 to $40 in three or four years. I pointed out the additional many thousands of dolllars of income that is generated actuarily by good investments. I asked her if she enjoyed the lifestyle and decreasiong debt loads this made possible.I've never heard her ask or even imply the question again. So approach it from an actuarial viewpoint and bring her in on the decision. I see you have had some good advice on this from over at JLC - whether to go lite or full load.. They have made some very good points that I was unaware of, having never used lite. I don't drink lite beer either. I'm a full commitment kind of guy.A large part of this goestto how you would use the program. I do a lot of remo on older unique structuires, so I NEED to be able to create my own walls to be accurate and usefull. If I were only drawing new tract homes with 8' walls, the lite would be more than sufficient for most things.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,
Thanks for your comments....all very good points. Especially the comments about lite working well for drawing new homes. That is all I do....never have done any remodeling. I had some friends/neighbors ask me about doing some for them a few years back and I just let my guys have it as a side job to make some extra money after hours. The neighbors were happy about the work and lower cost and my guys were exstatic about the extra money.
As for my wife....heres a little more background. I have never had trouble buying tools...she just rolls her eyes and teases me about the toys. The issues right now is that we are about $4M in debt on a subdivision loan and several multifamily buildings right now and are not at the point where things are paying much yet....so it just feels to her like we are more and more in debt all the time and when are we going to get out??? So...that's where her stress comes from. I did hear her say something about balancing the business checkbook today and she didn't make a comment about the new $1000 charge to the debit card....so I think she has accepted it!!!!! Shes really a great help in our business....she does a lot to help. She is in charge of the homeowners association on our condo's and office buildings and also does all of the work on the 2/10 warranty stuff. She also does all of the marketing for the company. Damn....I hope she never leaves me.....how could I get all of this done?????
Sam
Sounds like you already do more sharing than you first seemed to imply.I hear that, "My wife will divorce me if..." line too often, and sometimes I want to scream, "Just grow a pair, man!";)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
thanks mike, that was an interesting link. i really like the support aspect of chief. i'll be checking with the tech guys over there about some specific capabilities i'm going to need. if i can easily adjust their auto generated drawings with the cad part of the program i'm in business. that's the biggest concern i have; ...seems minor but it'd be a big deal to me in terms of really getting creative with my plans.
Anybody try Google SketchUp?
It's free.
most that are here...
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I've used programs like chief architect and soft plan. They are simple to use and aren't bad if you're doing the standard square box kind of thing. The problem comes if you want to build something a little out of the ordinary or draw construction details that might be required for building permits - you can only get out of the program what the programmers put in, and the "instant architect" programs don't have a lot. If you want a program that does a great job on architectural projects and is also good for furniture design, cabinetry, etc you can't do much better than DataCad. You will need to spend some time learning the program, but it's easy to pick up, and once you know how to use it there are no limits to what you can draw. It's an equal to AutoCad but easier to use and less expensive. The full-blown program costs about $1,100.00 the last time I was at their site, but you can get the lite program with almost all the full program features for a few hundred bucks. You can also download a 30 day demo program. I've been using the lite program for years and this past spring did a full set of drawings for a commercial project - and got them passed by the building inspector on the first submission.
kraut ....
<<<<
82922.29 in reply to 82922.1
I've used programs like chief architect and soft plan. They are simple to use and aren't bad if you're doing the standard square box kind of thing. The problem comes if you want to build something a little out of the ordinary or draw construction details that might be required for building permits - you can only get out of the program what the programmers put in>>>
you have obviously NOT used either program, because both can certainly keep up with DataCad .... AND
they ( Chief & Softplan ) are NOT simple to use...
true .. you can only get out of the program what the programmers put in, but from your post, you don't have a clue what the programmers put in
other than that.... i bet you do some pretty nice work with DataCad, but you don't know much about Chief or Softplan , not the output thta you can get with either
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I agree with Mike Smith...(but no Chief experience). SP is complex, through and quite capable of producing first quality drawings as well as any program on the market. Are you sure you have actually used Softplan?
It's an equal to AutoCad
If you have access to Splash (the SP user forum) ask about SP Architects and Home Designers who have come over from Auto Cad and will never go back.
To fully benefit from all SP does and contains is a complex learning curve, but lacks almost nothing related to residential construction.
To describe SP as "Instant Architect" (like some $69.00 program from Best Buy's computer program section) is an undeserved discredit, and seems like the opinon of someone with little or no SP experience.
you may think you have used programs "like" chief and SP, but your comments show you know nothing about them. I won't take away from Datacad. It can get a job done from what I've heard, but it is no equal to SP for home design. It may have some more pure CAD tools for 2D cabinet design tho. But there are no details SP cannot produce.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'll second Mike Smith's comments. You appear to have dabbled with Chief or Softplan. Chief has a built in Cad system that allows you to do damn near anything you can do in Autocad, but easier.
Please do not speak of that which you do not know.
Bruce
ok, here's a question for all the chief users out there. will the program allow me to say, create a foundation wall that is sloped on the outside face and buried to varying elevations around the perimeter of a small ridgetop? and, if i create this detail with the cad function, can i get it to show up in the auto generated drawings? do you do this sort thing by starting with terrain modeling the ridgetop then importing your detail from the library and overlaying the foundation or is it a lot more complicated than that? this question goes to the heart of my concern about buying an "object oriented" program. i know sp and chief are good for standard stuff but how easy is it to work around the typical applications and do the non-standard details? i'm sure i'll find out for myself when the program arrives but if anyone out there with some chief experience knows, i'd appreciate the input. maybe i ought to take this question to the online forum at chief but you folks seem like a fairly knowledgeable bunch so i thought i'd ask. thanks.
it sounds like a "pony wall".. but your 2d brainstorm is the best.. take it to the Chief User's group or to ChiefTalk... the power users there are better suited to answer thatMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
heh, heh, i went over to chieftalk and the first person i noticed on there as a regular poster was the architect for the last house i built. ...small world. i'm sure he can clue me in as to the workings of chief.
Yes, it's a VERY small world. ;-)
lol! maybe too small! hi richard!
while your here, will chief do what i asked about a couple of posts back?
Hi Tom,If I'm understanding what you're after, it will do that, but it might require some slight workarounds, depending on if you're looking for a correct plan view or just a correct look in 3D. A regular stepped wall is easy, but a stepped AND battered foundation wall is a little tricky, and you might need to resort to a 3D molding polyline to create it. I'd suggest playing around with Chief awhile, then if you've got questions, stop by my office and I'll show you how to do something if you get stymied.
Edited 12/19/2006 4:52 pm ET by RichardAIA
thanks richard,
i'm happy to hear that it's doable. it would be great to be able to do it in plan view. i think maybe the foundation i'm envisioning is as tricky as i'll ever get with the program. well, i have some cantilevered areas i'm wondering about also, but it seems there ought to be a way to do those. ...and maybe if it will allow me to draw a buildable m.c. escher stair, heh, heh. those folks at chief are going to regret the fact that they're offering an idiot such as myself a year's worth of support, lol! i'll try not to bug you too much.
enjoy the holiday,
tom
i mean "you're".