I’ve come to the conclusion that there are some business that are not really businesses. I’ll explain.
This week I called three different companies, one a countertop fabrication/installation company with a showroom, a large ceiling fan company on our main drag, and a cabinet company. Actually “four” companies, because I also called Home Depot to get some price info from their cabinet dept.
All calls I made were in vain.
1. Countertop showroom person who could give me a ballpark was not available until the next morning.
2. Ceiling fan company got me a recording (Monday) and I’ve still not received a call back.
3. Cabinet company: same as #1 above
4. Home Depot had all of their “associates” busy and someone would call me back. Natta!
Last week I got the same baloney from an electrical supply house. I finally went there (after three calls) and still got no info.
The purpose of telephones is to obtain and disseminate info. If info cannot be obtained, why the hell are these so called businesses in business? Are they really businesses? If so, they are certainly not “professional” businesses.
Thanks for allowing me to vent.
Replies
1 and 3 are pretty weak complaints.
Just because the info isn't available on demand 24/7 doesn't mean they're not a "company" ....
And point 4 is a moot point ... what kinda info could the HD worker give you that you don't already know ... I'd never make that call expecting any form of knowledge on the other end of the line ....
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
When the hell did you become DanfrigginT?J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
I agree with you. 1 and 3 are very weak and HD never knows, but more importantaly: cabinets are $52 per linear square foot, countertops are $38 per linear sauare foot and ceiling fans go one way in the summer and the other way in the winter.
I learned the pricing when I first got in the building buisness working at a cabinet shop. I am sure that more information was ready to be imparted by the poster, but we would get numerous calls daily for "ballpark" on a cabinet price, ask the caller what style, finish and size and the answer was "just an average cabinet, they would get mad if you could not give them a $, hence $52 per linear sq ft. Never had a complaint on the price.
I use the phone to find out when someone will be in the showroom to talk with me, but then I also use my phone to set finish nails.
There truly is no end to the indignity. DanT
I had to wait at least a day before I changed back to make sure U saw it!
Thanks for your time .... DanT Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Ok, ok I saw it. Look what if my wife sees it and goes home to Pittsburg, becomes a Steelers fan, learns to love hills, thinks younger guys are better, likes your son (I know that would happen) and I have to learn to cook clean and pay for my own health care.................and other stuff???!!!!DanT
wanted ...
new bride with boat ...
please send picture of boat.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Sonny, they are businesses...just businesses with poor business practices.
The counter showroom person obvioulsy is showroom babysitter and all they do is walk around and defer all pricing to the fabricator.
The ceiling fan company should at least return your calls. The sole proprietor owner is obvioulsy overworked.
You got what you expected from HD!
Go ahead vent..but it aint going to change!
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Jeff, from 8-4:30 - not 24/7.At Home Depot there are always at least 2 people in the cabinet dept. So I don't expect the receptionist who takes my call and rerout it, to have the info, but I think I should be able to talk to someone in a dept. Asking the current lead time of Kraft Maid cabinets should not be to difficult to answer from those who sell them, and in that dept., and No, I don't think I should know that this time of the year. I was at a customers house when I called both, HD and the countertop company.Blue, I now get "what I should expect from HD" from small companies now as well, so where's the difference?
Blue, I now get "what I should expect from HD" from small companies now as well, so where's the difference?
Good point Sonny! you'd think the smaller companies would be fighting for their lives and offering great service. If the smaller companies cant afford a full time receptionist..they can at least hire a live answering service!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
for what it's worth ... from what I've heard ...
HD's Kraft Maid's aren't the same KM's that a real KM dealer can get their hands on .... and ... I'm yet to hear of a HD cabinet layout or order that's been reasonably trouble free ...
word to the wise .... check it out.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Thanks, Bucky.1. They are the same. My guy from HD quit and is now working for a cabinet
shop who sells K.M. Same cabinets. As of today when I found out about his job change, I now use him.2. I drew the plan for the potential HD purchase. The only person there I trusted to do plans was the guy above.
It constantly amazes me that people think that HD and Lowes will give them good service. Why would anyone expect it? They are large volume and low markup, ALL businesses that operate that way are going to be the same way. They are the McDonalds of hardware, once you understand that you are going to get food with low nutritional value and can't get a steak the sooner you get over it. Their features (late hours, easy to browse for what you really need, good prices on commodities and raw materials for a low-volume purchase (like a homeowner)) more than make up for their down sides (undeducated staff, poor support of special orders, sketchy quality of certain items compared to what you can get at a commercial source), once you get realistic about what you can expect!My neighbors have a "custom" kitchen done my HD and then complain about how things turned out. Many of them never thought to look for a local installer or contractor to handle it for them ("I can't trust just any name out of the phone book, but HD must be careful about their reputation...") is some of the illogic that I hear.Brother, you get what you pay for.I am tired of hearing people whine about HD and Lowes because of COURSE they are going to be that way. What makes you think the high school kid at the counter would know any more about your project than you do?In response to the original poster not getting return phone calls: it has been discussed here many times. Some builders are great and are too busy for new business, some never even advertise because they have such good repeat business and word of mouth. On the other hand, some are terrible business men and don't manage their time wisely enough to drum up the business they need and have difficult swings of "too much" and then "too little" work, and some are just busy RIGHT NOW and if you called at another time would be the contractor of your dreams. No easy answers to this, except tough work to find the good guys in your area, cultivate them and wait for their down time to take care of you.Norm
So many companies are so busy and have been so busy for so long that they just seem to think that the work will always be there. So they have a hum-ho attitude towards anyone they don't know or do business with on a regular basis. It just seems to be a good idea to make your ties with very few so that they are available when you need them. Business friendships can be formed in the process so that you have an "edge" on the rest of the field. Another comment is that so many businesses are spread so thin on qualified help to be available to answer questions when they are in use running the current client base. I'm sure that you already know this Sonny, but that does not help with the frustration of trying to run your business. GW
One that gets me is when businesses don't even have an answering machine on their phone. You would think you could at least get a message with their hours.
I went to a "counter top " shop .Wanted a price on a window sill to be made of the quartz type of solid surface . Was told that they do not make them , but would call the mfgr. and call with a quote the next day . Over a month now no price . Went to HD asked the price and if I could get a sheet of SS counter top . I was told that I would hear from them the next day . two and a half weeks now .
Don,Don,Don... Save yourself some time, aggravation and money and call a local sheet metal shop. You will propably need one of the larger ones because the smaller ones will propably not have the capacity to work with 4b 20 ga. stainless without marring it. You will propably be pleased with this approach and if you need help with a fabrication drawing send me and email and I can teach you their shop symbols because they dont want to see a pretty pencil drawing that is difficult to interpret. This is definetly a place for pros by pros.
Justin Tischer
Vertigo Construction Corp.
Ment solid surface not stainless steel . I have access to all of the sheet metal tools and the stainless. Thanks for the comments
If I was in HD - or any other store - I would expect the sales associate to continue talking to me rather than answer the phone and give their time to someone who hadn't made the effort to come in person. And surely the odds are that the in-person shopper is more likely to be ready to buy than the guy on the phone. Having said that, it is common courtesy and good business to promptly return phone calls. No business small or large is guaranteed a living.
Wally
I would expect the sales associate to continue talking to me rather than answer the phone and give their time to someone who hadn't made the effort to come in person.
A few months ago, I was ordering several windows from a Lowes store and the associate kept getting interrupted by phone calls. After the third call, he apologized profusly and told me that the store manager insisted that they do that. From my point of view, it's no different than someone cutting into the checkout line.
I agree with you both.
I have taken my time to come to their store and wait on them to wait on me . They take phone calls while Im talking to them expecting me to wait on them talk to the customer that merely picked up the phone and expected service imediately.
Tim Mooney
I believe that these attitudes are caused by either laziness or stupidity. Just because these 'businesses' had customers yesterday, they think they will have customers tomorrow, no matter how badly they behave towards potential new customers. Trouble is, they are probably right, and that ain't right
John
Sonny,
just because they don't do business the way YOU want them to---doesn't mean they aren't businesses.
They may be very successfull businesses-----but their definition of success may be DIFFERENT than yours. If they don't meet your approval---deal with someone else. they aren't obligated to do things YOUR way.
BTW-----my phones exist for MY convenience---not my customers convenience.
Stephen
>>BTW-----my phones exist for MY convenience---not my customers convenience.And the name of your business is? I wouldn't want to call you by mistake.I don't know about yours, but my church isn't a hotel for the holy, it's a hospital for sinners
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Unusually testy today Bob,
are you feeling O.K. ?
Stephen
BTW-----my phones exist for MY convenience---not my customers convenience
I take it you don't advertise, then? It's an unusual business that DOESN'T want customers to call, but I know there are some. It's just a different way of doing business.
Very fair observation , Cairo. You are on the right track.
Less and less advertising---but more and more focused.
and in actuality----I want VERY few customers to call----and the ones that do call will already be educated as to what they want and what they can expect-----and they will be very pleased to do so. They do NOT expect that I will be standing by on the off chance that someone will call----I have better things to do.
Not trying to be all things to all people------- but it's been years since I answered a ringing phone.( I used to try to answer ALL calls-----even to the extent of call forwarding to a cell phone so I could answer when working rooftop--------but I came to understand that the telephone was a HUGE timewaster)
Stephen
Oh, BTW------back in the early---mid 80's I was working as a industrial chrome plater-------we served a lot of plastic injection mold shops, machine shops,tool and die shops.One shop we did business with was open from 7:00 am untill 3:30 pm----they served one specific customer----and were totally unconcerned with attracting new business-----no interest in answering the phone. At the same time in history my wife worked for a florist where someone had to be available to answer the phone from 8:00 am untill 6:00 pm-----------2 different business where the phone had 2 very different levels of importance. Both were businesses.
I agree with you.
I think there may be several sources of this sort of problem.
1. Over-extended employees - some managers take a "you should be able to everything I throw at you" attitude with inadequate monitoring of whether all of the work can, in fact, be successfully completed.
In such cases, the employees tend to decide for themselves which activities they can let slide, and the decision they make may just be ill-informed, or (perhaps more likely) based on what is least likely to be discovered.
I witnessed that sort of thing on a wide scale when a major bank I worked for went through widespread downsizing.
Poor training is often another consequence of understaffing
2. Small business people who become successful through their trade-skills and accomplishments, and essentially "Peter-principle" themselves into a level of business which exceeds their capabilities.
3. The "fat and happy" principle - as some have already pointed out.
4. Kids these days. {G} They're going to hell in a handbasket. Always have been, always will be {G}
I don't know about yours, but my church isn't a hotel for the holy, it's a hospital for sinners
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
It's what Woody Allen says..."90% of success in life is just showing up!".
Answering the phone on the first two rings - while it sound "silly" to many - is the absolute BEST way to get new customers and keep the ones you have. So many people spend gobs of money on marketing and then let the calls go to a machine, or cell phone voice mail, or whatever. Time-starved people these days are craving a live voice that can resolve their issue NOW!
- Rob
Rob,
you have a valid point---for a lot of businesses. Like Utility companies.
On the other hand------I track these things in my little operation carefully
and I know that on a given day my phone will ring 10-12 times. 10 or 11 of those calls will be telemarketers--------1 or 2 of the calls will be prospective customers---most of whom were referred to me by previous customers
Those prospective customers will be instructed to leave their name, phone number , a brief message, and the TIME they would like to recieve a return phone call. It doesn't matter to me if they want the return call at 3:00 am or 3:00 pm----I will call them at EXACTLY that time----and in that conversation IF needed I will arrange an appointment for an EXACT time to meet them personally----and I will be there at that EXACT time--------------but a surprizing ratio of business can be transacted NEVER meeting the customer---and with only one direct phone call
My favorite all time message left on my answering machine---" Thanks for being able to take care of my problem so quickly, Mr. Hazlett------there is an electric outlet on the northside of the house and I am leaving a check for you under the Virgin Mary in the back yard"-----the Virgin Marys' face and hands had been lovingly painted a delightfull Mocha color---ya don't see THAT every day!!!
Personally---I think small businesses should take delight in their flexibility to reflect the owners personality----instead of attempting to be a poor imitation of a Fortune 500 behemoth.
Best wishes, Stephen
Time-starved people these days are craving a live voice that can resolve their issue NOW!
I'm in total agreement with you there. There may be many here who don't need to answer the phone, but as far as I am concerned, all my work comes by phone and a prompt, live answer starts things off on the right track
John
And if you don't have a receptionist, do what I did, have a daughter.
I usually have my cell on me ...
worked about 10 months last year in a basement ....
5 days a week .... 8 to 4 or longer ...
didn't have cell reception past the entry doors ....
90% of the time I was out of range ....
my voicemail picked up immediately and buzzed thru about 50% of the time ....
the rest of the time ... I had to go out to the truck for a few minutes for everything to catch up.
So much for the "answer by the second ring" theory ....
BTW ... I have voicemail ... and even if I do hear thye cell ring/vibrate and I'm running a tool of up on a ladder ... I'm not planning on losing a finger or falling to my death because someone can't figure out how to leave a message.
and don't block your number or make it private ...
Those never get picked up .... I wait for the voicemail.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
All depends on what kind of image you are trying to project. What one caller may see as a busy guy whose work is worth waiting for, another might see as a one man band that can't afford secretarial help.
I prefer not to leave my potential customer with that choice, and I answer the phone. Not necessarily on the second ring, though........
John
has nothing to do with the image projected ...
if the phone is on my body ...
and my body is in a poor reception area ...
that's life!
other wise they could call the machine at home and wait till I get back there ...
first it was call within 24 hours ...
then call back that same day ...
now people want an answer immediately.
I got news for those that need an answer immediately ...
that's called "poor planning".
Right answers take time. Usually the person demanding "immediate satisfaction" is someone I don't want to work with anyway ...
we're not saving lives here ... this isn't an ER ...
there's no reason someone can't wait for anyone to get back to them ...
no one is that important ... or should I say ... more important than the task at hand and/or the current customer ...
being at the beck and call is over rated ... I'm good ... sometimes you just have to wait.
I do it all the time ... a good sub can't make it right away ... which I never "expect" anyway ... I tell the customer we're just goinna have to wait ....
it'll be worth it in the end.
Too many people think they're too damn busy and too damn important anymore ...
all amounts to poor planning ....
I'm teaching my 3 year old patience, remodeling customers would do themselves a favor to learn the same ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
If you are out of cell phone range then obviously you can't answer the phone. If you don't have somebody who can answer the phone for you then that is not an option either. If you have plenty of work then you don't need to worry about it anyway.
It does seem to me thay you are misinterpreting the need to answer calls. It isn't because the customer is impatient, like a 3 year old child, it's because if he's working his way through a list of numbers,and he get's to you and your voicmail comes on, what's he going to do? He's going to go to the next number. If that guy answers then he's going to have an edge on you in getting that job. But maybe you don't need the work so it doesn't matter anyway.
John
The small percentage of calls that I fail to answer (amoung the very few calls I get in the first place) leave a message. And judging by the comments they make when I call them back, no one else is bothering to call them back.Don't know why. Things are pretty slow around here.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
Rich,
I am excited for you------ I hope you are on the verge of an import discovery.
Your prospect calls 5-10 people------you return their call PROMPTLY
You make an appointment and show up EXACTLY when you say you will( you make that appointment for a time that you CAN show up exactly on time)
YOU can now set your price and terms with absolute confidence because you know with a high degree of certainty you are the only " bidder"-------a "reasonable price" will be self defeating----you have already demonstrated that you are a rare and valuable commodity.
You will then deliver your product(service) EXACTLY as you described it to your customer---even better than described if possible.
Then you will go home and happily wait for the next customer----who will likely have got your name from a previously satisfied customer( " I have the guy to solve your problem---Rich Beckman----you won't believe this guy----- he is like a throwback to a different era-----he actually returns your calls----he is fanatical about showing up on time---and his work---well maybe it cost little bit more than I was expecting---but man oh man is he worth every penney---blah,blah,blah.........)
Don't define your customer base as " anyone who can dial a phone"-----then you are selling and pricing to the lowest common denominator.
You don't need ALL the possible customers-----just enough of the RIGHT customers.
I am really happy for you Rich. It takes a while to develope----but it is definitely worth it.
Very best wishes,
Stephen
Stephen,I'm glad you are so excited!!! LOL!!!!That is certainly the kind of situation I am trying to create. It hasn't happened yet!The guys at the lumberyard constantly harp that around here all anyone wants is cheap, cheap, cheap! I know that there must be plenty of customers who would love to pay more for dependable, quality work. I just have to find them.In the meantime, I do appreciate your support!Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
Rich, one thing that helped me grow/raise my rates was advertising. Word of mouth is great but I found that I needed enough cutomers of the right type to get the word of mouth response.
Finding the right place to advertise is the key. I try each form for six weeks and monitor the type of calls and from who they come in from. If I am getting what I want I continue, if not I drop it and try something else. DanT
Rich,
the only thing I have the slightest worry about on your behalf is the population level in your area.
Are there enough people at the right strata-----and the strata doesn't have to be terribly high----just the right one for YOU.
what works for me---is my neighborhood and the people who typically live here.Accountants, nurses, computer professionals, teachers, insurance people, policemen, firemen, retired factory workers etc. modest neighborhood---everyone living within their means( they could live in a pricier sub-urb----but then they would be stretching and reaching)
Most of my work comes from that neighborhood----directly or indirectly. If I am not working physically within the confines of the neighborhood-----then I am working for someone who was likely refered to me by someone in the neighborhood----and so on. with very rare exceptions----any referall will also fall within the neighborhood "Value system"
Now------a few doors away from me is a guy I sub some things OUT to. He is totally unable to sell to the same type of market------he can do the work in it----just can't sell to it. He has got a lot of tatoos, etc. and no verbal confidence with the customer.( Very confident in his own sphere---with his crew and buddies----but just" hesitant "with the customers. Unfortuneately for the sub----the people he relates well with are welders, lower level factory workers, machinists, auto mechanics etc. Note that those people may make every bit the same money MY people make---------but his people do things themselves---for better or for worse. My nurses and accountants are delighted to pay someone else to climb up on the roof!
We have a neighboring little town that I have NEVER been able to sell in. Never Ever. At one time I had a sub that sold VERY well there-----the people in that town just gobbled up every thing he had to sell. I figured it out finally. Tony had this slight " good ole boy" corn pone accent that he would really play up for those folks----they really related well to him. apparently they couldn't STAND me-------I suspect I reminded them of their lower level yuppie bosses. Tony couldn't sell too well in my neighborhood either.
Now, I know I have leaned on this topic a little to hard---and I apologize for being such a wind bag------but one last thing! LOL
15-20 years ago I had this quaint little idea in my head of what I wanted to be. kind of like a 20th century version of the village carpenter----the neighborhood carpenter. then I lost track of that vision.5 or 6 years ago I started tracking closely where my advertising dollars went, where my work actually came from, where the money came from vs. who ate up all my time unproductively. by about 3 years ago I had enough stats gathered to re-discover that I had essentially achieved what I had hoped for 15-20 years ago----i just didn't realize it untill i had it proven ,historically on paper. Maybe in reality I leaned a little too hard towards being the neighborhood ROOFER instead of the carpenter----but thats fairly easily remedied----I now just stop turning away some of the carpentry work and do less of the roofing with my own hands. For 10 or 12 years or so I had acted on the illconcieved assumption that the people in this neighborhood were just a little too cheap for my style-----but when I plotted it out i found that for me---they were really a comfortable little gold mine.
That realization is what gave me the discipline to start ruthlessly culling out the time and money wasters.
what's that old saying " it's not having what you want----it's wanting what you have"
absolute best wishes to you Rich,
Stephen
Stephen, don't ever apologize for being long winded. There aren't many people that post a lot, that have as much great advice as you do. Your specific business model is a perfect example for most one man shows. Everyone here can learn from you, even if they have to tweak it to fit their business/locale. Your grasp and execution of the most basic needs of the service industry are exemplary.
Now...if you could only figure out how to replace yourself...
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
What Blue just said. Don't ever apologize for your "windy" posts!!You make a great point that probably isn't made here enough. A niche can be something other than what you do, it can also be who you do it for.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
I don't have that much work ...
I do need that next job ...
but ...
if someone basis their decision on who answers the phone quickest ...
I didn't want them as a customer.
right now ... I'm trying to upswing a bad year ...
I need more work.
what I don't need is more bad work ...
I'm hungry ... I'm still not cheap.
Customers that take the first answer are bottom feeders ...
I'm not missing much.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Customers that take the first answer are bottom feeders ...
I'm not missing much.
No they aren't, people who take the lowest price are bottom feeders. People who want a live answer when they ring a business are being entirely reasonable. Maybe it's different in the States, but in the UK a business that couldn't answer its phone would be seen as a one man band, possibly a good person to deal with, possibly not, under-resourced definitely.
When I've been looking for contractors I've often had to use advertising, local, yellow pages etc, to find people. When I ring someone and get a voicemail announcement I might leave a message, more likely I'll just go on to the next number until I get someone I can talk to, arrange for them to visit and quote. This is not because I am impatient, or unsympathetic to the guy whose phone is out of range, but because I want to get this job under way. A live answer shows that the firm is big enough to deal with my requirements. The impression I get from a voicemail announcement is that this guy doesn't need the work.
I accept that there are many here who are simply unable, by force of circumstances, to provide a live answer to incoming calls. But to suggest that a customer who wants a live answer is not a good customer is sour grapes
John
John,
You are missing 2 very important points ( at least 2)
#1-----you are assuming that the culture and reasoning that may be a given---on your side of the pond----is applicable over here.
But in reality-----for the kind of work Jeff does or I do-----a one man band may be EXACTLY what the customer wants----and they know that ahead of time. In my case---they are often looking for my " one man band" because it is located within a very special 15 block radius----and because on the BIG DAY I will arrive with 12 trained workers if I need to.
#2-------- I doubt very much if either Jeff or I am particularly interested in a potential customer who is just " going down a list" one number after another. Even if they do leave a message----that particular type of prospect is a very low probability of actually resulting in a sale.
Personally, I choose to try and focus my time and attention on prospective customers who have VERY short lists----maybe just me and one or two other guys that they have been referred to. Often it's just a list of one---me.----------Those kind of customers leave messages, and those messages are returned at exactly the time requested.
for me, pre-qualifying prospective customers is one of the most important ways to increase sales,lower overhead hours and improve dollars per hour earned.
Requiring a prospective customer to simply leave a message is the first step in" prequalifying" . Why on earth would I even prepare an estimate for someone who can't even commit enough to leave a message? Imagine a prospect just " going down a list"-------I am not going to leap into action and drive about town giving estimates and waisting time just because they rang my phone. Commit---leave a message---now I can help you.
I won't answer a ringing phone even when I am sitting right next to it.
Stephen
Stephen, I will rely on you to know your own market best. For me, though, I'm going to continue to answer my phone when it rings
John
No offense taken ,John.
I am wondering if you have the same kind of problem with telemarketers over there?
Also-----do you have the same kind of problems with time wasting " tire kickers"-------prospective customers that aren't serious possibilities ?
for instance----consider 3 typical possible phone calls
1) " Hey man, I have a roof that's been leaking since about july, my wife says maybe we otta try and get it fixed or something before winter gets hear for real----what's something like that gonna cost and we want it before Christmas"
2)"I need a new roof on my house-----I already bought the shingles---they are stacked in my garage-----how much ya want just to nail 'em on."
3) Hi, Mr. Hazlett??? My name is Joe Breiding, I have a problem with my roof. I work with Sue Edgington and she says I should definitely talk to you about this. you can reach me anytime today untill about 11:30 this morning at my work number 123-1234 and I am at home after about 5:45 at 234-2345.
Only one of those calls----#3----- is a real prospect. He will be called promptly. Calls #1 & 2 will be returned the same day---but at my convenience. Perhaps they left bad messages and I misjudged them----but in all likelyhood I will sit down at 6:45 pm---call those 1 & 2----confirm that they aren't right for me and it will take less than 2 minutes each.
And---as a bonus my day won't be held hostage by 10 telemarketers trying to get me to switch long distance phone services,switch utility providers, or pitch me "an amazing oportunity in Biotech"
and when I do talk to #3, I will be rested, polite, energetic, enthusiastic about solving his problem-------and I would not be able to do that if I wasted my energy being at the beck and call of #'s 1 & 2
#3 pays my bills---so he gets my attention, 1 & 2 ???? they just drain my resources.
Very best wishes to you,
Stephen
I am wondering if you have the same kind of problem with telemarketers over there?
Yes, we do. I've registered on the UK equivalent of the no call list, and it's not as bad as it used to be
Last time I discussed telemarketers on this forum it got quite interesting, and intense, especially as it turned out that a well-know poster here used to be a telemarketer and could see nothing wrong with what they do
This thread has illustrated the different perspectives of the various posters. My advertising is pretty specific, it says what I do and gives an indication of the price, so my only problem when people ring is to ensure that I do nothing to put them off. I can see, though, that your problem with callers is quite different. The examples you gave are illuminating.
One quite popular type of tv program over here is when they show their viewers the risks of dealing with what are referred to here as 'cowboy' builders. The format is- they set up a house , install umpteen hidden video cameras, set up various faults with the plumbing, cellars, woodwork, all sorts of things. They have an expert analyse what needs to be done.
Then they call various contractors to come and do the work. The ones they feature on the programs are the ones who
rip the customers off by doing far more work than is needed, or rather not doing it but charging anyway
**** in the kitchen sink
fail to find the original fault
get paid for the job then fail to turn up and do the work
etc etc etc
There are also programs about high-pressure home-improvements salesmen and the stuff they do to get the customers' money
We also get (like you) programs that show how quick, cheap and easy it is to do our own home improvements!#
Anyway, with all the above and the fact that I haven't been in business in this area long enough to build up good referral trade, I need to do everything I can to create the right impression. It seems to be working, too
Best wishes to you, too (and to Jeff, who must be alright really as he likes cats)
John
LOL, I am glad to here we all get the same calls from the exact same people, evidently no matter what our location is. DanT
I know this is 'Fine Homebuilding' but since Sonny started the thread in the vain of a businessman contacting another business I figured I'd chip in. On commercial projects where the contractor/Project Manager/foreman might be being paid to work during normal business hours it is a big benefit to have someone answering the phone during normal business hours or at least returning the calls the same day or during business hours that week. There are lots of high-end trim/paint/roof jobs being done in restaurants, offices, etc.. that are going to hacks that have the common sense to return a call in a reasonable manner. If someone is doing work on a commercial project(sub, GC, etc.) they aren't getting paid to answer the work calls at 7PM so a prompt reply or even an answering service paging the tradesman so he knows to call back can mean getting an in on some very lucrative work. I'm not saying that someone should carry a cell and answer every call I'm merely saying that arranging a set time to place a call and conduct business can be the deciding factor in getting work, and an answering service can be an economical way for someone to feel they might have a chance to get through to the business in question.
-Ray
"Last time I discussed telemarketers on this forum it got quite interesting, and intense, especially as it turned out that a well-know poster here used to be a telemarketer and could see nothing wrong with what they do"
Yes virginia .... there is a santa claus.
That .. and I was indeed a telemarketer at one point in my life ... and I still see no harm in that "profession" ... that ... and I was damn good at it too!
Hated the job ... loved the money.
Maybe that's why for I don't jump to answer the phone.
At home or at work. Like Stephen said .... everyone always askes ... "how do I prequalify a lead .... then discount the fact that waiting for the voicemail is one very powerful way to do just that.
That ... and seeing as how I'm not on any list the potential customers can just thumb their way thru ... I'm not missing anyone "urgent" ...
by simple virtue of the fact I'm too damn poor to advertise ... I gotta get by on 100% referal. And referals leave voicemails ....
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Man Jeff..........stop it! I have done some fun things in my life too that I don't admit to anymore. You don't have to tell everyone about that. I mean man.....next thing you will do is say you finished drywall corners with caulk or something. :-) DanT
I almost fell off my chair laughing at Numbers one and two. All too familiar.
I live in an area where most people are already squeezing their last dime to stay in the house. SO, this collection of yuppies will pay the laid off Mack Trucks or Bethlahem steel guy half of what I would have wanted. They don't care that he showed up in an old station wagon with a bucket full of Ryobi tools. It's all they could afford.
So, I used to drive about an hour to any job I had. Thtas where the customers that paid lived. Thats where I went.
For three months I tracked my calls and the number of actually jobs landed versus calls returned. On average I spent three hours per day on my cell phone answering or returning phone calls. The damn thing was strapped to my hip all day and I spent almost one hour each way coming and going to work returning phone calls. Answering the phone everytime it would make that little ring-ring sound cost me money. I could point to no noticable increase in business.
After that I started throw my phone on the dashboard of the truck when I got out to work. I would check it twice during the day and return all calls that night. I found that the customers who were going to spend money would rather have the conversation when neither of us were rushed. It gave me the time to make a little small talk with them and set the tone of the transaction.
From a consumer's perspective the other thing I'd recommend is placing some sort of "qualifier(s)" on your outgoing voice mail. Tell the prospective consumer what you are good at, and perhaps a brief list (the items you get questioned about most) of things you don't do. Also, if you do high end work, state that clearly. That way anyone shopping for price will drop off and not leave a voice mail. Making better use of their time...and more importantly...yours.
- Rob
Jeff, no one's doubting what works for you. But if you look at the grand scale you'd see that consumers want quick response. Examples...
- the local burger joints in the 50's thought diners didn't mind waiting 15 minutes for a good burger...and then McDonald's came along.
- what about upscale you say? They still wait, right? If so then why does Applebees, Chilis, TGI Fridays, etc. push their "TO GO" menu so heavily? Because people want to save time. (and forget about calling them, leaving a message and trusting that they'll call back so you can place your order).
- what about REALLY upscale? Now you see fine chophouses selling their steaks online! You don't even have to drag your butt to the restaurant anymore...they'll send it to you!
Jeff, you're a 19th century craftsman doing just fine in the 21st century. But the world is changing around you. Fortunately for you, and many others on this site, there will always be demand for quality services. But beware the day someone offers quality service AND great customer service (i.e. they don't think "I answer the phone if I can get to it"). Right now your industry hasn't been drastically affected by top-notch customer service providers. But my opinion is that somewhere, deep in the bowels of Home Depot, Lowes or some other similar company, someone is thinking up a strategy to do just that. Everyone here seems to chuckle at HD, but if they want to dominate a niche...they do it.
- Rob
Rob,
you make some excellent points. In fact----if a WELL finaced organization wanted to be the McDonalds of home remodeling----that might be an excellent business plan. On the other hand, Sears has tried something similar for decades in ,roofing, siding, chainlink fences etc.( and failed) Mom & Pop businesses in those trades flourish----despite Sears, Home Depot, Lowes etc.
A few years ago there were a lot of business articles in the press RE: the cancer that IS Walmart.----The devestation that Walmart often brings to small town business districts. Some of those articles went on to look at businesses that were NOT killed by Walmart----despite the obvious possibility.
Most of the businessmen who survived Walmart competition said they decided to survive by NOT competing against Walmarts STRENGTH.(Price) They would succeed by concentrating on aspects of the business that Walmart couldn't POSSIBLY handle.
Looking at a Lowes or HomeDepot organization-------can Jeff or I compete with a showroom? No---so we won't offer one. But I can do better---since I concentrate on one neighborhood I can very, VERY often walk a customer a few doors away from their home and show them a project I did last year----and then walk them a block away and show them a roof I did 15 years ago----and we will look at how well it is holding up. If I choose----along the way we can discuss how nice the new library built in neighborhood is, we can discuss how well their grand daughter is doing in my wifes 4th grade class, how well a grandson is doing on a local high school basketball team( the grandson I coached in 5th grade), we can discuss how well the prospects son or daughter is doing---by name---since I went to school with them 25 years ago---------------we can do any number of things that Home Depot could never do.
Unlike home depot,I can't answer the phone by the second ring----but I can show up to my appointment EXACTLY on time----Home Depot can never do that consistently. Home Depot delivers an IN STOCK item at a low price----but botches special orders. If needed I can reproduce a molding common in the neighborhood---but that hasn't been commercially available in stock for 70 years.
If Jeff and I concentrate on excelling at areas home depot can't handle---because of its 'size and uniformity we will do nicely.
you know, domino's will DELIVER a decent pizza at a decent price. On the other hand I bought a pizza a few weeks ago------we drove 20 minutes across town to the pizza shop,the LINE was out the door---and stretched down the sidewalk. We waited over 15 minutes for a takeout order. I am sure there were over 50 people HAPPILY waiting---half for a seat in the restauraunt---half for a carry out order----why were they so happy and willing to wait------Because sometimes, in this town, only a LUIGIs' Pizza will do.
you can buy a special cake from any bakery---and almost any large grocery store. but in some ethnic groups here-----for your daughters wedding---it simply HAS to be a NINNI Cake ( personally I find 'em kind of bland---but for some people they are the end all and be all of wedding cakes) for another group it was a TRADGEDY when the couple who ran "Bud's Bakery" retired without someone to take over.
I am not a wine drinker---but my wife is. We could buy some acceptable bottles of plonk from a grocery store 5 minutes away------but tomorrow we will drive across town to the West Point market to buy wine for 2 different holiday parties we are hosting----because of their knowledgeable , fanatical staff who will happily walk us through a huge variety of possibilities and suggest quality products PERFECT for us that we would never have even known existed.
The Home Depot business model may well be an excellent business plan-----but it is very limiting and constrictive.
Stephen
caulk on drywall corners.....
You mean, theres another way?? :-)
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
"Caulk on drywall corners".......?? What a concept!! Guess I'll return that 5 gallon bucket of spackle. - lol
Your references to McDonalds, and, indeed, TGIFridays and the others, in a forum hosted by "Fine Homebuilding" is pretty funny. If, as a builder, you want to build the equivalent of a McDonalds burger for the equivalent of a McDonalds customer, I sincerely doubt you even know that "Fine Homebuilding" exists.
As a person who had a house built within the last two years by a reputable GC, it doesn't bother me at all that I called and left messages, and he called back. My theory is, if you're any good at all, you are probably busy. If you are always available to answer the phone, you must not be very busy, and what does that say about your work? Everyone else seems to be busy, even the hacks who have to buy back houses and rebuild the basements. If you have a secretary / receptionist who isn't your spouse, then you've probably got some extra overhead, and that'll be reflected in your prices. If it is your spouse, then you're probably income splitting, and that makes sense.
Equating to building a house to a meal is a good comparison. Most of the people I know expect a "good" meal to be a leisurely one, in a good setting, with good service...and they expect their houses to be well built, with careful details and lots of thought. Speed does not help either.
>>Equating to building a house to a meal is a good comparison. Most of the people I know expect a "good" meal to be a leisurely one, in a good setting, with good service...and they expect their houses to be well built, with careful details and lots of thought. Speed does not help either.<<
Sure, and it takes three months to hand build a $300,000 Ferrari. Yet I just toured the Ford Rouge (Detroit area) truck manufacturing plant the other day where they turn cold-pressed steel into a finished truck within 18 hours.
I'm not here to argue that an experienced, veteran tradesman with a following and referrals can take his time answering the phone...or perhaps letting a call slide into voice mail. But look around you, the world wants speed & service. Yes they'd like low prices too but, leaving out the Wal-Mart crowd, most Americans desire speed and service.
You probably like to sit and read the paper for an hour every day too, huh? I used to enjoy that as well. But I, like many others in this fast-paced country, no longer have the time for such "luxury". Have you seen the #'s for newspaper circulation over the last ten years? It's pathetic. Most people find they get all the news they want by reading cnn.com for five minutes or watching the "top ten" on ESPN before heading out to work.
I know, I know...you'll come back with some analogy to reading "War & Peace" and taking the time to enjoy it. However it's just not reality. You're peeing in the wind.
By the way, my GC returns my calls promptly as well - he answers about 50% of them on the first two rings and the rest he responds to within four hours. That's fine with me. However he's building nice custom homes in half the time it used to take him five years ago. Again, service and speed are not mutually exclusive.
- Rob
Needed my roof fixed last June.
I called 9 businesses with ads in the yellow pages. Left 8 messages, got one outright "not interested".
Of the 8 messages, I got two return calls. One of them told me "I'll call you back in 15 minutes." I heard from him 3 days later, and he told me, "I'll call you back in 5 minutes." I'm still waiting.
Second returned call was over a week after I had left the message. He did send a guy out to estimate, he did get the job. I have no idea if I got any kind of competetive price, he was the only alternative to getting my overlarge backside up on a 12/12 roof to do a hack job.
Seems like a whole lot of people are wasting money advertising.
That's an industry ripe for some competition, around here at least.
I agree with Steve and Jeff on this but for different reasons. I am too small to afford a receptionist and since my wife makes more than I do I don't think that will change.
My personality is such that the best way to get a rude or dioriented response is to call me in the middle of a task going good or bad. I simply don't do that well.
So we have voice mail which I check 3-5 times a day. If it is a new customer we return the call that afternoon or evening and make an appointement. If it is a call from someone with a question, warranty work etc we call back as soon as we can.
Only have had 2 folks in 5 years complain. They were nicer when I explained that adding $10 an hour to our rate would allow a receptionist. DanT
We all pay the price this time of year. Sometimes we even get a rebate.
Keep trying till you find someone willing to work for you. Chances are they will do the best job.