I am looking at the possibility of putting in a fairly long driveway and am considering useing asphalt. It will serve two purposes paving the dirt road which leads to a home I plan on selling, thus making it more appealing to the buyer. Secondly, I will still own property behind that home and it will give me paved access to that land. I am thinking of 15′ wide path by 300′ long. I am wondering what price to expect for this and what to look for in the bids I receive, such as minimum thickness of aggregate base. This project is in the Eastern North Carolina area.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Fine Homebuilding is excited to be the official media partner of the 2024 Building Science Symposium series! This event offers builders, tradesmen, architects, designers and suppliers to discuss topics ranging…
Featured Video
Video: Build a Fireplace, Brick by BrickHighlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
I'm going to assume that you just want to put down a little base and shape it to a comfortable ride and pave it. This is a private/semi-private drive and won't be incorporated into the county road system. There is an easement that will permit your use but there is no dedicated right-of- way. One of these days you may need a load of concrete or topsoil delivered and it needs to be strong enough for the occasional sanitation truck.
Best case---Use 8" of crushed limestone aggregate with no stone larger than 1 and 1/2 inches thick. If he will, have the paving contractor to spread the stone using his asphalt spreader. If he has access to a pug mill the stone could be mixed with the proper amount of moisture and placed to line and grade with the spreader. he would compact it with his vibratory roller. Place it in two each four inch lifts. If it will not be under traffic and he can pave it as soonas it dries, you can omit the prime coat. Here's the math:
Stone weighs 110 lbs/square yard per inch of thickness therefore: 8" x110lbs =880 lbs/sy
1 ton equals 2000 lbs
15 w x 300'l = 4500 sf
divide 4500 by 9= 500 sy
multiply 500 sy x 880 lbs= 440,000 lbs of stone
divide 440,000lbs by 2000= 220 tons of stone required
Stone around here costs about $2-2.50 /ton
trucking costs 4-4.50/ton per 60 mile one way haul. For a small job like yours If thepaving company will place it as above and you could get it for $15 bucks a ton that would be a bargain. Total cost for base would be 220 tons x 15= $3300.
Absolute minimum aggregate thickness should be 6". The math for that should total $2475.
You really should let the stone extend past the edge of the asphalt 2' on each side for a total width of base course of 19 feet. This will keep you from breaking off the edge of the asphalt due to lack of support. If I had the option of going wider rather than deeper, I'd go with the extra width.
Ok Let's talk about Asphalt:
Asphalt weighs the same as crushed limestone because(around here) that is really all it is with liquid asphalt mixed in but the size of the stone is much smaller. I prefer type III. No stone larger than 1/4". You may not have much choice depending on what the batch plant is running on any given day. Type two (II) surface is ok too, it may provide a little better traction since the stone is jsut a bit larger.
For your application 3" thick over an 8" base is ideal.
As above 500 sy x 330 lbs=165,000 lbs divided by 2000= 82.5 tons
Ok lets say it costs $40./ ton in place. Most asphalt is delivered in 15 ton loads so bump it up to 90 tons=$3600.
Let's be practical. If you will swear to limit traffic to just personal vehicles including the occasional UPS truck and if you need concrete, you will have it delivered in 2-3 yard loads and you won't have it delivered during the winter and all you are really after is to just to make your drive better than it was, you can forget about the base ,have them pave your existing drive way with a couple inches and that at 220lbs/sy should not run more than 55 tons. Remember though the 15 ton truck size so make it 60 tons and you will have enough for a 20x20 turn around area. Total cost $2400. With abuse and neglect, you may have to put another inch and a half on it in 15 years.
Don't use black base which is between an aggregate base course and surface course unless you intend to put two inches of surface over it. Covered with surface it has a higher strength in thinner lifts than the crushed stone aggregate. It is typically the same cost as asphalt but you need less of it. it is very porous and can in one winter go straight to hell and be less durable than plain crushed stone.
If I have made your eyes glaze over with all this, I apologize. If I haven't told you exactly what you wanted to know' give me a shout---
Absolutely perfect, that was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the information.
Jiggs: A little glazing over never hurt anyone! Does it make a difference whether you use granite or limestone for the base? I live about 5 miles from a granite quarry and can get that stuff pretty cheap.
We are being driven nuts by a drive that keeps getting washboarded by the UPS truck. Fortunately, we have a neighbor who moonlights with a New Holland "Bobcat." Paving is in our future. We had an asphalt contractor wander by here about 2 months ago offering a discount on a paving job because he claimed to have an overage of asphalt from a commercial job; the asphalt plant had a minimum buy of 200 tons, & he only needed about 120, so he had 80 tons to account for. We are pretty rural, so you don't truck asphalt from the next closest plant because of distance. Does pass the common sense test, or was it a scam?
DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
Don: You did the right thing in passing. Let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt and say that he had a mix that the plant was not running that day and he just couldn't wait. So the operator tells him the only way he will make it is for a 200 ton minimum order. I don't know of any contractor who would tell them to run it and hope he could find a buyer for the balance of 80 tons. That is a $3000 gamble. I don't know what his game might have been except that it was cold asphalt or had gotten wet in the truck or that he was just trying to finess you into buying it with what he hoped you would see as a bargain.
I would wait until I was ready and have one of the good guys to come pave it for me. Talk to the guys at the asphalt plant first. They are in the business of laying as well as selling the stuff and if their crews and trucks are not covered up they will be happy to lay it or recommend someone they know will do a spectacular job. They will sell you no more than you need to do the job and you can be pretty sure the stuff will be hot when it gets there. One word of caution, even the best of them get caught with a cold load at the end of the day. If I was absolutley forced to take it I would make them spread it as thin as the paver will lay it and then back up to the starting point and cover it with the hot mix. At 325 degrees, I have always thought that it reconstitutes the cold stuff and should be just fine. To be doubly sure, have them spray Tack on it. You know what that is, that's the stuff you just drove your new white Silverado through.
If you need a stone base course sometimes they have scrap rock which is perfectly good stone of varying gradation small to large or maybe a bit heavy on fine aggregate and adulterated with small amounts of scrap asphalt. Sometimes the plant will give you the stone if you will just pay for the hauling. If it is trucked to your place, tell the driver where you want to start and ask him to scatter it along the road. Its best to back him all the way in and let him scatter it as he goes out. That makes it easier for the next load. Your buddy with the New holland could make it shine in no time. Don't pay the driver, pay the plant.
Based purely on economics you cite, I would not hesitate to use granite as a base course. The basic premise of road soils engineering is to make the best road you can out of what you got the most of. Lots of roads were built through swamps by first laying the trees in the alignment down as base. A few years back I saw a 4-lane in Florida built on a 12" base of sea shells. Remarkable.
Ask the quarry operator if he has a gradation that compacts well. Just like asphalt it depends on what he might be crushing on any given day. Most of the time though he will have just what you need stockpiled. He might recommend that you mix a little limestone or granite dust with it to make sure it will set up. Agricultural lime is a bit more expensive but it is nothing more than crushed limestone. One inch of the stuff applied at the same 110/lbs per square yard worked as deep as you can get it by just back dragging a toothed bucket through it will set up hard as hammered hell when you get a rain. You can substitute that for the last inch of granite.
If you get scrap rock from the asphalt plant you will likely find that the "fines" have disappeared and that the stone is loose and won't compact. Mix one inch of stone dust in it as above , smooth it off and forget it. First good rain you get will fix it too. At that rate of application one 25 ton load scattered down Mako's drive would fix it.
There I go running off at the mouth. I love talking about this stuff. In my misspent youth I helped build 60 odd miles of the Interstate system. Hope this helps----
its a scam, truthfully. 60 minutes had a stories on these gypsy a couple years ago. They are winter based in my town. every summer they go out and follow the road pulling this scam. You will not be happy. Do not do business with anybody that you do not call out of phone book.
Ever consider a chip seal job over a well compacted stone base? Cheaper than HMA by far and probably durable enough for your needs. Maybe you'll need a recoat in 8 years.
Just a thought.
Eric
I didn't take the offer of the asphalt job. Sounded too good to be true, so probably was. You confirmed what I suspected. Thanks.
As for the running off at the mouth - That was the best info I've ever read on how to make a driveway. My current drive is about 3 loads of granite #4's, and doesn't compact very well. Used #4 because that's state law here in GA requires for entries to construction sites, and that's when I had it dumped. That's what I have to have re-graded constantly. It's also on a short hill. I've jokingly told the driver when he delivered the granite that I'd feel better if he just dumped a load of pennies on the road, based on what I paid him for 18 tons. Price per ton was pretty good, but the cost stacks up when you get several truckloads for a drive. The #4's were dumped just before and during the El Nino rains of 1997, and they have been since incorporated into the loverly gumbo of Nawth Jawja red clay. Probably driven halfway to China by now. I know it's about time to get some "Crush & Run" for it - or maybe granite dust, (Which really isn't much dust, just fines) which packs pretty hard . Anyway, Thanks, guys, now I am educated, and prepared to do the job right.
DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
Don: I suspect that number 4 stone is that stone which will be retained on a number 4 sieve. typically stones 3/4" to 1 and 1/2 ". GDOT is looking out for the taxpayers best interest by insisting that that be used as the base. I would expect that they are assuming that most folks know nothing about compacted sub-grades and are just going to strip the grass off and put some gravel on it. If you have no base of any kind and you want to build a road across a pasture, 6-8" of that size stone laid down first will make a great base on which to build. Because of the aggregate size it will be less likely to disappear (although it certainly will) in the winter rains or by being mashed into the soil under traffic. GDOT'S thinking was that if you don't ever do anything else to it, you'll still be alright but I doubt that they ever intended that nothing would added. There ought to be lot of red gravel in North Georgia and it too makes a great base over which to put crusher run material. I have had red gravel drive ways but by themselves they are too susceptible to rutting and wheel displacement. Also, they do not perform well at all after a good snow melts.
A ton of stone after all is still a ton and if they make up a large percentage of your order with number 4 rock then you are going to be short on fines and the liklihood of it ever setting up is out of the question. If you still have number 4 base on your drive then you are ready for a load of "quarter minus" (no stone larger than 1/4"). that will be mostly fines and will fill the voids in the rock number 4. If the stone is in not on your drive put down a load of stone no larger than 3/4" first. Spread it smooth and then top it with the 1/4 minus. All of the stone should be about the same price as the number 4. Big stone on bottom then smaller and smaller until you get to finish grade.
You folks in Georgia is alright! My GGgrandfather was from Dalton and served in the 3rd Confederate Cavalry at Chickamauga.
Jiggs: I really appreciate this last post, also. You have given me a new way to look at my driveway. Every time I walk up it w/ a dog. I have some sections that have granite dust on it; some sections w/o. Those w/ granite dust have, indeed, set up harder than "Hammered Hell." which I suspect is close to the hardness of a teenager's head. Those w/o have the stone IN the road, and a sea of red mud on top. GDOT really wants the #4's at entrances to construction sites to get the mud off truck tires before exiting onto their precious paved roads. It is a fineable offense to litter the road w/ red mud. Every county has a "Mud Sheriff." who is supposed to police that problem. A lot of construction companies hire folks to sweep the pavement to avoid fines. No. 4's are about 2" in largest dimension. What you call 1/4 minus is what we call granite dust. Crush and run has some larger stuff than 1/4".
At least now I know how to approach this muddy mess. A large dozer w/ a toothed bucket, a big dump truck and a pile of money.
DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
Don: You don't necessarily need a big dozer just to spread stone. A Bob cat or backhoe will do, as will a tractor with a box blade. If you have never run one, go rent a bob cat and follow the instructions in last months FHB. Take it slow and easy and in no time you'll be zipping around with the best of them. You'll catch yourself driving by the dealer's yard trying to figure out whether you need one at home.
"need" a bobcat? what does "needing" it have to do with anything? i'd love to have one, for absolutely no good reason.....