Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 27, 1999 12:57am | #1

   *
   Most books that deal with deck installation have diagrams that illustrate how to trim siding for a ledger board. Since the ledger board is the focal point for eventual deck or house failure, is there some reason why everyone must use one for a deck? Can't a deck be free-standing?

2. 
   scott_w_ | Mar 27, 1999 07:39am | #2

   *
   Fred, thanks for the advice. The last deck I built was over vinyl siding and I was not sure whether to take the same approach. What do you recomend for the trim piece. Would a ripped down piece of 5/4 be sufficient to hide where the siding was cut. As far as an ice and water membrane, is roofers felt sufficient? what type of silicone caulk do you recomend? Again, thanks for your time and recomendations

3. 
   Guest_ | Mar 27, 1999 11:06am | #3

   *
   Just anchor the ledger through the siding.

   Blue

4. 
   J_&_M_Home_Maintenance_Serv | Mar 27, 1999 12:41pm | #4

   *
   Just take 4 x 4 treated posts and bury them in concrete footing about 8"-10" away from the house foundation. Attach the ledger board to the 4 x 4 posts using carriage bolts. Cut off any of the posts that rise above the ledger board. When laying out the deck boards, butt one end against the siding. This way you keep your siding intact (and waterproof), the deck looks exactly the same as if you had attached the ledger to the house, the deck is stable and stout, and you save on labor.
   Anytime you cut siding to attach anything, you open up areas for possible water penetration (and ice problems up north). If you can avoid cutting the siding, and get the same quality results, then it should be a logical and wise choice to leave the siding intact.

5. 
   Guest_ | Mar 27, 1999 05:42pm | #5

   *
   J& M, bad advice! The posts will be set in the excavation footprint. All foundations (the posts are the foundation) should bear on virgin soil.

   Blue

6. 
   J_&_M_Home_Maintenance_Servi | Mar 28, 1999 01:07am | #6

   *
   Blue-Eyed-Devil,

   Please explain your answer. I have been burying the posts 24" deep, in concrete, for over 20 years, with NEVER a problem. This is well below our frost line, and WELL out of the excavation line. At 24" deep, you will definitely hit virgin, undisturbed, packed harder than a rock soil. Of course, the frost line varies on each area of the country, and one should check with local codes as to what is necessary.
   I still stand behind the fact that if you can avoid cutting into siding, do so. I spend a great deal of my time repairing damaged framing from siding that has been cut into for whatever reason.This is a very expensive job for the customer to have to bear, especially when it could have been avoided.
   Also, do you absolutely, positively know that this particular house has a sill joist? Will the sill joist hold the weight of the deck, furniture, and people? You would be amazed at how many houses DO NOT have sill joists installed.
   Or if the house is on a slab, are you sure the weight of the deck will not pull somewhat on the wall framing, moving it outward somewhat (even if only 1/8" to 1/4")? This will affect the wall coverings, siding, etc... This movement is above and beyond the normal expansion and contraction of the walls. I've seen some pretty amazing damage done to a house because of good intentions/bad ideas.
   By the way, I am a Certified Deck Specialist, and my company builds about 150 decks a year. (Although a great many lately have been around pools and spas)

   James DuHamel

1. 
   scottw | Mar 28, 1999 05:57am | #7

   *Blue, I would like to do this but, would I have to worry about crushing the siding? Should spacers be used?Scott

7. 
   Guest_ | Mar 28, 1999 07:39am | #8

   *
   James,

   Where do you build that 8"-10" is out of the over dig area for the foundation? How would one set perimiter drains or damp proof in a space that tight? The building code in your area lets you place them that close? Also, Bury them in concrete? All the codes I have seen call for a footer/pad under the post.How did you become a Certified deck Specailist?

   I can't belive I'm agreeing with Blue again.

8. 
   J_&_M_Home_Maintenance_Servi | Mar 28, 1999 08:23am | #9

   *
   Rob,

   I earned my Deck Specialist title by building and designing award winning decks and porches for 20 years. I am not some amateur idiot. Many, many hours spent with engineers (both building and geological) has taught us to use the methods we now use. I have not always buried posts for ledgers in concrete. And by the way, we pour 2" of gravel in the bottom of the hole before we add the posts.

   I must assume that you are refering to a foundation dig for a basement. We do not have basements in our area, or any area near us. It is quite evident that the codes for my area are far different than those of your area. An example of this would be the use of OSB for roof decking, and the use of staples for shingles. They are not allowed here, but are allowed in many parts of the country.
   When a slab is poured for a house here, the soil is not disturbed. Soil is added for low areas, but none is allowed by code to be removed. The outside of the slab is a 12" x 12" beam (24" x 24" if weight mandates the increased strength needed) Since the soil outside of the beamn is undisturbed, please tell me why I would be digging or installing a footer on "disturbed" soil? Again, I think you must be refering to a basement type foundation.
   If the man's older home is built on piers, then again, no loose soil would be present.
   I agree I should have been more informative about what type of foundation this method would work on. I agree that this would not be the proper method for a foundation that has been dug out and back filled (basement type)
   But then again, you and Blue should think more in terms of regional differences also.

   James DuHamel

9. 
   Guest_ | Mar 28, 1999 03:25pm | #10

   *
   If the siding is the old 8" siding, strategically place a 2x6 so that the thickest part of the siding is avoided. The siding willeasily pull tight, as you bolt the member to the frame.

   If you are going to land on the thick portion of the siding, that will cause a problem. The ledger will not pull tight. I would then bolt it lower, and use some creative hangering, and notching.

   Blue

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 29, 1999 02:14am | #11

   *James,My operation is in Ohio where basements are common. While it is possible to see a house of this type without a rim joist it is unusuall. Even if this does happen, lagging to the studs will work fine as long as the deck is built correctly. I agree that with a slab construction setting post makes more sense, primarily because there is little if any room to build a deck to floor level without excavation. Again, on a slab the soil should be relatively undisturbed close to the house providing the foundation for the slab is not extended down necessitating an overdig. I do remove siding counter flash and reinstall the siding. I do find a great deal of damage to the stuctures (not always, 15-20%) when we do this. The majority is from doors & windowsbeing improperly flashed. I prefer to r&r the siding because it looks better & we know how to do it right.Who gave the certification? Blue & I were thinking in regional terms, the same as you.remeber, one dosen't need to be an amatuer to be an idiot.Scott, If you aren't sure about how to put the siding back, invest the money to have a siding installer do it or get a book with good illistrations. The other thought wich agrees with James is to install the deck on posts. Just be sure it is allowed & you don't place the post in the overdig.

10. 
    Tom_Slater | Mar 31, 1999 03:33am | #12

    *
    if the box sill is open on the inside of the bldng try using 3/4" spacers of 1" pvc pipe between the ledger and siding and bolt thru ledger and bos sill with 1/2" carriage bolts eliminate need to cut siding and flash. I have done this on several jobs with vinyl siding with no problems should work for aluminium tom

1. 
   Woodchip | Apr 17, 1999 08:41am | #13

   *Do This.. temporarily attach the hangar joist to the house with deck screws.. Put a throw away plywood blade in your circular saw and cut around the outline of the ledger joist. Remove the Joist and the siding behind it.. Before replacing the joist slide aluminum "J" channel up under the siding tight against the cut on all sides. You may want to prepare your J channel by making cutouts on the rear lip and folding tabs back so you can face nail the tabs in what will be the joist field area. Be sure to detail the corners and overlaps similar to the way the rest of the J channel is installed on your house. Screw the ledger joist to the house and finish up with a sufficient lag bolt pattern to support the design loads. Usually 1/2 inch lags 16 or 24 inch centers Stagger pattern. It would be a good idea to put a roll of "Handy coil" flashing behind the joist if you have no access to a brake to make a 1 1/2" Z bend for a ledger drip cap.

11. 
    scottw | Apr 18, 1999 05:57pm | #14

    *
    I have an old house with alluminum siding. I am getting ready to add a deck but ran into the problem of removing the alluminum siding to attach the ledger board. Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas on cutting the siding? Is a circular saw a wise idea? The siding is old but in good condition so i am not ready to replace it just yet. Is there a way to remove it without needing to replace any of it. What is the best way to install the flashing for the ledger? Any help would be appreciated!

12. 
    Guest_ | Apr 18, 1999 05:57pm | #15

    *
    I wouldn't settle for only a 1 1'2" flashing in cold climates.

    Using only a J channel is okay, ONLY in conjunction with proper flashing.

    Blue