Replies

1. 
   brisketbean_ | Jun 09, 2000 05:55am | #1

   *
   Scribe it off of the common rafters of each pitch.

2. 
   Guest_ | Jun 09, 2000 03:07pm | #2

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   Bristket's idea is a good one. You can also do a developed drawing as Scott McBride describes in his article 'Framing a Bay-Window Roof', pp.90-93 in FHB # 129, Feb/Mar 2000

1. 
   Guest_ | Jun 11, 2000 02:02pm | #3

   *That was a good article Andy. I haven't read it closely yet, but it did give me the amazing insight for a novice that a speed square makes a good protractor. Stretch a line, measure, and transfer the numbers to the saw/board. I like the intuitive approach over the trig solution, though there's a place for each and maybe the best thing would be to use both as a sanity check.

1. 
   Guest_ | Jul 11, 2000 10:01am | #4

   *Can anyone recommend one book as standing out in explaining the use of the western framing square?thanks

1. 
   Guest_ | Jul 15, 2000 12:44pm | #5

   *Hey you!!That's a blatant advertorial!!

1. 
   Guest_ | Jul 15, 2000 03:37pm | #6

   *which differs from the eastern framing square because it is worm drive...search the archives... or go to sears and get the little teeney tiny itsy bitsy booklet that comes with their squares.....or send me $300 and i'll send you my copy of (((The Steel Square))) by Fred T. Hodgson ,(1903), wch i bot for 50 cents last summer....,

2. 
   Guest_ | Jul 16, 2000 02:03am | #7

   *Mike, i think i have a copy of the steel square. I remember laughing heartily at some of the statements.There might be a wealth of stuff in there, but I don't think I could understand any of it.Maybe I;ll go search my archives (the barn).blue

3. 
   brisketbean_ | Jul 16, 2000 03:17pm | #8

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   Mike;

   I will sell both volumes for 300 dollars, what are you trying to do, act like a rip off oil company?

4. 
   Guest_ | Jul 17, 2000 02:59am | #9

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   no bean.... i was just tryin to brag on findin those volumes at a yard sale for 50 cents each....

   ya just never know where the good stuff will turn up

   actually.. as blue says.. it's kind of obscure..

   the best one is the little booklet that used to come wrapped around the square....

   the other benefit was that it actually explained the markings on your square... not some other thing that may or may not exist....i never did get any good at using the tables on my square... but i do use it all the time with my buttons for rafter layout... and stairs... cheek cuts,.... gains... i construct with trig.. or string ... or full size layout.

   not having the benefit of doing the same thing over and over.. i never did develop a lot of those skills to a good level of proficiency...

1. 
   Guest_ | Jul 17, 2000 06:41am | #10

   *Mike, thanks for the tip. You know, what really gets me isn't the saw but the bags. Baasssaaackwaards! :)

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 15, 2000 03:33am | #11

   *Chris,I asked the same question about 9 months ago. I was refered to the Roof Framer's Bible. The book has tables with most of the common unequal pitches. I would like to know how to figure it also.

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 16, 2000 09:46am | #12

   *"trig" But the easiest way for my math-challenged mind was to set the circular saw bevel to the main roof slope (easy to convert X/12 to degrees by looking at the markings on a speed square) and then mitering at the hip roof slope.So for the 7/12 hip setting down on the 3/12 main roof, the bevel was 15.5° and the miter 35.5°. Or am I totally talking about the wrong question?

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 17, 2000 04:43am | #13

   *Cactsman,

   One reason for not getting an answer to this question all the time that it is asked is because this angle is a dihedral. Most just use an approximation.

   View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle

2. 
   Guest_ | Aug 20, 2000 01:10am | #14

   *I agree with Joe Fusco. Most framers use an approximation. For angles under 45, i use the "cowboy" approach. Cut the hip end of the rafter at 45 and throw it up to the hip. Scribe it with a block. For angles over 45, I generally cut the plumb cut square and nail it right to the hip. While some stock worm drives will cut up to 50 degrees, I've found it really doesnt matter strucurally to take this kind of shortcut.

3. 
   Guest_ | Aug 20, 2000 03:57am | #15

   *Joe, what in the hell is a diehedral? And please don't tell me its a bastard bevel!blue

4. 
   Guest_ | Aug 20, 2000 04:28am | #16

   *Blue,

   I hear you call it that!! just kidding. . . In simplest form it's the angle where to planes intersect. There is some good reading on the subject if you're up to it. DihedralTetrahedron

   View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle

5. 
   nathan_w | Aug 23, 2000 05:42am | #17

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   ok, don't mean to stir the fire, but...

   doesn't the friction at the point of contact of two members nailed together have a resistance to the shifting of the members? If so, doesn't the corner-only contact nailing of a squared jack against a hip significantly reduce this friction coefficient?...

6. 
   Guest_ | Aug 24, 2000 01:36am | #18

   *
   absolutely..that's why you should caulk all your joints!

1. 
   Guest_ | Aug 26, 2000 05:33am | #19

   *Nice try Nathan. You are trying to rationalize using a squarecut jack, instead of giving it a sidecut. Your theory makes some sense, but there is little need to prevent a jack rafter from shifting. A couple of spikes will easily hold it from shifting since there are no pressurestrying to force it out of it's nailed alignment except gravity. Gravity pulls it down, and the shear strength of the nails keeps it up. The sidecut doesn't help, nor hurt. It just looks better.I use a modified sidecut on jacks that fit onto hip rafters on octogons. It's half square and half sidecut. I'll take a picture of the one I did on my Huron house and post it sunday night in here.blue

1. 
   Guest_ | Sep 01, 2000 04:37am | #21

   *I agree with Blue Eyed. This condition seldom occurres anyway, and I've never been shot down on frame inspection.

7. 
   Cactsman | Sep 01, 2000 04:37am | #20

   *
   How do I find the back bevel on a bastard hip? (Irregular pitch hip roof) I can figure out the bevel for a regular hip roof inside of 30 seconds, but when the hip is changed from 45 degrees I am lost.
   I'd appreciate any input.
   -Chris