Hi,
I have a client that has been caulking a 3/16 ” gap between the backsplash of her countertop and the wall for a “while”. It’s really on thick now. The countertop can’t be pushed back to the wall. It’s pretty much stuck in place. You can see a crack line between the original “sealant” (not sure what it is) and the client’s caulk. She say’s every year they have to re-caulk.
I told her that’s probably because, due to expansion and contraction the caulk breaks down. I also said, you’re lucky it only breaks down once a year. My suggestion to her was to put quarter round or cove molding over the crack (also told her molding is generally not used this way) or put a row of tile on the wall and fill in crack with grout. Couldn’t think of anything else.
Any suggestions would be great. She seems to be quite annoyed with the problem.
I’ve seen this problem before, but “they” just let it be that way. The gap wasn’t as great though.
thanks
Edited 6/11/2005 2:14 am ET by handygman
Edited 6/11/2005 2:17 am ET by handygman
Replies
I have ran into this problem before, 'U' shaped kitchen where I had to fasten 'flo form' together and the outside of the 'U ' was tighter than the final resting place,( Try wiggling a 10 x 8 x 8 'U' counter with 1/8" clearance} I made my own moulding, scribed to wall, to cover large gap and caulk in place , client liked the effect. You can use tile, something that works with the style of cupboards or counter. using a moulding can add a designer touch and hides many problems . The 'U' shaped counter was for METAL kitchen cupboards, so I had little choices to what I could do.
IF IT WAS EASY, EVERYONE COULD DO IT!
Could you show me a profile of the moulding you use? I'm interested.
If the counter splash was scribed better this would be less of a problem. With a wide gap the caulk has nothing to sit on at that thickness so expansion and gravity causes it to droop into the crack. One solution I've had some success with is to use window rated expanding foam. Tape off the seam to keep the foam off of the finished wall and shoot a bead of foam deep into the gap. Did I mention pulling out all the old stuff first? Yeah shoulda mentioned that. It may take a few passes for the foam to buildup and expand out of the joint. When dry cut the foam back with a new razor knife, angling it down into the gap slightly then run a putty knife in the gap to keep the foam 1/16"+ below the surface of the splash. This keeps the foam from showing through the subsequent caulk job. Clean up any foam chunks with a vac and remove the tape. Now apply the caulk by pushing the caulk gun forward (this pushes the caulk down and fills the voids in the foam) and following with a clean putty knife. A wipe with a damp rag should tidy the joint. This creates a nice squared off joint, if a filleted bead is preferred substitute a finger for the putty knife.
I like the idea of using the foam to create a foundation.
I already told them to go to the store to look at tile and molding.
I'll call them in a day or so to see what they think. Not sure what their budget is.
Thanks everybody.
You don't need to use that messy foam from cans. Purchase enough foam backer rod of the appropriate diameter, and stuff it in the crack.
You can get backer rod at the big box stores or any good lumber yard. It is available in sizes up to 1", in 1/8" increments, and coils up to 100' in length.
No mess, just push it into the crack with a putty knife. Be sure to not set it any deeper than 1/4" below the finished joint level. Caulk the joint, paint , and be done with it.
The excess thickness of the caulk is what is causing the current annual failures when seasonal movements occure. A good quality caulk, less than 1/4" thick, and bonded to only the two adjacent surfaces will stretch enough laterally to accomidate seasonal movements.
Caulking is not molding or a filler, but used correctly can be the solution to this problem.
BTW using a bullnose tile is a nice design solution, but do not use grout at the intesection of the top and tile. It will crack, look bad and eventually come out, leaving you with another joint to clean out and caulk. If you use the tile solution, you need to caulk the joint between the two dissimilar materials.
Dave
This sounds good. I never heard of backer rod. What is "normally" used for. Sounds like it's pliable.
thanks
Backer rod is "normally used for" backing caulk. It's like a rod made of spongy polyethylene or polysomethingortheother and it is very flexible. Don't feel bad--I never remember what it's called and no one at Lowe's knows what it's called either and only a few can find it if you describe it to them. If you think of it sort of like a kitchen sponge but cylindrical and only about a quarter inch to a half inch in diameter and in a coil about 25 feet long, usually grey or black, you've about got it.
The rods are usually in rolls near the door weatherstripping section or caulk. They do work well but they could slip down over time. While not a huge concern, I will usually have a can or two of the foam (like to replace the window over the counter) so I adapted what I had on hand and it worked well. I've also used construction adhesive this way but it is much messier. However it has worked well when wood must abut masonry. The adhesive formed a flexible backer to the flexible caulk but caulking rod would of course work here as well.
Some stores only stock backer rod as a seasonal item (for fall season winterizing). It can be frustrating finding some weatherstripping items this time of year.
that may be why I keep using canned foam, it's always there.
Have you tried the water-based white foam by DAP. Cleans up easily from hands and in this case from walls and backsplash.
No but I will look for it. I'm just used to all gooey crap forming a hard second skin, I wouldn't know what to do with spray-foam that cleaned up with water. Seems almost sinful.
It is in a blue can. The trade-off is that the easy to clean foam is not very strong. It is great for use in finished spaces where a sticky gooey mess can get on nice surroundings. Good for this application.
Any good concrete/masonary materials supplier will have a boatload of backer rod. it is available from 1/4" to 2" diameter in 1/8" increments.
I can buy it by the foot or in a roll of 100'.
Look outside of the big boxes and you will find suppliers that cater to specific building trades and applications. You will also find that most of them are very knowledgeable and helpfull about the the use and applications of the products they sell. Something you don't often find at the big box stores.
Dave
Good tip on the masonry supply. Thanks.Here the small local lumberyards are just as likely as the Big Boxes to only stock some items seasonally. They just don't have the space to stock every item year round. They are more responsive than Big Boxes at stocking an item for one customer or special ordering something, though.A new "Do It Best" Lumber and Hardware just opened in Lake City, MN. Best little store I've ever seen (it is too early to tell for sure, but I think they will out serve and out design HD and Menards and all the other little stores).edit to add: I've used trade supply houses often. I have very specific requirements for many of the tools and materials I use. No one supplier carries the items I routinely use. So I make the rounds. I have to shop 3 building materials suppliers and a trade supply just to get the items I need to install cabinets and countertops (GRK screws & bits one stop, cedar shims and cedar shingles one stop, PowerGrab adhesive & Kreg pocket hole screws another stop, 23 g micropins yet another stop.
Edited 6/24/2005 8:18 am ET by basswood
At clown depot they call it "caulk saver". Leave it to them to add their own name to something thats been around forever
We use it around here in the same way we poke skinny bits of f/g insulation into the ROs between window and framing. Or where an ext door threshold is level, but the floor is not.cheers
***I'm a contractor - but I'm trying to go straight!***
I'm 100% behind Dave.. You can't ask caulk to move in 2 dimensions. But ask it it to stretch alot in one.. now you've got something. Use a backer-rod (it's what it was made for) and you should have no problem. I routinely leave a 1/4" space between tile and counter. I use a piece of spline to hold the gap. Have you ever tried to pull a countertop when there wasn't enough room to raise it? Now you know why it is there...Use a 100% silicone (made for wet areas) and you're in like Flynn...
All I did was use a 3/8 beading bit in the router on a piece of oak, stained the oak, caulked in place w/ clear silicone. Any small decrative profile wouild do, any lumber yard or HD should have something that would fill the bill.
IF IT WAS EASY, EVERYONE COULD DO IT!
Artworks had a good reply--I would just add to it to say you could use bullnose tile or some sort of tile border around the top of the backsplash. Could be kind of decorative or an accent. I would even consider putting such tiles in place with silicone or Lexel so there is flexibilty so the gap doesn't open and it waterproof.
You need to re-caulk it with the 1/2" Caulk gun. ;-)
when i scribe c tops to a wall, the gap is always less than an eighth and usually a sixteenth, if the gap opens up later then some serios movement is taking place and needs to be addressed first
reminds me of a job i did a few years ago where i installed the kitchen cabinets and c top six weeks after they dug the hole for the foundation, a year later the c top was a good 1/4 from the wall and of course the caulking had failed
so movement is probably causing the failure
caulking is not a piece of trim
I had a kitchen that had a caulk problem. I finally switched my caulk usage to outdoor high grade door and window caulk by OSI. It was strecthy and strong and last a coupla years before the color got ugly. Then, I'd grab it at one end and rip it all out in one swipe, then re apply.
Not a perfect solution, but workable.
blue
You need to take top out and fix it right. If it's glued down you might be able to cut through it with stiff putty knife and hammer. Anything less will just be a band-aid and she will never be happy.
I was assuming that the top was properly attached. Popping it and rescrewing it may well be a good idea. Even if it was properly secured, redoing it may compensate for what ever movement in the structure now that it was settled. A good thought from doodabug.
I'll take a look at taking it next time I'm there. Thanks
I think the caulk is the wrong way to go. I own several apartments and do this every time I renovate a kitchen. Just add a narrow shelf on top of the back splash. It can hang over the back splash by as much as an inch and still look fine. It's much easier to scribe a shelf to the wall than the whole counter top. The shelf should be attached to the wall, not to the counter top. That way if the counter moves you won't see the crack. In one kitchen remodel I had to run the plumbing behind the lower cabinets pushing them forward by about 3". I just made the shelf wider. Tenants place nicknacks, coffee cups, spices, etc. on the shelf.
just to be difficult ...
is it a post formed CT with a rounded top ...
or ... if you're lucky ... a square top laminated CT?
if it's square'd .... pop the top laminate strip ... and scribe in a new one.
bet it's a post formed though ... in which case ... backer rod is the way to go. Remember to use a good paintable caulk ... and paint over the caulk. That way .. it doesn't become a dirt magnet.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa