If they make noise when you walk on them something is loose. The tile could be bonded to the substrate/setting bed and the whole assembly could be loose. If the tile is set directly on a slab, it is obviously a thinset failure.In any case you may be able to save the tile by carefully cutting the grout lines with a utility knife or grout saw, and lifting the tile with a suction cup. After the first one is out the others get easier. Scrape any residual mortar, clean the tile and reinstall with a good thinset.
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My first guess would be that they are set in a mortar bed using local sand. This was a problem with crumbling foundations in Florida and California, among other seaside states. The sand in the foundation or mortar bed may contain too much salt, which has a crumbling effect. I don't know the chemistry.
I would use a rotary hammer with a chisel bit to remove the tiles in the entire room. It seems like a big job, but once you do it, you will see it is the best solution. Scrape out the remaining mud down to a solid base, and start over.
I would remove everything in the room - toilet, sink, cabinets, etc. In the long run, this will make for less work and for a better result.
I'd just wear ear plugs ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
That may just be the right solution!
why am I funny or why am I waiting for mechanicals to wrap up on a job over the holidays ... ?
either one ... uh ... improper upbringing maybe?
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
ya, blame your parents. works for me.
yeah, an angle grinder works great for cutting tile. Diamond blade, eye and ear protection. Thought you were trying to save the tile. On a slab, a brick chisel and hammer are probably all you need for removal.
Oh, Oh....I see a vacation coming.
This ain't a bad site if you learn to ignore, or irritate, using the proper language. I'd do a little editing asap if you want to hang awhile.
Your thread warrants discussion and I'm suprised that the bad manners started so soon.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
where's the popcorn?
View ImageView ImagePeace out.
You didn't mention the size of the tiles, which might help to paint a better mental picture of the situation. When you get down on hands and knees, can you physically move any of the tiles? wiggle them back and forth, see them "flexing" under pressure from above? I'm by no means a tile expert, but I'm surprise that the tiles aren't cracking in some way, at some location if movement is the problem.
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
"Everybody wants to know what I’m on...
What I'm on? I’m on my bike, busting my ### 6 hours a day…
...What are you on?"
- Lance Armstrong
I've noticed that if one person knocks you down it's a DOG PILE! Remember those? Everybody on one guy.
I just try to stay on subject and turn it back to what you need for an answer.
good point, it's just irritating
Yes....don't I know?!!!! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Thanks for that bit of editing. I'd rather see you stay and work through this thread.
We all succumb at times to poke some fun, make inappropriate humor or just flat out make mean posts. I'm as guilty as anyone but I'm also interested in quite a bit of the input that is delivered from the real world situations and the real world expertise that weighs in on the problems.
The less reaction you give to the snide remarks, the less chance it blows up. I think that stuff should be reserved for the gymnasium, err, I mean the Tavern but I ain't no cyber cop either. One thing I don't want is more moderator imposition because I've never found a forum that works as well as this one with the interference of moderators who quite often are forced to keep things PC by their employers. They are caught between a rock and a hard place too.
One thing for sure, no harm was intended when the first comical crack was issued.
Now...back to the real problem.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
It could be a protruding fastener rubbing against the tile or substrate.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Why don't you babies go off in the corner and suck your thumb?
There was a period of time some years ago when there was a lot of bad grout out there - not the tilesetter's fault but rather the grout manufacturers - I can't remember the brand name, but that may be your problem - especially if its around 10 years old.
Jeff
I'm having a hard time connecting Jeff's lighthearted comment to you , and you were feeling it was disrespectfull. If you want respect, you've got to give it also, and maybe roll with a few smart alec comments.
What do you do at work if someone is horsing around? Start shooting, or go cry in the corner.
Mike
If it makes noise when walked on, something IS moving, just not very far. One handy test is to rap the tiles with a nailset and listen for a hollow sound. That will tell you where the tile is loose.
I skimmed over the personal stuff, so may have missed this, but is it on a slab or a frame floor? On frame, it is possible that the tile backerboard is moving relative to the subfloor, in which case the hollow sound will not be there, or not in the same obvious way. If a slab, then the tile is loose, period.
I had this happen in my last house, and eventually had to remove and retile a rather large area where the bond between thinset and slab had failed after 15 years. Thinset was firmly stuck to tiles. I think the tilesetter tiled over laitance or dry dust, allowing eventual bond failure.
Bill
A golf ball works great for the loose tile test. The best part about the golf ball is you don't have to bend.I hate to bend. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
U had 2 good replies.
2 serious answers ...
both confirmed your suspicions
exactly how many other replies do U need before you like the answers?
U got what U wanted ... your thread then became a moot point.
so it officially became fair game for a little light hearted fun.
U are entirely wound too tight.
that's the official verdict.
we held a meeting ... the vote was overwhelming.
if you'd like the official roll call U can email Taunton directly.
thanks for your participation.
I don't make the rules ... I just follow them.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I agree Jeff. I didn't see anything wrong with your minor attempt at humor. In fact, I appreciate your humor, especially because you don't waste a lot of time with longwinded jokes....Or do you? Err...never mind.Anyways, the terms blankhead and blankhead didn't need to surface...at least not in the first fifty posts! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
If you reset the tile, use a good quality thinset (we use Laticrete floor and wall), and fortify it with an acrylic admixture such as Laticrete 333. The aditive nearly doubles the cost but it's worth every penny. (Note: it's not quite the same to work with and it's a pain to clean up, use a vinegar/water solution to make cleanup easier.
Why not buy a latex modified thinset to start with, rather than add an admixture? And doubling the cost sounds like a lot, but you're probably only talking an extra $25 for the project."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
agreed.
even modified is overkill in mosty situations.
but ... since it's just as easy ... it's my standard.
adding the latex milk is a whole 'nother animal. Still not that difficult ...
but why bring out the big guns.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I typically use the modified also and I have yet to use the latex additive. I don't really know when/why it should be used or even how much to add.
Recently, on a Holmes on Homes, one of his co-workers mentioned that he was using latex additive in the grout instead of water so that they wouldn't have to seal the grout after it cured. Does this sound right? If it's true, it will be the way I do grout from now on because it's a lot cheaper to use additive than it is to make a return trip to seal grout.
I prefer Mapei products.
have always had great and consistent results with them.
most of the time ... I just use a modified thinset.
for some stones ... such as slate ... I use Kerabond mixed with Keralastic (instead of mixed with water). It's more expensive, harder to work with, and pretty much kills the trowels ... just too hard to keep them clean enough that the end of the day cleaning does anything much ... so for those jobs I just cost in the cheapest trowels I can get from HD or Lowes ... and toss them.
The amount to mix is printed on the directions, but as with mixing with water ...
going by eye / feel works just fine for me.
"Recently, on a Holmes on Homes, one of his co-workers mentioned that he was using latex additive in the grout instead of water so that they wouldn't have to seal the grout after it cured"
I saw that ... either Holmes or somewhere else.
I have no idea if that'd work.
latex ain't teflon ... and my first thot was a latex admix would attract and hold dirt?
there very well may be a latex admix for grout ... but I've never used one.
I'll dig thru the Mapei site some slow day and see if they have anything.
I have used sereval different manufactures different versions of epoxy grout.
they've all been pretty much the same.
the newer stuff is easier to use than the older ...
but it's still epoxy.
let it harden and it's there forever.
very unforgiving.
not impossible ... just gotta have a plan going in.
helper working behind U doing the sponging is a great luxury that I almost never have.
so ... I've gotten good at dividing all the mixes by eye and mixing small amounts in workable batches. Even then ... it's like when the concrete mixer shows up ...
once U start ... U don't stop till yer done ... and plan on sweating.
also ... got tip years ago ... the sponge water ... it should be hot.
as I was correctly told ... if it's so hot U can't put yer hand in ...
it's almost hot enough!
having a pair of rubber dish wash gloves is good just to shield the heat a bit ...
so work outta a hot water bucket ... the hotter the better it cuts ...
and work fast.
I hate the stuff when I'm working it ...
love it the instant that first wipe is done ...
'cause that's usually the last wipe.
epoxy doesn't "haze" over and over again.
the teflon stuff will get sticky ... but not the traditional cement based haze.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa