I started a job a couple months ago, building a guest house. Soon after the job started the HO’s dog bit me on the arm. It happened very quickly with no warning from the dog. Took a good chunk of flesh off my arm. The HO was standing right there and saw it happen. The dog has never bitten anyone before, nor have I ever been bitten. I couldn’t believe what happened. It was quite a shock not too mention painful ( now I have a neat scar, ugly). HO was extremely apologetic. Offers to put the dog down. I say no but keep the b*tch locked up while I’m here. That works for a few weeks and then the HO quits locking up the dog. I say I’m uncomfortable with the dog and he makes jokes, ha ha. last week when the HO is gone I encounter the dog again and the damn thing explodes and charges me (fortunatly my hammer is at hand). oh yeah a few weeks earlier my helper had an incident. He had a chunk of wood. I’m convinced this dog is a big problem.there is no excuse for its behavior, completely unpredictable.
Now I like animals and dogs but I think I should have made them put it down. I am not sure what to do now. I’m pissed about this scar. I’m pissed about the Dog. I’m afraid of it biting someone else (what if it bites a sub??) I told him about each incident and he makes jokes and if it happens again, I’m done. Still he jokes. I don’t want to loose this client cause next year they’re doing a BIG remodel that has my name one it.
We’re supposed to have a sit dowm meeting next week and this is something I’d like to clear up and i’m looking for other opinions on how I should deal with it..
Well any input would be appreciated,
thanks,
Jonathan
Replies
Two observations:
The owner is using the dog as a passive aggression tactic. He's pissed at you about something, but he lets the dog do the dirty work while he jokes.
You had a hammer and your helper had a stick. Why is this dog still alive?
nail gun.
or lawyer.
or go to the "next big remodel" and get mauled.
Me ... after they forgot to lock up the dog the first time ... I woulda packed all the tools and left a bill for the full invoice amount. I would have told them either that ... or the lawyers will get more.
btw ... I opend the thread because a coupla years back ... I had a big cat ...
named ... "BadDog" ...
the girls at the vets always laughed ...
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
To pack up and leave was my first instinct.I just hate burning bridges....
I think I'll name my next cat Baddog, very nice
When I was working for a framer, the drywall guy had a pit bull and thought it was cute that the dog was agressive. It grabbed someone's soda and ran around with the bottle in its mouth and the DW'er says, laughing, "Hope that wasn't yours! Ha, ha." I start to sweep up and the dog is eyeing me and the broom and the guy says, "He wants that broom." Like it was cute that he had this lethal weapon that he couldn't control. I didn't say a word, but kept an eye on the nailgun full of 16 pennies and always kept my belt and hammer with me. Had the dog come at me, it would have had a skull full of nails or a hammer claw. And the Dw'er would have been next. What an a-hole.
So, what's going to happen if this dog really injures you and you CAN'T work on this guy's house next year? Or, if a sub sues you and the HO 'cause she got bit?
One of my very good clients is dog sitting his pal's Poodle (full size). I went over to do some repairs and the dog came after me. The HO took the dog inside and I finished the job. I sent my invoice and wrote on it that I would come back and do the rest of the list when the dog was not there any more.
That big remodel will be history in any event, if the dog does not get along with you. That sitdown IMHO should include the warning that in addition to your professional expertise, and ability to schedule subs in an efficient and timely manner, staving off a determined canine will result in charges against the HO's insurance.
Do you really need next year's "maybe" job badly enough to get badly injured?
Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the Handyman
Vancouver, Canada
Big money job or no, you almost owe it to the next victim--possibly some innocent (not that you're not innocent!) little kid who gets all torn up or killed. I'd make a police report at least so that if it happens again there's a history and the dog can be put down. Dog should at least be isolated for ten days to make sure it doesn't have rabies! Owner needs a good talking to.
All you guys have made good points here. I love animals, but I'm with Jeff on this one. You've given the owner a chance to remedy the problem.
He hasn't done it. I think this is a bridge that needs to be burned. You don't need this guy's work. But getting back to Jeff's advice. Nail gun.
I had some friends who had a dog who would jump on you when you came over and literally p!ss all over your shoes when he was doing it. Now that's not the same as a bite, but tell that to a date I took over who got her expensive, new shoes pissed on. The dog jumped on me once when they weren't around, and I gave him a knee so hard in the chest he flew half-way across the room. After that, he'd start to jump on me, and I could see his mind starting to work, and he'd stop in mid-jump. Dogs learn fast. Nail gun. Once or twice will probably do it, and then all you'd have to do is point it at him to send him running, I'd bet.
First thing is to get a tetenus shot at the HO's expense. .........go to the emergency room cause it costs more.
Next time the dog comes around, grab him by the throat and slam him on his back until he goes slack and submits..............after that he sees you as the top dog (alpha) and he will probably leave you alone.
If the HO objects to what your doing, grab him by the throat and slam him on his back until he goes slack..................
ROAR !!!!
"Criticism without instruction is little more than abuse." D.Sweet
The dog now thinks he is the dominant entity. It will take a big fight with the dog to regain that dominance. Or... you could walk off of he dog's (owner's) job.
You see, it's not necessarily the animals fault... it is most likely is the fault of the "dog" that 1)allows this to continue to happen, and 2)is actually being cruel to the animal by not controlling the behavior, and 3)continues to laugh about a serious situation.
If it were me, I would have the owner board the dog, or otherwise segregate it from you and your crew. If he doesn't, leave the job and bill him for all work as if it were complete.
You have an obligation to provide a work-site that is hazard-free under OSHA... and a biting dog is a violation of that obligation. It could be argued that the owner has the same obligation (OSHA)... I'd have to talk to a bud at OSHA to get his take on it. In addition, if you are aware of a hazard and take no action to correct it, your Work Comp coverage may refuse to pay... or take action against you for recovery (if they are obligated to pay under statute)... if someone gets hurt. In addition, the knowledge of a hazard and no action to correct is an invitation to lawsuit. Is that big remodel worth this? The fine from OSHA alone could feasibly put you out of business.
It just irks the crap out of me when I hear about someone thinking it is funny when their dog bites, nips, intimidates, etc. IMHO, that is abuse of the dog... for when that dog bites someone, the first thought is to put the dog down. It's not the dog that needs put down... it's the idiot owner that should be put down for not taking a little time to train the dog.
Edited 8/27/2004 5:50 am ET by Rich from Columbus
Jeff gave you the best advice.
I'll add, report both incidents to the local animal control authority, particularly the bite. If you required medical treatment, the doctors report it, it is generally the law.
Take no action agianst the dog, unless it is of a defensive nature. Why open yourself up to legal actions by the HO for injurying his pet (family member) ?
Animal owners are responcible for all actions of thier animals, whether they are present to control them or not.
Start billing extra hours for time used watching for the dog.
Dave
Sorry Rich, ment this for endeavor.
Edited 8/27/2004 6:46 am ET by DAVERICHESON
Theres this guy up the hill from me next door in a McMansion. HAs a Ridgeback and lets it roam around from house to house.
Last year the dog took a chunk out of the cable guys arm. Theres a million dollar lawsuit going on over it now.
Not long ago after that incident it bit my other next door neighbors wrist. Luckily the neighbor had his watch on but still had to go to the hospital.
The dog still roams around.
Saw him in front of my house the other day for the third time taking a giant dump.
I took the poo...put it in a bag and put it in my neighbors mailbox with a note saying that next time he'd find a head in there.
My kids scared shidless of this big ol dog. I've already called the cops and filed a complaint.
What scares me even more is that there are alerts around here of rabid racoons and I know dogs will corner them.
By the way....I never said who's head would be in the mailbox...and I really meant to make it sound quite questionable.
BE WELL AWARE
andy
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
jonathan..... here's an out for you and a face saver for the homeowner..
have your sit-down immediately..
tell the homeowner that he has to provide a safe work site for you. you suggest that the dog be put in a boarding kennel until completion of the job..
the dog must be in the kennel every working day or you do not get out of the truck.. in addition.. any day you show up and the dog is there you will have to bill for the day for you and your helper..
express regret about the neccessity.. but be firm.. if the owner does not agree to this and does not implement it.. stop work immediatley and consult a lawyer..
lay it out for the lawyer and have a letter written..
this homeowner is on such bad ground it is unbelievable... his homeowner insurance is in jeopardy.. and this is NOT a joking matter..
our daughter's dog is similar to the one you describe ( he was an abused pound puppy)... when we had RhodeFest , we kenneled him at "puppy camp".. he thought it was a vacation....
we love him dearly.. but if he was mine .. i'd have him retrained or put down
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I love dogs, have 4 of my own.
However a dog that bites is bad news. An owner that thinks a biting dog is funny is worse. If it is a little kid that gets it next it could easily be a dead kid.
If the dog bit me I would pack my tools and leave. The owner would be told no more work unless the dog is someplace else. End of argument. Just too damn risky.
The dog needs some training. Wild dogs beat the daylights out of those who dont toe the line. Grabbing the thing by the scruff and pinning it to the ground would do it the world of good. A swift boot up the diff to the owner would work even better.
Stuff that man, just leave. The "promise" of future work is the oldest con going. I always assume they dont mean it, most often I'm right. Getting torn up for "future work" that you probably wont get isnt worth it.
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
Blame it on the subs! Or your employee! Explain that if one of them gets hurt they won't hesitate to sue and they know the history of bites and attacks and they'd make a case of blatant negligence - big bucks. Sorry Mr. HO, I just can't control this situation any longer, I've tried - and you need to protect yourself.
In the sate of New Jersey, the dog owner is 100% responsible for any and all dog bites. No three strikes, no discussion, no nothing. It is one of the three areas of absolute liability. Get some legal advice and see if it's the same where you live.
Andy302
I don't think anything you or the homeowner does will control that dog. You say you are the first one it ever bit? That might be because you are squarely in its territory. As long as you work there, you will be in its territory, so you and everyone that works for you will always be at risk. Either the dog stays locked up, or it gets boarded whenever you are on the premises. No compromise, no jokes.
And I wouldn't believe the story about a remodel next year unless I had a signed contract in hand. So much can happen between now and then - you could die of rabies, the HO could lose his job, etc.
Dogs disappear eeeeevery day.
Jonathan,
Dog bite is just about the most common claim on a Homeowners Liability portion of their Homeowners Insurance. It's a covered loss. As the job concludes, find out who he has his insurance with. You'll at least be compensated for the cost of treatment and any lost wages, and when there's scarring, the insurance companies are usually fairly generous. I'd wager he has at least $100,000 in liability coverage. If he won't tell you who his Agent or carrier is, you can go the small claims suit route. I'd approach him right up front, and ask him to file a claim. It's not like you're asking him for HIS money. And there's no deductible for a liability claim, in most every state.
Greg
In my experience, probably 7 or 8 times out of 10 when a dog bites someone, it is because of poor training. In my mind, that makes it 100% the owner's fault, because he/she is the one responsible for training the dog in the first place.
That is one of my pet peeves when people buy large and/or agressive dogs, but fail to train them. To me that is about like letting a toddler play with a loaded gun. You wouldn't raise a child without training and education, why would you think a dog doesn't need any? It is just common sense that the dog is going to need training. But some times common sense is a rare commodity.
You have had several good suggestions on how to deal with the dog, and I would just stress solving this issue as soon as possible. This situation would really piss me off! #1 cuz of the lack of training of the dog, and #2, because I am there to do a job, NOT to worry about a freaking dog.
Poor training is a waste of a good dog
my $.02
jt8
If you decide to keep working with this HO, I suggest pepper spray. Not the kind that ladies carry around in their purses to fend off a would-be mugger, but the much stronger version made for hikers to defend against bears. Where a gun may not stop the bear, that pepper spray is remarkably effective. One blast in the face and you'll never have trouble with that dog again.
I live in California. By state law, a dog owner is "strictly liable" for anything their dog does, particularly biting someone. If this is not the case in your state, there may be a local or county ordinance which dictates the same thing. I agree with the others who advocate walking away from the job and sending a bill for the full amount you would have charged had the job been completed, if the dog owner refuses to comply with your very reasonable and legal request to have the dog removed from the jobsite.
Thank you for the input, I was looking for a reality check. And you all provided one. I think I am only putting up with this is I do need the work ( but not this badly) and I am banking on this remodel ( that may never happen). Of course I wouldn't want to deal with a psycho dog on a big job anyway or let anyone else get hurt. You've all made excellent points. I don't buy any excuse for its behavior. No dog should bite except if it is protecting someone. How I detest lawyers and our society's desire to sue...... Well perhaps after our sitdown it'll all work out...........
If not, anyone need a carpenter :)
(who gets along well with animals)
Thanks much,
Jonathan
DW got nipped by an uncle's dog, uncle shot the dog within 15 minutes, saying a "dog that bites a person is no good for nuthin" (obviously, military/police excepted, and that's where the training part of the thread applies)
a dog that bites is bad news
What's thei politically correct "put it down" crap, kill the thing.
The night before I got married the first time my fiance's neighbor's dog charged at me, nipping but I kept kicking at it and jabbing with my car keys so I never got bitten. The neighbor man had just gotten out of prison but wasn't home; his wife heard the ruckus and stuck her head out the door. I yelled, "Get this dog away from me or I'll kill it!" She said, "I wish you would, it's been nothing but trouble!" Great. So I'm thinking, how do I make this dog disappear so I don't have to deal with the man.
When we come back from our honeymoon, the neighbor man comes up and says he had the dog put down. I said I was sorry and he says, "Well, it nipped at a kid once, so this was the last straw--I can't risk someone's life on a dog." That guy turned out to be one of the best neighbor's I ever had. Was a plumber and helped us install a dishwasher, helped me repair a leak in a pipe in a crawl space. Had been in prison for possession of cocaine. After I got divorced, found out he had died of a heart attack--only like 45 years old.
Greatest animal tragedy in my life.........I was dumb enough to own a wolf........she was gorgeous and gentle, but the neighbor kid started squeeling once in front of her and she grabbed him by the shirt and tried to pull him away from his dad. I had to kill her
As much as you would like to punish the dog, its not the dogs fault you got bit. The HO is responsible in every way.
At your upcoming job meeting start off with " We need to address one issue before this meeting or any work/progress can move forward...."
Dont be afraid to spell it out for this nimrod. You could easily sue him for the amount you would lose if you refused to finish the work.
Then ask him what steps he is willing to take to protect everyones best interest. If he continues to make jokes, walk.