Bought a 70’s cottage lakeside. House had been vacated for a few years. There is a peculiar odder. We tore up all the original carpeting in the bedrooms, bath, kitchen, living room and hallway last fall and it reeked. Felt it was the carpet, pad or combination of both. Now the heat has arrived and the place has the same odder back again. We had tried spraying a diluted combo of water and bleach on the particle board floor, but to no avail. I had removed the particle board in the bathroom during a renovation this spring. It is in my trailer here at home. With all the rain and fresh air, you would think the odder would be gone. It smells as bad as ever. I want to re-carpet the bedrooms and lay down engineered hardwood flooring in the living room and hallway. Problem is the smell. The subfloor is T & G and the particle board laid over it. Framing sits on top so removing the particle board will be a real a_ _ busting process cutting the perimeters of the rooms in order to remove the board (already did this to replace the floor in the bath)while using a Fein Multi tool. Any ideas on how to rid this place of the smell short of pulling up the particle board? It is like a de-gasing of the floor board driven by heat.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
The RealTruck AMP Research Bedsteps give you easy access to your truck-bed storage.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
Go to home cheapo and buy a bunch of miss matched paint and paint the floor.
Slop it on good and heavy, seal it!
Worked for me.
Then do the coffee grounds burn routine.
1. Figure out the moisture content of the flooring. If this odor is mold/mildew, you need to get rid of the moisture (ie vent the crawlspace, redirect downspouts, perimeter drain, fix the roof or whatever is letting the water in) - otherwise you're just capping that much more moisture on the bottom side.
2. If it's not moisture/mildew, lay down a coat of Kilz, which should be a little more effective than just paint (which might be enough to seal it). Sealing in odor is what it was designed for.
Shellac is another option for sealing, but I think Kilz will be more cost-effective.
-t
Never thought of a damp crawl or basement, my space below was dry.
Had a house once with a michigan basement, every time it was hot and humid out I would get this nasty smell from down below.
Rigged up a squirrel cage blower to a vent and ran it 24/7 in the summer. Drew the smell out and a good air exchange in the basement.
Did see a friend who had fire damage work done, contractor sprayed a yellow stain block paint on all exposed wood, (KILZ type of stuff) Presto, no smoke smell.
But with my 1st suggestions you could get some real pretty floors!!!
I did use Kilz to prime the bathroom walls and thought I would die from asphyxiation. Sure took my mind off the bad smell of the flooring. It would be faster and cheaper than ripping up and replacing the flooring. Will try it in one of the bedrooms to see if that stifles the odder.
There is a pretty good natural draft created from 2 fireplaces, one up and one down in the basement. The dampers are rusted in the open position and will need to be replace someday when we move in permanently.
With all the work on the foundation, French drains, gutters with drain pipes some 10-20 feet away from the foundation the moisture and water ingression are history. We have had some real serious rains over the past 4 year since and she is dry with the humidifier kicking on very infrequent and only in the heat of the summer. Given the age of the house I can say with confidence that the slab is not insulated. I did put up a heavy mil plastic wrap on the 3 sides of the foundation that are beneath grade plus 1/2 inch eps for a meager thermal block.
The sub floor is T&G and even with my bad sinuses, it did not appear to have the odder in the kitchen or bath when I ripped the particle board up.
Thanks for the input.
Hope it all works for you, I have use just plain ole laxtex, but the kilz will do you a better job.
This was the original cause of water ingression. The gutters were rotted from the acid in pine needles. Cut the trees that were bumping against the roof drip edge(roots had blown out a part of side wall of foundation), excavated the foundation to the slab repaired cracked walls and replaced loose mortar, made a cement form for blown out blocks filled with a stone cement and rebar combo, French drain, back filled foundation and replaced all gutters plus new roofing. The soil is heavy expansive clay, foundation is 12 inch hollow block wall put together cheap (no grout filling or rebar). The interior foundation now has 1/4 inch 2 x 4 steel tubing bolted to the floor joists and grouted with 1/2 inch bolts to the slab, with mortar for full contact with block wall spacing about 4 foot apart. Just now getting to work inside. New kitchen floor. Removed particle floor in the bath replaced with ply and ceramic tile. Felt the smell would be gone when old carpet and pad were removed, but no dice.
Again thanks for the reply and suggestions.
http://www.odorxit.com/?home~mi
Looks promising. The web site was last updated Sept. 07. Not sure is it is still being maintained. Tried clicking on where to buy. Next tried order online, then ask questions. Non of the links appear operational. Will try their 800 number to see if I can get through.
Thanks.
I think you need to establish that this is *NOT* associated with a moisture/mold/rot problem. If you can, and only if you can, then do as others have said....rip out carpet, paint Kilz, or whatever.
Scott.
I did fail to mention that it has a full basement (dry) since I repaired the foundation walls and put in a French Drain. Basement is a finished basement. The carpet in the basement had mold because the cracked wall letting water in during heavy rains. We removed the carpet 2 years back and have a dehumidifier running for residual moisture in the air. One foundation wall is fully exposed, the 2 sides are partially exposed, leaving one wall fully back filled. In other words it is situated on a hill.
We are at some 12 foot elevation above and 80 feet back from waters edge.
The smell is definitely coming from the particle board. As explained to Piffin, once the carpet was removed there were a few stains (either pet or human made) on the flooring upstairs. The pieces I have in the trailer are as clean as the day it was laid, but gives off a bad odder on hot days. Almost smells like raw sewage.
At this point I am resigned to ripping it out. Wanted to know if anyone else ever ran across this problem and how they resolved it.
I know that a house when vacated a while will let in sewage gas as the P traps dry out, but we have been working away on this for a few years occupying it on weekends with lots of room deodorizers.
Thanks again for your thoughts and comments.
wont directly relate to you but sill a good story. Had a friend that worked for a spa/firplace company. one crew (his) got sent to mainland spa install, other got sent to island fireplace install.
FP install was going well till they drilled gas line access hole fromm above, everyone ran from the home. home owner offered them hundreds in tips to get under and get the job done. apparently an otter had taken up residence with all the requisite clam/fish/etc. rotting refuse under the crawl space. much vomitting ensued in the install.
parable, what else is going on? board just dont start stinkin on its own. welcome to the waterfront.
"It is like a de-gasing of the floor board driven by heat."
Until this final statement I had no idea if this smell was pet odor, mildews, other stuff, or the typical 780's formaldehyde off-gassing. That diod sometimes get worse witjh age and heat, instead of stabilizing. I remember the funk odor. I would get that board out of there myself, but if you aren't up to the job ( really not that hard once you get over the mental block) then paint/seal it in.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks for your thoughts on this. I somehow felt it was some process in the manufacture of the particle board. There were some minor stains that indicated either pet or human spills, but nothing substantial. I guess my Fein is going to the acid test with all the cutting needed to get close to the framed walls. Might try to find a blade to fit a right angle grinder to cut as it will be considerably faster than the Fein...
I would agree that the best method is total removal, and I have removed loads of particle board underlayment. Sometimes it goes well (if it has remained dry) other times not so much.Fein MM is not the proper tool for the job.While a MM would certainly work, it is just too slow and weak.The proper tool is a "flush cut" AKA "toe-kick" saw. They are commonly available as rentals.DC
Not sure if the rental places here would have such a sophisticated tool like a flush cut saw. Can't even find scaffolding for working on our current home. Bought a circa 1900 home. Been removing the warped and cracked beveled clapboards, nailing up 1/2 sheathing, blowing in cellulose, covering with eps, Tyvec and new clapboards. Hate to have to buy the scaffolding but when I reach the other side of the house I will need something to get me up some 18-20 feet but then I am diverging.
I will call a few of these place perhaps they can redirect me even if it means missing a rental.
Thanks
Electric chainsaw will make the cut at the walls.
Just ensure all the nails or screw are removed first.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Wow, I live in a podunk village (pop. less than 2000) and there is a rental house slash chainsaw repair shop slash etc. that carries a toe kick saw. They also carry scaffold though.I've never seen a tool rental yard house that didn't have scaffold.Nevertheless, I looked online for you and see that HF carries one:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94626Here's one at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Crain-795-Toe-Kick-Saw-Kit/dp/B0007V11C8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=hiqid=1247841167&sr=1-3There were 10 available on Ebay:
http://shop.ebay.com:80/items/__toe-kick-saw?_nkw=toe+kick+saw+&_cqr=true&_nkwusc=saw&_rdc=1Many other buying options on Google Shopping:
http://www.google.com/products?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=toe%20kick%20saw&oe=UTF-8um=1&ie=UTF-8sa=N&hl=entab=wfGood luck
DC
We have a number of rental places but it is the obvious tools, bushwhackers, concrete saws, hammer drills, regular circular saws nothing to extreme. Population about 38-40K. It's a college town, 4 Lowes and 2 Home Depots within a 15 minute drive. When we lived in Houston, Home Depot had a great tool rental business. These guys don't do rentals. Though they have gotten better with their inventory, 7 years back their inventory control was poor. It's been frustrating and a bit of Easter Egg hunt to find materials. Meeks, Rideout Lumber and the big boxes along with privately owned home building stores all basically carry the same dam inventory. Some of the latest and greatest that FHB and JLC depict in their articles just aren't available. So I'm always doing a work around or placing special orders $$$$$.
Just called Harbor Freight next town over and they have 9 flush cut saws. Will swing by this evening and snag one for future and perhaps present use.
Thanks to all the great ideas and sources of tools. I'll be painting and or tearing up floors soon. These two projects are never ending. My wife brags she keeps me out of trouble buying fixer-uppers. Though I am semi retired I feel like I am working full time again.
This would work too.http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94626View Image
With walls stripped to studs, I use a sawsal for most of it. The fein will work fine though. I replaced all the wide plank flooring in a thousand square feet with a fein while not hurting the baseboards a lick.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
This is the saw to use if you remove the particle board.
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=crain+jamb+saw&tag=googhydr-20&index=tools&hvadid=1099583021&ref=pd_sl_61316mod9u_b
One of my clients bought a home a few years ago.. When they had walked through it a few times, the AC had always been cranked up.
Well, they bought it, and then they walked through it on a hot summer day without the AC on. It reeked of cat ####.
All the first floor carpet got ripped out, and there was so much damage (around the perimeter of many rooms) to the particleboard underlayment (from cat ####) that the top layer of all of the first floor particleboard was ripped out and replaced.
If yours is not damaged (beyond the smell), I would think sealing it would certainly help.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
You guys have great suggestions and cannot thank you all enough. I just might add that Toe Kick Saw that Harbor Freight has to my workshop. Running out of room in my current home for the collection of tools accumulated. May open a rental when I am through with the work on both places. I am going to try taking one of the bedrooms and painting the floor with Kilz then tape the perimeter of the door shut. Will check back to see if the foul smell is sealed in or not. It would be a time saver not to mention the cash outlay for new plywood.
>>>Running out of room in my current home for the collection of tools accumulated.There is no better reason for a new house! And if you buy a big ol' fixer-upper, you get to buy more tools to do the work with!!!Scott.
I love your attitude. A man after my own heart. I have resigned myself to keeping out of trouble, but buying a new tool when ever the opportunity presents its self is addictive.
Our current home has a 3/4 basement. Would have been a great workshop, but the down stairs was semi-finished leaving a small corner for 2 racks of small power tools, boiler room is full too. Built a tool shed last year for the excess and it is now full.
Bad smelling particle floor
I have done several remodels & the worst include particle board floors.
Repair
- Ventilation -- If there is a continuous ground dampness problem, try to alleviate it by adding ventilation.
In the case of mobile homes vents are often made smaller when homes were re-sided.
In the case of a crawl space in a normal home ventilation may be inadequate or may not exist at all. In either case, fixing this is a must
-- Add a Vapor barrier - A vapor barrier on the ground will lower the moisture content in the air above & lessen the the continuous effect. (note, the heavier the mil the better. Tape the seams with vinyl tape - packaging tape can come lose)
-- REPLACE - Use :Sub Floor" plywood to replace particle bd. that has swollen & gotten soft, especially above crawl spaces. It is more resistant to deterioriation.
MOLD
-- Use a mold abatement product, many of the home remedies work well also.
SMELL
-- Ah the arduous task of getting rid of the stinky particle board smell!
--Notoriously, particle board continues to smell bad even after drying out. The best remedy other than replacing it is to paint the "ENTIRE SURFACE" with an OIL BASE primer. DO NOT SKIMP ON THIS STEP. Latex paints breathe & will allow the fumes right thru.
- OK Ca. has banned the sale of oil based paints - what to do, what to do?
Fortunately they can still sell (2 yr. ago) oil based primer for block & concrete walls. I found it was thicker than normal but you can thin it with mineral spirits.
-- THE SMELL IS IN THE RETURN AIR DUCTS
-Some homes have return air ducts that were created by enclosing the space between the floor joists by covering the bottom of that space with sheet metal and using that enclosed channel for return air flow, thus allowing the smell into the HVAC system.
- If this happens to be the case, remove the sheet metal & paint the entire cavity (Oil Base) then replace/reseal the sheet metal.
- Many older mobile homes use an up-flow furnace/AC which draws return air from below (between the joists as above). This is much the same in that the particle board is exposed to the inside of the return air duct. However the construction methods of mobile homes makes it almost impossible to do the above repair.
- For this problem, I found it necessary to block off most of the return air duct & add a new flexible duct to a central wall or closet wall.
- For this, you will need to consult your local HVAC professional.
GOOD LUCK!
My house was a repo that sat empty for almost a year... in a woods... with a hole allowing racoons, cats, etc to get in and use the place as their personal playground and toilet. The ammonia smell the first I time I walked in was so strong it made my eyes burn. Took me over two years of nights and weekend before I was able to move in; but I've been living here for 4 years now without any hint of that horrible smell. Even had a house cat living here for a couple of years that never sprayed or showed any indication of noticing the smell of the prior animals. Here's what I did:
1. All carpet and pad gone. Don't even try to rent a carpet shampooer. I tried that and it seemed to help... for about 3 days. Once it soaks into the subfloor, there is no hope for keeping any existing flooring.
2. I bought 3 gallons of Odo-Ban and a pump-up sprayer. The package says mix 10 parts water to 1 part Odo-Ban. NO. I kept that stuff at full concentration and sprayed every floor, wall, and ceiling in the place. Kept all of the windows and doors shut for a week, then opened all of the windows for a few days with several fans running.
3. I tore out much of the drywall during the renovation process, anyway. I don't think this was a critical step for odor removal (subfloors seemed to be the biggest culprit); but it probably helped.
4. What made the biggest difference: I sealed all of the subfloor and any remaining drywall with Zinsser B-I-N shellac-based primer. Two coats on the subfloor. This is nasty, nasty stuff to work with. If you don't own a respirator, get one. It works wonders, though. Once it cured, I have never had another issue with the animal smell.
Now, as others have said, you need to determine that what is causing the smell and make sure that is addressed. In my case it was animals; not mold/mildew/etc. If that is done, though, the shellac-based primer should make a huge improvement.