Replies

1. 
   HeavyDuty | Jan 30, 2004 06:43am | #1

   Say you use 4" as the spacing then you'll have

   1 space + 1 spindle = 5.75"

   divide that into 144", you get 25.04

   bear in mind that the number of spaces = the number of spindles + 1

   so you have 25 spindles and you have 144" - 25x1.75" = 100.25" left for 26 spaces

   so each space is 100.25" divided by 26 = 3.856"

1. 
   joewood | Jan 30, 2004 08:05am | #2

   Here's a good and easy way to get even spacing. When you get to the online album, click on the pic. After it opens, look down to the right and click View>Full Screen.

   http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/com.hp.HPGuestLogin?username=joe_wood&password=89366930

2. 
   noitall | Jan 30, 2004 08:32am | #3

   I guess I look at a little different.

   25.04 = 26 spaces so there is 25 spindels. I either start the first spindle on the center line or one half space off, depending on the # of spindels. That is only because I usually finish to a full or half newell and don't have one to start. Both methods work it is just a different way of looking at it.

   Just one word of caution not already mentioned is that we don't let any space on the length of the spindle over 4".  I find that if I use a spindle with  a taper turn to the rail then the largest center I will set is 5 3/8". I usually end up setting everything to 5" though since that is all the fingers I have on one hand. Makes it really easy to count. I can still hang on the the coffee when I layout.

   Scott T.

1. 
   HeavyDuty | Jan 31, 2004 01:13am | #4

   Just one word of caution not already mentioned is that we don't let any space on the length of the spindle over 4". 

   Forgot to mention that one, excellent point. Thanks.

2. 
   PaulParadis | Jan 31, 2004 01:45am | #5

   Twelve feet seems to be a little long without a post in between, make sure the rail is strong enough.  Also keep in mind on a rake rail the spacing would be closer to 7 1/2 inches on center to get the same 4" in between the balusters.

   We become by effort primarily what we end up becoming

    - Zig Ziglar

3. 
   finishcarp | Jan 31, 2004 02:07am | #6

   YOu sould also make sure that the spacing IN BETWEEN THE TURNINGS on the spindles does not exceed the 4" spacing as sometimes with the deep turnings it gets to be a problem  Here in  Ontario the building code says that the maximum allowable "gap" is NOT to allow a 4" spherical object through any portion of the rail.  If you are running the spacing close to maximum you may want to layout the spindles/ newel post on the floor at the proposed spacing to see if you arre happy.  As well the maximum rail length without an additional newel post is 9' so your length might  have to be split - you may want to check with your local building dept.

   First we get good- then we get fast !

4. 
   gdcarpenter | Jan 31, 2004 03:39am | #7

   You most often won't be able to get exactly 4" spacing.

   Total run                          =144.00"                                                          

   Minus 25 spindles @ 1.75" ea = 43.75"

   Equals leftover space         =100.25"

   Divided by 26 spaces          =3.856"

   Or approximately 3 7/8" give or take.

   Course if each spindle is even slightly more or less than 1.75", over 25 spindles that can make a whole bit of a difference.  I usually start in from opposing sides and check my measurements as I near the middle if I'm not absolutley sure of the exact width of the picket or whatever you call it.

   Let's not confuse the issue with facts!

1. 
   Sphere | Jan 31, 2004 03:59am | #8

   a 'baluster'..from balustrade..which is a bunch of pickets.

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

5. 
   gdavis62 | Jan 31, 2004 06:12am | #9

   Here in the Adirondack mountains of upstate New York, the "great camp" style rules when high-end vacation homes are built.  Staircases are built from peeled logs, and cedar and birch twigging is artistically eyeballed into place for the balustrades.  No measurements taken or used.  The 4-inch rule is ignored.  There are many openings through which a partridge can fly at full tilt. 

   Do we lose many babies and dogs, not using this very important code safety rule?  Not too many, I hope.

1. 
   noitall | Jan 31, 2004 07:36am | #10

   At least the partridge fly free without having to worry. Mabey just keep the door closed. I woulden't worry about the kids being lost through the twig spindles as much as the damb dingos carting them away.

   Just a note again to a previous post . I don't alter all my spacings on a run  of rail to fit the length. I keep them usually at 5" and Just have the end spaces greater than 1/2 a space in size. That is what I meant on a previoius post when I said that I either have the first spindle on or 1/2 off center. As I said before, I can layout with one hand still on the coffee cup.

   One other note I thought I might add would be for the connection of the spindle to the floor or tread. I cut off the wooden tennon and replace it with a metal double ended lag screw. Poly glue on the thread and that spindle is rock solid. Just don't use too much that it squeezes out all over the place. It can be a problem to clean up if you don't notice it.

   Scott T.

6. 
   dIrishInMe | Jan 31, 2004 05:13pm | #11

   Look for a post form Stan Foster, he is the "stair master carpenter".  I am not, but will say that if these stairs are to have the balusters attached to the steps themselves, although you should observe the 4" max space rule, you will space the "pickets" so that they look right - ie 3 per step, or whatever.  On the other hand if the bottom of the pickets are to be terminated at a bottom rail, figure your spacing as some folks have detailed above.

   Personally, I like to put pickets closer than 4".  I think it looks better, but that's just my taste.  One thing I can't stand though is when the 2 spaces at either end are not the same, and they should be somewhere close, within an inch or so, to what the rest of the spaces are.  Again, it's just my opinion, but when the end spaces aren't right, (or any other paces for that matter), it just reeks poor workmanship or inexperience.  Also, personally, I don't like the look that  some people do on decks where a picket is slam up against a newel post.
     

   Matt
1. 
   Sphere | Jan 31, 2004 05:31pm | #12

   I don't like the look that  some people do on decks where a picket is slam up against a newel post.  

   Or worse..a half baluster..nailed to a post..

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

1. 
   xMikeSmith | Jan 31, 2004 09:58pm | #13

   oooops....

    neither do i ...but one of my favorite deck builders does it that way

   if the balusters are uniform i usually measure about 10 of them to establish an accurate average width..

   then i take the opening width for the rail  and divide by 5" for a 1st run..

   say we have 92" rail..  and the balusters are 1 1/16"  92/5 = 18.4 say 19 spaces

   which would be 18 balusters

   18x 1 1/16 = 19 1/8"  total width of all the balusters  ( 92 - 19 1/8 = 72 7/8)

   72 7/8 / 19 = 3.8355  (3 13/16 - ) those are my spacer blocks ===that's about as close as you can get to a 4" space  

    so  18 balusters  with 19 spaces of 3 13/16(-1 mch)...

   that is uniform spacing.. but i always feel the first and last space should be modified to fool the eye... if i start layout from center.. the first and last space will get some creep to make them a tad narrower anyways..

   Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   Sphere | Jan 31, 2004 10:16pm | #14

   ok on the ooops...I do almost exactly the same..with balusters , not the ooops.  If that 18.4 was me, I'd just round down..same thing and if it is an odd# of balusters I start dead center..even# center of space on center..pretty easy. My last rail (an IPE deck) had a lower 2x4 flat, up to a sub top rail (dado'd for sq. balusters) capped with a 2x4 flat, then a 6" opening then the cap rail 5/4 x6 with a profile ..what was interesting was we alternated 3/4 "" black alum. pipe and 2x2 balusters..the pipe was captured in drilled holes..fine and dandy till the STEP rails..drilling 3/4" holes at a 34* angle in IPE..used the HO's shop smith..(any relation? <G>)..oh the space between sub top rail and top rail was for....HO's favoruite beverage glass's.  I will see if he'll email me a pic..it was a great deck. I hate #1 sq.dr. SS screws..still.

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

2. 
   HeavyDuty | Feb 01, 2004 02:44am | #15

   >>that is uniform spacing.. but i always feel the first and last space should be modified to fool the eye.

   Good point Mike, I can see you are an artist. Because the end spindles are closer to something more substantial, be it a post, half post or a wall, I think the smaller end spacings make a better tie-in to the whole thing. More or less like the vanes on the radiator grille of a Rolls Royce, they are purposely set not exactly parallel so they look parallel.

1. 
   Sphere | Feb 01, 2004 03:10am | #16

   like 'entasis'  it is a good practice...tromp l'oeai...or some spelling for 'fool the eye'

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

2. 
   jonblakemore | Feb 01, 2004 03:12am | #17

   I always notice if the balusters are spaced evenly, or if they started layout in the center and have different end spacing, or if they just started from one end and let the other side be what it is (gasp).

   Does anybody have a customer that has complained about he unequal spacing?  Or mentioned the issue before the job commenced?  It seems to me that this is one of those things that the carpenters notice, but most others never do...

   Anyone have it the other way? 

   Jon Blakemore

3. 
   Sphere | Feb 01, 2004 03:19am | #18

   No, no one notices. But by god when they want something OTHER than code..I have heard.."well, staple chicken wire up until after the inspection" and things of that nature. Do it right and have some know it?  Not yet.

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?

4. 
   HeavyDuty | Feb 01, 2004 08:34am | #19

   Do it right and have some know it?  Not yet.

   You want to keep it that way. Do it wrong and they jump all over you.

7. 
   baseboardking | Feb 03, 2004 01:32am | #20

   In your leisure time, take a Sharpie marker, and mark 4" centers on a 16ft. tape. When laying out your flat rails, simply lay the extended tape centered on the workpiece, and transfer the marks. Be sure that the maximum spacing anywhere is 4"( "a 4inch sphere cannot pass..")

   Baseboard been VERRRY good to me
1. 
   Sphere | Feb 03, 2004 02:15am | #21

   Ummm...That's a SIX FOOT ..4" SPHERE to you. lol

   Go Stab yourself Ya Putz! Ya think I Parked here?