As part of my slow descent in Hades over remodeling our home, I now have a 3 way pissing match between painter, carpenter and flooring co. Someone needs to decide who goes first! I got irate and gave flooring the green light. The painter wanted to put up trim before the floors went in so he could paint in place. Slipping wood under trim gives me the willys, as the baseboard trim has a sharp lower edge.
I also have a problem with the finish in place flooring creating a lot dust. The smooth walls will have to be dusted down after all that sanding. Several painters have noted that this can burnish the smooth paint if you start rubbing on it. OK I say.
So, I finally tired of the 3 way fist , I mean conversation, and told the floor guys to schedule. Seems to me the floor can always be cleaned up, even sanded if need be, but if the smooth paint gets messed up, its time to start over. Comments? If I am an idiot, I can handle that. But this who goes first business makes me nuts!
Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities- Voltaire
Replies
It's always "me first" no matter who yer dealing with.
I wanted my floor guys in first cause I know what those guys do to walls.
But the DW wanted to paint first, then she got pizzed at a chip here & there then we had to re-paint all over again.
Floors are the easiest thing to mask & or protect from other trades.
Do you look to the government for an entitlement, or to GOD for empowerment. BDW
floors first, trim next,paint last,they don't call it a finish coat for nuthin!
Whew! I was tiring of the "me first" game. Even if the painter has to do more work and charge for it, its done right. Last time I did a project like this on my own, the plumber tossed pipe down a room and holed a wall. Cost me bucks to fix it, and I would have been smarter to know that the plumber was married to the drywaller's daughter! Adds new meaning to family business!
I think tucking flooring in under base trim just sounds too much like a PIA waiting to happen. Plus, urethane floor coating cleans up pretty nicely if need be. Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities- Voltaire
If prefinished floors, floors installed first then trim primed and painted one coat, install shoe, fill trim and paint second coat.
If unfinished floors,...Install floors first , install trim, paint walls & trim with primer and one coat paint, sand floors & finish, install shoe, fill trim paint final on trim & touch up on walls.
Have a beer.
Gee I thought I lived in an ideal world! If I tried that, all parties would arm themselves with Kalashnikovs and start shooting! It is however a good idea. The fear is that one paint spill into unfinished bamboo and I am hosed. I would prefer to have the urethane down first, just for insurance, in case the "that won't happen" indeed happens, which it does at my house quite often!Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities- Voltaire
On my job sites, flooring always goes first, then trim, then paint. What I've gotten in the habit of doing when I install the trim however, is to apply painter's tape (the milky-clear stuff) to the floor. This way the painter has a very easy time painting against the floor, and then the tape can be cut with a sharp knife and pulled up. In a perfect world, The walls would be primed and painted with the first coat prior to trim, and the trim would be the same before installation. However, unless you are doing all of the work yourself, this is a scheduling nightmare. No matter what, the last coat of paint should be done last - both because of touch-ups, bust mostly because I think that all painted trim should be caulked to the wall and cut in. This results in by far the most elegant result.Good luck!
Even though I ignored this advice, I believe the its floors, trim, paint trim, then paint the walls.
I did floor, paint walls, then paint trim. I painted the walls and my cousin (who runs a painting business) was not amused with painting the trim after the walls.
Fortunately, the base will match the walls, so they can do both together. The doors and door casing will be contrasting, so they need to be different anyway.Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities- Voltaire
You think you've got problems? We finished a home theater for a client, very high end, and the floor was carpet except for a strip around the outside edge which was about two and 1/2 feet of hardwood flooring. Five month project at an end, plasma screen in and working, automatic drapes close when lights are dimmed, sound system right on and everything ready to go but the bass speakers didn't arrive on time. About ten in the morning two "crack" speaker installers arrive with speakers in hand, actually one speaker with two guys carrying it up stairs, to install in the theater. Each speaker weighs probably 70 lbs (guess) and are about a foot in cross section and five feet tall. These so called professionals, haul the speakers upstairs and plant them right on top of the hardwood floor. Of course, they move them around to get the direction right and we go upstairs to observe the final install and what do we see, huge, and I mean huge gouge marks and scratches in the hardwood floor. Turns out these speakers have three very sharp and pointed spikes, about an inch long, on the bottom of each speaker to allow the optimum sound quality out to the listener.
Now, just how much common sense does it take to know that setting these down on a hardwood floor and then sliding the speaker around is going to damage the floor? I ask you...is it asking too much to expect professionals to be a little considerate? It was all we could do to keep from tossing these clowns out the second floor window. And these were PROFESSIONALS!
One of the companies my boss owns does home theater installs, and they don't send the smart ones to do them. They'll let just about anybody install that stuff.
Twistin' with Lucy, Doin' the Watusi, Roll over on your back, I like it like that Do that Jerk-uh,Watch me work y'all, Ow! Do it!
I do very high-end custom sound installs in multi-million dollar places for a local stereo store. Those spikes are made to go through the carpet to the subfloor. They unscrew so that rubber feet made for hard floors can be installed. Nice work guys!
We do it backwards, not that there's a right or wrong. Trim goes in first. If the floor is unfinished hardwood, that goes in before trim, but just in. When the trim is done, painter comes, then hardwood sanded and finished. Then everyone with a punch list has shoes off or bootie covers. I believe the thinking here is touching up a scuff in a wall is easier than a scuff in a floor, because floors tend to really show lines.
Reality is though, if you're playing GC, whatever you decide you want, you get. Just grab the checkbook. What I mean is, someone who bid to do it one way, and the other way costs them time, you're going to have to compensate them. But it all comes out in the wash. Someone has an easier life, someone doesnt.
"Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton
Exactly. I just feel that I can work with protecting a relatively hard floor vs a soft wall. So I pay the painter more. Splashing urethane on trim in place vs masking off a floor is a no brainer. The floor is tougher and paint don't stick to splashed urethane on trim.Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities- Voltaire
With picky customers, finishing the floor before everything else will guarantee the floor guys will need to come back and refinish it. A new floor is so soft for the first month or so that the only way we've found to protect the floor from all scratches is to lay down those reusable 1/2" thick foam floor mats that interlock (about $1 a square foot?) and blue tape the dickens out of the edges.
I have yet to see a rosin paper covering properly protect a newly finished floor. At least not with our clients.
I also have yet to see a floor turn out well if finished after the trim is in. It's wishful thinking pure and simple, not to mention the painters will have to be good at fixing sanding scars on the trim.
Personally, it seems to produce the best overall results with the least rework by having the flooring guys sand and seal after the walls are painted, but save the finish coat until the trim and cabinets are in.
You ever tried that Clean & Safe dropcloth stuff? I know I use the cheaper version, they've got one made for what you're talking about - hardwood that the finish still needs to cure on. Or grout where it needs to dry. Its not cheap, but its not a buck a foot, and its reusable. Might be worth a look. http://www.dropcloth.com think I got that addy right."Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton
My GC likes to put the first 3 coats on the floor, cure for at least 48 hours, then protect with Ram Board (very heavy cardbaord in rolls) over a rosin-paper-looking plastic. In the heavy traffic areas he puts down 1/4" hardboard as well.
Then cabinets & counters, trim, paint, etc. Finally one last screening and the 4th coat of poly on the floor. I suspect that his floor guys don't really like the approach, but he gives them plenty of work - just one reason I didn't DYI :-).
wow i trim first then paint then floor .i find around here even if the floor is covered ya still get dirt under the covering and scratch .not to mention the crap that get's drop from differnt trades Whooppps sorry and when ya got thirty doors to hang who wants to take the chance of dinting the floor
But i have floored first and the painter covered the floor with paint what a mess.and he used drop sheets Duh
i just leave 3/4 for tile and hard wood and 13/16 on base board use shoe on hard floors
and 7/16 for carpet works great for me
I didn't read every word of this thread, but like most say it's floors, trim, then paint. If you can, have the floor man leave his final coat off, then he can buff and recoat right at the end.
There is NO WAY you would voluntarily choose to have flooring installed if the walls are already done.
There is NO F'ing WAY you would ever try to slip flooring under existing baseboards and then sand it.
Do stuff like that and your subs will stop showing up. You need a trim guy who can work on finished floors. Anyone good will have shoes they use for that, not their regular boots. You need painters who can and will protect anything they have to, and cut in against flooring after the shoe is installed.
Our original bidder sort of scared me by wanting to do trim first. When I called an older established paint company I had used before, they made a nice comment that went like this: We been doing this 40 years. If we can't protect the floors, its our problem. He also pointed out that rubbing floor dust off of smooth walls burnishes the paint and then you have rub marks. Maybe that is why I remember hiring them 10 years ago. Sort of a no bs operation. I paid more, but that seems ok in the end. No hidden charges on his bid either.Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities- Voltaire