I’m about to begin a long project to finish my basement and had a couple of questions. Any suggestions, even beyond what I’ve asked, will be appreciated.
- Can plaster be applied directly to the concrete foundation walls, and if so, should it be? If not, can a stucco or concrete product be used? I like this idea as we’re shooting for an industrial look in the basement (so we’ll go with a kind of grey pigment in the plaster), and it also maximizes the space which is important to me near the intended pool table (every inch counts there due to a support pole nearby). For background information, I believe the R value of the wall is probably sufficient as it is 10†thick concrete with 2†of rigid foam insulation on the exterior from grade down to the footing. It also has waterproofing, which is an asphalt spray mixture with fiber woven in. The site drains very well with no water entering the sump drain during the worst spring I’ve lived through up here. One last point, the concrete walls are relatively smooth as aluminum forms were used, though there is sufficient pitting from air bubbles that there should be some bite.
- Has anyone seen recommendations on correct dimensions for a home theater, like width as a proportion of depth? I have an excellent guide for wall construction, but nothing on size or shape. I’m not planning on a huge theater, just something for 5 or 6 people at maximum.
- I’d like to have a wall of glass around the workout area to let sunlight through. What’s the cheapest way to do this? I’d prefer floor to ceiling glass, though I believe they’d have to be tempered and could be expensive.
Replies
Edited 8/21/2004 8:18 pm ET by Dez
Dez,
Thanks for the suggestion, believe it or not that hadn't occurred to me. I don't think I like the look as it is, but maybe with a clear coat or some paint. I'll probably experiment with this idea in the furnace area that won't be finished. Thanks for taking the time to suggest this.
Jack
Maybe just stain the concrete walls. Since they won't have any traffic, you could use Minwax or Olympic or something. You could stucco directly to the concrete with the proper primer.
Or, for an industrial look ... fasten plywood panels to the walls with mushroom anchors. Cut the plywood down a little so there's 2-3 inches off the floor and below the ceiling, and between panels. Paint the ply battleship grey, and the mushrooms would look like rivets.
Or use sheets of galvanized roof panels. Find a farmer in your area that has a metal roof on a utility building, and offer to buy the old ones off his roof so you get weathered panels.
There was a short article on home theaters ... the design column I think ... in an issue this year.
Use glass blocks. They are available in many "textures" from almost visible to very opaque. One problem with floor to ceiling glass ... how would you get it down the stairs and into the basement?
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Edited 8/21/2004 9:49 pm ET by Ed Hilton
Ed,
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I hadn't thought of staining it directly and this might work out. As far as the riveted panels, that is also worth considering and would definitely be unique, I could paint the wall grey and the panels a primer red or something like that. Glass block is also an excellent idea, though I would need a mason for that (don't trust myself) and I happen to know a good one, I'll ask him for a guesstimate on price.
Thanks again - Jack
The glass really would have to be tempered for safety. The risk is just too high. May be required by code, too.
How about glass block? Or glass block topped by windows? Why would the workout area need to be separated at all?
Wayne,
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I agree, it probably would be required by code. I want to seperate the area as I have some rusty old Olympic weights that probably wouldn't impress anyone if we entertain. For that reason the glass block might be a better idea as a clear window might not help that situation.
Thanks again - Jack
We use perlited gypsum plaster directly on our concrete houses. Easy to work.
Cheapest tempered glass will be recycled sliding door panels. Free around here.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
VaTom,
Thanks, both are great suggestions. Where do you find the recycled patio doors, at the lumber yard?
Jack
Where do you find the recycled patio doors, at the lumber yard?
Can't imagine they'd bother to keep any. We have a couple of local ad papers, nothing but free ads for the HO sellers. Last time I bothered to call, I got 12 panels and the guy was delighted to get my call. Turned out it was the 3rd time he'd run the ad with no previous response. Probably would have delivered them if I'd asked.
If nothing like this exists in your area, call the glass companies or anybody who might replace fogged panels. Watch out for excessive fogging, as it's very difficult to get the minerals, or whatever, off the glass. For my kiln, translucent is fine. Often a simple cleaning, after you separate the panes, will suffice.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
The other posters had pretty good replies about plaster and so on, but there are several points I'd like to make: The idea of using perlite in the stucco is good because of potential problem with sound reflecting off of a hard, flat surface. Secondly, echoes from parallel walls may be a problem. My brother is an audiophile and he wants to build a home theater/stereo listening room with the side walls angled 15 degrees (I'm trying to discourage him because of the expense, but....). Same thing with a huge window--I would think it would tend to vibrate. I'd use lots of insulation and sound deadening surfaces. Maybe even tapestries on the walls. Break up planes into slightly angles surfaces if possible using even pieces of upholstered plywood at random or adjustable angles (or cover the plywood with industrial felt, carpet, carpet pad, etc.. (Not egg cartons))
Before the idea of non-parallel walls, my bro wanted to use the "Golden Section" for room proportions, saying that several audiophiles he knew recommended that as best for sound. That means the long walls would be five units long and short walls three (or long something like 1.618 x the length of the short). I think what works on a huge scale in a real auditorium or orchesta hall probably won't work on a small scale in a home. Maybe need an adjustment constant like are used when scaling down from real airplanes to models to get correct aerodynamics. (Reynold's numbers.)
Danno,
Thanks for taking the time to respond. You're probably right, the dimension thing is insignificant in a small home theater. The theater room will be seperated from the rest of the basement so I won't need to contend with the windows. If your brother in law is interested I have an excellent article on wall construction for a theater, including techniques to measure the acoustics with simple instruments after you're finished to help decide if you need wall coverings, etc. I can dig up the web address if you answer me back.
Thanks again - Jack
Sure, my brother would appreciate the accoutical info. Thanks. He's a nut about it, that's for sure. I guess we all have our eccentricities. Except for me and my monkey.
Danno,
This is the address of the article I was referring to on construction aspects, there are also a couple of more in that series regarding equipment, etc.
Jack
http://www.hometheatermag.com/bootcamp/140/
Depending on your climate, you may be heading for disaster. I will e-mail you a document on basement insulation.
Edited 8/24/2004 7:26 pm ET by Les
Les,
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I read through the linked article, though not in great detail. It seems to me that what I'm proposing adequately addresses the concerns in the article, namely heat loss (addressed by the exterior installation on the foundation to grade, with insignificant exposed concrete above grade) and moisture movement in from the ground (addressed by the waterproofing, grade, etc). There was one issue, that of moisture dissipation as the concrete dries, that may be worth looking into further. I had planned on allowing 2 years for this to dry before I begin finishing, got that number from a FHB article in the past. Did you see something else of concern in there?
Regards - Jack Gill
From what I gathered reading the article, it is always a bad idea to moisture-proof both sides of a wall. You probably read the part about I think it was five types of moisture movement to worry about. It sounded like your outside wall was completely moisture- proof. If that is the case, I would be very careful about sealing the inside up too. That may not be a problem if you are certain that no moisture can ever get into the wall. If it does, and there is no escape, the wall will remain wet and, depending on the material you use on the inside, you can set up conditions for the growth of mold and the rotting of any wood under the surface. It sounds like you have already decided on a method that will take care of those problems. I may have focused too much on the sealing of both sides of the wall and not enough on what exactly you are doing. I believe many homes have some fairly serious problems due to widespread methods of sealing basements improperly. As these problems were created, builders thought they were doing the best thing and were actually causing problems down the road.Les Barrett Quality Construction
Les,
Thanks for clearing that up. Any idea whether or not the 2 year wait is sufficient to dry the concrete? It would seem to me if the concrete is relatively dry, and I seal both sides of it (waterproofing outside, plaster inside), and have no wood furring, I should have no problems with mold or rot.
Jack
Take a one foot square of poly and tape it to the wall below grade.
There is no precise way of determining drying time. Factors affecting it will include composition (slump, additives, gravel characteristics, mix quality, water added, etc), and humidity and temperature of the area it is drying to. I would say that for a basement in your situation a few months would be quite safe. In 1968, while I was working as a draftsman in San Antonio, I used to see the Tower of the Americas outside my window. At that time, they said the concrete on the inside would take 60 to 100 years to dry. I was impressed with that figure, but can't remember how thick the cross-section was. Keep in mind that concrete can pick up and lose moisture, which is what this is all about; so there will be a point where the moisture content will try to equalize with the environment, which in your case will be the inside of the basement and the dampness of the footing. As long as your plaster is not susceptible to the effects of continual dampness, you will not have to worry about the moisture that may wick up even if you have a wet year. As you may know, some of the moisture in concrete is absorbed into the molecular structure as it cures. The rest is superfluous and will eventually escape as long as the environment has a lower moisture content. Concrete will cure when fully submerged and will perform as expected, as you see with pilings, bridges, and so on.Les Barrett Quality Construction