I was just asked to help finish off a basement and have a few questions. It’s a poured wall basement and the concrete goes from the basement floor up about 3 feet. All that this lady wants done is drywall to cover the concrete. I devised a method I think will work based on what I can remember doing for a builder when I first began building houses but would like any input to see if I am overlooking some problems.
– Use a Ramset to attach 2 X 4’s (should they be treated?) to the concrete 16″ O.C.
Where I have questions are:
1. Should I keep a gap between the lumber and concrete, and if so what do I use to get my gap?
2. Is a vapor barrier needed between the concrete and lumber? (The basement has never had any moisture problems yet, but it is only about a 3 year old build).
3. They are not planning on insulating, but if they change their minds are there any extra precautions I should take?
4. Could I save them some money by using 1 X 4’s if they skip the insulation instead?
5. Can I get away with untreated lumber, or should it be green?
6. Was thinking of cutting notches on the backside of the 2 X 4’s to run electrical wires. Good idea or is there a better way?
Thanks for any help in advance.
Edited 8/25/2004 6:36 pm ET by Derek
Replies
Just finished doing a basement wall project. Code here (CT) said Pressure treated hard to the floor. And a tip- if your floor is a little wavy, just put a few saw kerfs in the board as needed before you shoot your nails, it will lie flat that way.
But on top of that, think about light gauge steel framing. Quick, easy, cheaper than wood. And if you don't have to insulate, you can use narrower channels and studs-if I recall they're 1 5/8 instead of 3 1/2 .
There was an article in FHB magazine a few years ago with the technique.
Steve
Edited 8/25/2004 6:39 pm ET by Steve
Derek,
Any lumber in contact with concrete must be treated, or redwood ( heart I believe ). I highly recommend a framed wall with a PT plate standing 1" or so away from the concrete. It will provide a much straighter wall, plus give you the room for electrical, insulation, any HVAC and plumbing you might need. I don't think trying to snake romex through a notch in the back of a 2 x 4 will be all that much fun, plus with the narrow profile of the wall, pancake boxes will have to be used, and they fill up pretty quick.
I've done one basement with light gauge steel, and the jurys still out on that. It sure is easy to carry and cut a unit of studs to the basement, but when your used to working with wood, there is a learning curve.
Cole
Cole Dean
Dean Contracting
I can only speak to code here - and while I think it basically follows the IRC, that may or may not be the case. If the wood is in direct contact with the concrete and is below grade, (wall or floor), then it must be treated. A wood framed wall stood off from the concrete only needs a PT sill. If all you're hanging is drywall, 1x2's can get you there, but good luck with outlets.
Zchannel - the metal alternative, is good stuff, and if you get it 1 1/2 offset you can get a decent R factor out of EPS and have room for shallow boxes. Personally, I like light gauge steel. There is a learning curve, but it's not huge, and the tools necessary to work with it are likely in most carpenters trucks anyway. At least when all you're dealing with is non load bearing partition walls. Honestly, I like the 3 5/8 20 ga the best. Its still "light", but it is decidedly more sturdy, which I like in a basement where you're not adding rigity to the structure by rocking the opposite side. But I have also used 2 5/8 in the name of saving inches. And it saves a few bucks too.
As to the vapor barrier, that's a continuous debate around here. Again, the code here says on the warm face of the wall, which would be right behind the rock. But there's all kinds of good reasons for doing things different. Ideally, EPS outside the foundation. I've also seen plastic sheeting on the wall, behind the offset wall, because the foundation itself was somewhat suspect and the powers that be decided any moisture that did get in was better directed to the floor.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
I would suggest rigid foam to isolate framing from concrete wall. This gives you a VB and insulation to prevent condensation. Otherwise, you create a nasty enclosed damp wall cavity.
How are you treating the floor?
Thanks for all the replies guys. I think I am going to settle on using the PT sill and keep the framing a little ways from the concrete. The floor is going to stay concrete for awhile, but they may end up putting down some carpeting in the future.
They are very undecided on a few things, such as possibly putting a wall in the middle of the basement to seperate it into two rooms, and when/if they are going to carpet.
But thanks again for the help.
Derek
Check this out before doing a basement renovation:
http://www.buildingscience.com/resources/foundations/basement_insulation_systems.pdf
Billy
Edited 8/28/2004 12:30 am ET by Billy
Edited 8/28/2004 12:30 am ET by Billy
Billy,
That's an interesting article, but you left the 'pdf' off the end so the link doesn't work.
"Thanks for all the replies guys. I think I am going to settle on using the PT sill and keep the framing a little ways from the concrete. The floor is going to stay concrete for awhile, but they may end up putting down some carpeting in the future. "
Even though the PT will not rot, it is still absorbent. It would be good to put a roll of sill seal under it to create a break from the concrete.