Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Sep 28, 2000 04:33am | #1

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   No need to SHOUT here, Marty.

   What's the source of your moisture? It sounds like you're treating the effects, but have not addressed the cause. We need to know more about where you think the moisture is coming from.

   Respectfully, Steve

1. 
   Guest_ | Sep 28, 2000 05:36am | #2

   *I'm just a homeowner passing along similar experience.It takes a long time for things to stabilize after you take preventive measures, especially if the ground outside is heavy clay and is already saturated.Also, is there a rain downspout that connects to an underground drain line that is buried under the patio ? Ours had cracked at the elbow where the downspout entered the drain line and saturated the clay soil under the concrete patio and also leaked water into an adjoining basement window well.(The patio, cracked from settling, is gone now.)It's been four years since we stopped the source of the problem, which was as soon as we moved in the house. We can tell there is a big difference and there is no longer any mold growth on the wall during rainy season. But we still have to keep a dehumidifier running to extract moisture that seeps in from the saturated clay soil that is still drying out.One thing I noticed is a lot of moisture can seep in through basement windows, especially if they are the old hopper type steel windows. Rigging up some sort of a secondary barrier or sealing them better around the edges makes a big difference.Also, a lot of humidity can drop down into the basement from the main floor through the basement door, especially if you like to have the windows open during a cool rainy summer day.I have four gallons of DryLok that needs to be applied in the utility room but may wait until Spring.

1. 
   Guest_ | Sep 29, 2000 02:40am | #3

   *Alan, I agree that there should be a dehumidifier in the space. I disagree with your assertion that your clay soils are "still drying out" after four years.What you have now is every day basement humidity. The above average moisture levels from leaky gutters was gone about one month after you fixed the gutters.-Rob

1. 
   Guest_ | Sep 29, 2000 12:14pm | #4

   *Marty,I'm with Steve, treat the problem, not the symptoms.Besure you have good downspout extensions (10' + ) or underground drains, be sure the soil slopes away from the house 10' +. (Extending your downspouts will cost less than 1 gallon of the "hide for a little while" water proofing paint did.During a heavy rain, grab an umbrella and survey around the exterior to see how the water is moving, collecting, etc.Dehumidifier's a good idea, too.

1. 
   Guest_ | Sep 29, 2000 02:57pm | #5

   *Hi, Rob - As someone who is forever tinkering with the house, I'm always open to input, which is why I frequent this site.What you suggest is actually encouraging because I could take less drastic steps in dealing with the grounds surrounding the outside walls of the house.My plan was to excavate the heavy clay just outside the basement wall and put down gravel & perforated drainage channels that leads away from the house, and replace the clay with better soil.The easier plan is to either install a dry laid brick patio or a Trex deck on top of the existing soil. Mounted under the deck would be roofing panels that drain the water away from the deck and house.The clay is so dense it could be shaped into bricks and thrown straight into the oven.Take care,Alan

2. 
   Guest_ | Oct 04, 2000 02:53am | #6

   *O.K. Alan, now the tough question - do you have somewhere to pitch the underground drain to?I'll relate a story to illustrate my point. I ran a project where we were putting in a new sewage line at a canning plant where I worked. we were going through undisturbed soil and starting hitting perfectly clean clay subsoil. I noticed the clay running downhill in the direction we were digging, but didn't seem significant at the time. We dug a little further and then were out of the lot, fenced the hole and went to the other end of the dig, about an 1/8 mile away, for logistics reasons.We got down about 4 feet and still hadn't hit the clean clay yet. The soil got wetter and wetter and at about six feet the shovel took a load out of the hole that cut into the clay by about 8 inches.Before the shovel was could return to the hole, it was full of water to just above the clay line. This went on for several more swipes, until the hole was refilling 3 or 4 feet in about 45 seconds. It started subsiding a depression around the dig.What had happened is that we were apparently in the center of a giant slay bowl that had later been silted in with gravelly sand, etc.We had a hell of a time with the water and eventually had two huge Deere powered pumps to dewater the hole. This went on for days until it all of a suddent just stopped. We had drained the aquifer!It was a real pain, but the point is that when you are dealing with very impervious sub soils (like yours) you need to treat the soil (and whatever you put under the patio) like it were surface drainage. You need to pitch it away from the house and to somewhere! Otherwise the sand bed under the pavers will just fill up with water until it has backed up high enough to spill into the (relatively) porous fill around thge basement hole.-Rob

3. 
   Guest_ | Oct 04, 2000 02:44pm | #7

   *Hi, Rob -Thanks so much for the anecdote, which sure is a lot better then technical explanations.This answers the question I was asking myself whether to leave the clay alone and try to slope it away from the house.The other boneheaded option was to start excavating the stuff to haul it away and replace with more porous stuff with the necessary drainage channels. Definitely a major chore.Thanks again.Alan

4. 
   Guest_ | Oct 04, 2000 10:23pm | #8

   *Rob, We're looking at a similar situation on one side of our house, but the question of where to pitch it to is a problem. Our neighbor's house is about 1 foot away from his property line and has a large roof (eyeballing it, I'd say our side is about 1500sq) that drains right into our yard, towards our house about 8 feet away. He won't put a gutter on it, to get him to do so would require the law, and I don't want my neighbor pissed at me. Our soil is all clay, so we were also considering creating a gravel pit and sloping the clay away from our house into it, as well as having a gravel trench leading to it along the property line. We'd top everything off with top soil. Our only lucky part about this is that we live in Utah where it doesn't rain a whole lot, but we do get gully-washers which can cause flash flooding. Space on that side of the property is so limited that there is no way to pitch 10' away from the house. Does our plan sound at all feasible to you?

5. 
   Guest_ | Oct 05, 2000 06:36am | #10

   *The key thing to remeber is that water wants to run before it soaks in.I assume that you are saying your lot is basically damn near flat. In your case, grading and draining to a leach pit for the occasional downpour can probably work, provided there is enought time between storms for it to dry out.The other thought would be to buy a leaching chamber. Around here, septic tank people make/stock them. This buys you tons more storage capacity for the same size hole. Plus, being a formal structure, allows for installation of a submersible pump to then use it to water plantings, etc. Could even make a rain cistern, but then you HAVE to use it all before the next storm.The curtain drain is a good idea, but you have to make sure the bottom pitches to the chamber, if it is not smooth and pitched, it will pond water. I would not go crazy with topsoil on top. I would suggest a sprinkle of soil, basically so grass would have a head start. Grass would eventually infiltrate the top of the stone anywyas. The problem is that the root mat makes it harder for the water to soak in.I lucked out with my house. House is 150' away from a 75 foot deep ravine with a very volatile creek in it. There is a large ditch along my property and adjacent farm field that goes to it, grade pitches to ditch, basement drains to ditch, ditch goes to ravine, all gravity, no wires, no thinking.Of course dummies down the road build in the the flats next to the creek and get my water and flood, but that's their own fault. They should've asked my opinion!-Rob

2. 
   MARTY_JAMES | Oct 05, 2000 06:36am | #9

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   GOT MOISTURE IN A BASEMENT UNDERNEATH A PORCH FOUNDATION. I PAINTED ALL THE CEMENT WALLS WITH A CEMENT WATER-PROOF PAINT. THEN COVERED THE WALLS WITH 1 1/2" OF DOW BOARD. WILL VENTING WITH FANS TAKE CARE OF ANY FUTURE MOSITURE PROBLEMS OR SHOULD I NOT VENT. WITH WHAT I HAVE DONE WILL THAT TAKE CARE OF THE ORIGINAL MOISTURE/MILDEW PROBLEM?