We just finished a basement and the carpet is installed. Everything is perfect, and then I get the call from the home owner. WATER ALL OVER THE BASEMENT FLOOR!!
We added a bathroom in the basement as well as a laundry room and 1/2 bath in an addition. Of course we are below the septic line leading out of the house so we had to have the plumbers install a pump to get the waste up and out. The owner had flushhed some paper towels down the toilet and they got wrapped around the float and the pit flooded. Thank goodness it was fairly clean water and the mess was not as bad as I had invisioned when I got the call. I explained to her that she could not flush things like that down the toilet and she understood. Howver, her husbad is concerned that the pump failed to easily and that the kids will not be as careful as they should be. He also says that the pump is noisy and it cycles at night when nobody is using any water.
Is there a better system that would be more reliable, quieter and not cycle when nobody is using water? I asked the plumber and he said ” I don’t know”.
Replies
Why would the pump cycle with no water, is their a check valve?
There is a check valve. The check valve is the noisiest part of the pump. It has a rubber coupler on each end that clamps to the pvc. The only reason I can think of for the pump to cycle at night would be if there ws ground water getting into the pit.
>>"The only reason I can think of for the pump to cycle at night would be if there ws ground water getting into the pit.
A pit for black water must be sealed water/air tight and vented. If this is where water is coming from, something has gone very wrong.
More likely the flapper on the toilet leaks a bit? To investigate this issue, if it's not obvious from a little visual investigation, of course just turn off the water supply and see what happens at night.
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
A sewage pump is a closed unit, so how could ground water get into pump chamber. Either you don't have a sewage pump or your getting bypass from check valve, or sewage waste line to chamber is not sealed.
Does the lid for the pump chamber have bolts on the top?
The lid does have bolts on top of it. But I just thought that since the pipes run under the basement floor that water may be seeping in around the pipes. But now I am thinking everyone is right about the toilet.
Your night running is from the check valve leaking back into the tank. It sounds like your plumber tapped the new line into the existing house main sewer line, not an unreasonable thing to do. As the upstairs fixtures are used, some of the liquid will flood into the lower line and be stopped by the check valve. Check valves do not form perfect seals, so as water leaks past them, the ejection pump tank fill.
If you have the room, changing the entry point of the lower line will help. By rolling the sanitary wye or tee fitting to the top of the main and forming a goose neck down to the pump discharge line you can greatly reduce the amount liquid falling back into the line.
Look into isolation hangers with rubber spacers to support any piping attached to your framing. This will help reduce the sound transmission through the pipe and into the framing.
Dave
Edited 5/14/2006 9:59 am ET by DaveRicheson
"If you have the room, changing the entry point of the lower line will help. By rolling the sanitary wye or tee fitting to the top of the main and forming a goose neck down to the pump discharge line you can greatly reduce the amount liquid falling back into the line."I was under the impression that code required that.Not sure where I got that from though.But the one basin pump (washing machine) that I did that is the way that I connected it.
You are likely correct, but I have seen them installed otherwise. he ones I have seen where ththis could happen is when the main line is near or in the floor joist, limiting how high the wye or tee can be rolled to the top,
To the OP, another possible back flow source could be in the vent. Depending on the original house plumbing, your plumber may have tied the crock vent to an existing wet vent. Or he may have used an existing waste line from a sink as a wet vent for his install. Barring a leaking flapper valve in the new toilet, I would look for a back flow source up stream of both the check valve and vent from the pump crock.
Dave
I will look into all of the suggestions that have been made to stop the pump from cycling at night. Does anyone have any suggestions for a system that would be less sensitive to paper towels etc... being flushed down the toilet?
Check the specs on the pump and look for one that is more "tolerant". IIRC some can handle anything up to 2", but the problem is that a towel might lay across in the inlet and block any flow.Also if it does not have one then install a high level alarm.
Is this the plumber that installed the system that says "I DON'T KNOW', if so I think you need a real plumber!!
Hi Keek,
Seems like everyone is bypassing another possibility and simple solution about the lift pump starting at night. Is the flapper in the toilet tank leaking, perhaps the chain is not allowing the flapper to fully seat? After a flush, drop some food coloring into the toilet tank and observe if it colors the bowl. Checking the simple possibilities before digging into the other more complicated possibilities might make a better day. :-)
Virginbuild
Never thought about that. Thanks for the tip.