I really enjoy diy work at home but I have taken on something new. Changing a bathroom a bit. Can I rotate a toilet 90 degrees on the same drain as long as there is proper clearance from walls? Is it better to use sweated toilet valves rather than compression fitted ones? A local big box store assistant advised that sweated ones take an experienced person to determine the amount of heat needed. Are quarter turn valves the preferred choice?
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I'm not a plumber, but my bias is towards 1/4 turn shut-offs, soldered on. Way better, and you don't have to worry about melting any rubber.
Compression? I dunno. They do work on rigid pipe, but my understanding is that they're only intended for soft copper (i.e., flex), so that the ferrule bites into the pipe.
If you really want a solderless connection, there's another system I'm not really familiar with. The shut-off kind of snaps on. I can't say how reliable it is, but you can buy them from HD around here.
but my understanding is that they're only intended for soft copper
Just FWI compression valves work on ridged copper just as well as soft.
Doug
Huh. I wonder where I got that idea.I've installed compression valves on rigid pipe, in a professional capacity, but I thought I was "getting away" with something.Well, good to know.
Thanks for the note. The "helper" at the store suggested that there is a soft grommet/washer inside the valve and that is what made me change my mind and opt for the compression. I may practice with a sweat type first to see if can do it.
I like soldered male fittings and female threaded 1/4 turn valves.
If you have the room, you can turn the toilet. Be warned that the flooring under the toilet may not be suited for the turn (unfinished in strategic locations). If the toilet tank is farther away from the wall, you'll at least be able to repaint it in the future without removing the tank.
BTW When painting a bath, I ALWAYS remove the toilet tank and paint the wall behind it.... a pet peeve of mine.
Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
That's good thinking, with a separate sweat fitting. I have a vision of a 1/4 turn valve glowing cherry-red. ;-)
Edited 1/16/2008 8:01 pm ET by Biff_Loman
I looked at that combination first thinking it to be the best and maybe the easiest but somehow, I thought it might be tough getting that valve turned tight in upright position. First timers are always skeptic.
Easy to tighten the valve on the soldered male fitting (teflon on the threads) with two wrenches....
tougher to solder the valve without overheating the teflon seal on the inside.
In my opinion.
Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
Edited 1/17/2008 2:12 pm by Hackinatit
I forgot to add that there are code issues with clearance around a toilet. Again, I'm not a plumber - consider my posts to be of entertainment value. ;-)
But I think you are required to have 15" from center on either side. That would put the spun toilet too close to the adjacent wall.
Not long ago, I had the opportunity to use a toilet that was parallel to the wall. Odd feeling.
toilet @ 45 degrees vs 90 degrees....
hmmmm, I have an ideaLiberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
I have plenty of room, about 17" from center to wall. My wife wanted a short wall built to provide a bit of privacy when two people are in the bathroom and that meant turning the toilet. Now adding duroc and 1/4" tile floor, I am concerned about stacking the toilet flange. I guess adding another flange with wax or silicone sandwiched between old and new will work????
I like the compression valves because you can take them off and the flange when you paint or do drywall fixes. Turn off the water. Take off the valve and flange and fix the wall right around the valve. Let dry as best you can and re-install flange and valve. Looks like it was brand stink'n new.
How do you get the flange over the nut on the pipe coming out of the wall? I am thinking about the chrome collar against the wall. Are we on the same page?
We're on the same page. If you look closely at the compression ring (between the valve and the compression nut) it has a bevel on each side with flat spot in the middle. The two beveled sections are where it seals so you don't want to nick them. I take a pair of pliers and carefully pull and twist the ring off by grabing the flat section. If you are carefull and don't damage the beveled areas of the ring you can re-use it. If you pull and twist it comes off. All the copper I've worked with is hard copper. If it was soft it might not come off. I'm not sure really. Never done it. I have had compression fittings leak in the past because I didn't tighten them enough. For that reason I lube everything before assembly and carefully tighten it more than you would think it needs.
I'm kind of a nut about instalations. I like them to be just right. Even behind/under the toilet.
Great idea. I have a couple of old valves that were cut off of other jobs. I will try to remove the compression sleeve to see how easy it is without having the experience as you. These ideas are making me feel better and better about tackling this. Do you use silicone paste to lubricate before tightening? I have a product that I use to lubricate rubber "O" rings. Do you think that would work?
I keep a tube of fawcet lube in my blumbing box. It is non-toxic so you can use it on supply falves and fittings without worrying about toxic affects downstream.
Thanks for the note. I'll pick some up and give it a try.
Soldering a shut-off is not that hard, does take some practice. Clean and flux the joint. Moderate torch flame and test with the solder opposite the flame. The trick is knowing how much solder to use without it dripping. About 1/2". Quick wipe of any drip of solder before it solidifies. Remember to put on the escucheon before soldering (btdt - grrrrr!).
Looks nice to add a stip of aluminum tape on the exposed copper between the shut-off and escucheon. Gives it a stainless look.
Will a flange kit line up the 90* turn of the bolts? You may need to cut out the flange and install a new flange with the correct bolt orientation. Easy to do if you are pulling up the flooring or have access from below.
Uh, I meant this for the OP.One trick I learned, for the amateur, is to use a little hand mirror to assess your solder joint all the way around. That way, you can check for gaps and potential problem areas, and don't have to go nuts with the solder just to be sure.Although, I've also filed off a solder drip, and found it aesthetically satisfactory. It takes less time than you'd think - a lot less time than trying to dry out the line after finding a pinhole leak, and more relaxing. Make sure your joint is damn good and clean. The brand-new fitting is not such a big deal, but be anal about cleaning the old copper. And I've had problems with too little flux, trying to be neat, but too much flux has never seemed to matter.
Edited 1/18/2008 3:06 pm ET by Biff_Loman
Well, I may not be the OP, but you got the amateur part right! ;)
The last shutoff I did reno'ing one of our baths I should have used a longer piece of pipe during the rough in. After drilling the cap to drain the pipe and sweating it off, I still only had 1.5" to work with coming out of the drywall. Stoooopid, Stoooopid, Stoooopid.
As the supply came from above, the #$($ water kept dripping down. Getting the cap off had taken forever. Stuffed the pipe with white bread, sweated the fitting, stood back to admire my briliance.
No escucheon.
Faaaaaaaaaaak.
Never heard of a remodeler's escutcheon?
Sure have. Has that "Hey, what a moron - forgot to put the real one on before soldering" look to it.
It was for a pedestal sink, across from the throne. I already have the mirror in the room, so do I need a second reminder of my intellect?
Believe me...you're the only one in the world that would notice the difference.The average HO is used to finger-painted caulk around the plumbing stub-outs. ANY escutcheon is high society.
Residential code clearence from closest wall is 15", but i have seen them a lot closer.
I prefer 18" ( standard ADA) I don't like to feel cramped------ no pun intended.
I like the 1/4 turn valves.
We do not use soldered stops. About 98% compression & 2% threaded.
Our commercial jobs are type "L" copper that the compression stop is on I have never had a problem.