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During the past few weeks I have taken part in discussions about “Big House Insanity, Yard Light Stupidity, and The Not So Big House”. Today on the way to work, while listening to the news on my local NPR station it really struck me how lucky we are here in North America. We’ve had no wars on our continent in a long time, we have great amounts of resources and materails and we have a great degree of tolerance for diversity (though perhaps it’s because we’re very homogeneous-like milk).
We should all be VERY thankful for what we have; think of the hundreds of thousands of men, women and children that live in squalor, with no food, no running water, no electricity, no roof over thier heads. Imagine being in Macedonia now…. no grocery store, no lumber yard, no interstate highways, no SUV’s to get from here to there. But, more essentially, little of what is truly needed to stay alive- to survive.
Remember how much of the world lives in cardboard boxes, or simple shanty-shacks made of materials gleened from the local dump. As we discuss our housing “dilemmas”, let’s not stop being VERY thankful for where we are, what we have, and more importantly, what we will leave our progeny.
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I certainly agree. I spend a fair amount of time overseas, you tend to not appreciate what you have until you see what others deal with on a daily basis.
*Nicely said, Chad.It would be nice to think that we could have more than tolerance for diversity, the ideal would be appreciation and respect. That would be a true "cultural mosaic" rather than the "melting pot" syndrome that occurs here more often than not.Happy Easter, Beatrix
*Chad, I agree. Most of our problems here in NorthAmerica are what I would call "rich people'sproblems".
*It's odd, do you ever say "I'm starving" when you're hungry and can't eat for like an hour? Imagine what it is like to really be starving, like no food for days? It is a strange world.I am thankful. I complain a lot, but I am thankful.
*I'm waiting for some of these other guys here to chime in: they don't really need to be thankful- they deserve it because they worked like dogs for it. No luck is involved in any form, they've made their own luck, etc., etc., etc.
*Happy Easter to all,Thank God I'm not ducking bullets on Easter and to those that are, email me and I'll be their to lend a hand in a heartbeat.Near the stream,J
*Hey Lonecat,Were you waiting for me to chime in? Actually I am in total agreement with you all here. THere are many countries all over the world where the conditions of life are lacking, to say the least.I am very grateful for the opportunities I have been afforded here in this grand country of ours. It has not been easy and most of my luck has been bad luck but I've come along alright. I've been nearly homeless on a few occasions. I've nearly died once too.It is not those who have no chance to succeed or even get by that I hold no sympathy for. The poor souls of tyrant nations and such. It's those here in the USA who have every opportunity and take no advantage of it that I have no sympathy for. The ones looking for a hand-out and not the hand-up.As for the matters in Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Albania etc... I think we have no business risking the lives of our sons and daughters to end a 600 yr old civil conflict that will never end no matter what. There will always be one side or the other seeking revenge for deeds of time past. Neither the Serbs or Albanians are a decent peaceful people. I don't see our point in intervention at this time primarily for reasons of safety for our troops. If it is as important for whatever reason, we should institute embargos, arm our favorite side and let the fighting commence.The Great-grandson of Yugoslavian Immigrants,Pete Draganic
*Brother Pete, I guess I was just hoping everyone would chime in. I'm just still a little sore about some of those smug turkeys the other day implying we can all feel good about building great big ass houses and waiting eagerly for the new Ford maxiSPUV to get here and planning the new swimming pool etc.. I've been remodeling a rich man's house for 3 months and he spends so much money it makes my head swim. But this rich cat has never pissed me off because 1. He pays real well and 2. He is a nice guy with some humility who knows how good he has it and feels very fortunate. Even "lucky", if you can believe that. And, yes, he worked for his money. I've traveled throughout Asia- back in the hippie days (after Vietnam) and a little bit more recently. Places where if you have a camera in your hand, you are a millionare to those people. I really have seen a whole family on their knees in a Calcutta train station searching for spilled grains of rice. How can this not make one (me) speculate on what a stroke it was to be born to a white upper middle class family in the heart of the US? I'm doing fine myself after some ups and downs- combat, drugs, jails, nuthouses, etc. Straight arrow now for over 20 years and I make a good living. I work hard, but I feel LUCKY. Anyway, no more of these head trip threads for me. I've got more work lined up than I can believe so I am going to stay over in the Tools and Construction techniques and business from now on now that I have ventilated a little.
*Great name, "Draganic" Do you know if it stands for something? America's diversity is a great thing.The 600-yr-old conflict that will never end and the "all sides are bad" were just excuses thrown up in the early Bosnia days to excuse our ignoring the conflict, rape, and genocide. The "bad luck" of the refugees is real, the atrocities are real, the crisis inevitable, and Milosevic's greed and racist nationalism are in the present tense. The continuation and spread of this altogether modern aggression must be stopped -- or it will only reappear elsewhere again and again. We have time and again ignored this sort of thing with disastrous results. Our soldiers have my unqualified support.OK, OK, we're a going a bit off-topic (construction, was it?) here. I'm just tiring of the nonsense spread by the media. The people on this board certainly are thoughtful and serious in all they do!
*Yes, most everyday I stand amazed by the good fortune of being born in the USofA. Thank God.Andrew, what would America be if, suppose, a superpower had existed at the time of our civil war? Further, if that other country had come in to "clean up" the atrocities of brother fighting brother?I'll tell you what we are doing in Bosinia--a non-NATO country: we are there to stabilize the country so as to allow an oil pipeline from the rich oilfields of the Caspian Sea to the shipping ports of the Adriatic Sea. Other proposed routes are even less stable and subject to shifting political winds. To say we are in Yugoslavia for humanitarian purposes sounds good and allays the media hype, but it is not the motive for being there. Pete hints at a deeper involvement when he mentions a "600 yr. old civil conflict". The Serbian Protestant want to rid the country of the Albanian Muslim, who were victorious in a battle in the middle ages. It is not for me, nor, I believe, our country to solve the world's problem as we see fit. Besides, we can try to rid the world of all the dictators and tyrants and still they will flourish.It is the way of the world. The "One World" concept is at best a myth.Thank you for respecting my opinion and not hitting me. I'm joining Lonecat and going back to Const. Weighing in is burdensome.
*Yes, most everyday I stand amazed by the good fortune of being born in the USofA. Thank God.Andrew, what would America be if, suppose, a superpower had existed at the time of our civil war? Further, if that other country had come in to "clean up" the atrocities of brother fighting brother?I'll tell you what we are doing in Bosinia--a non-NATO country: we are there to stabilize the country so as to allow an oil pipeline from the rich oilfields of the Black Sea to the shipping ports of the Adriatic Sea. Other proposed routes are even less stable and subject to shifting political winds. To say we are in Yugoslavia for humanitarian purposes sounds good and allays the media hype, but it is not the motive for being there. Pete hints at a deeper involvement when he mentions a "600 yr. old civil conflict". The Serbian Protestant want to rid the country of the Albanian Muslim, who were victorious in a battle in the middle ages. It is not for me, nor, I believe, our country to solve the world's problem as we see fit. Besides, we can try to rid the world of all the dictators and tyrants and still they will flourish.It is the way of the world. The "One World" concept is at best a myth.Thank you for respecting my opinion and not hitting me. I'm joining Lonecat and going back to Const. Weighing in is burdensome.
*Andrew, I agree, we have a lot of thoughtful people posting here! I might not always agree with everything that's said, but, I gotta admit, they do help me keep to an open mind, and to reallyi thinkabout things - even when I don't want to! : )Patty
*I certainly agree about how much we have to be thankful for. Here we are debating about front-loading versus top-loading washing machines and the nuances of how to best do crown molding trim. My wife was doctoring in Zimbabwe last year where 27% of adults are HIV+ and TB and malaria are rampant. A whole family is happy in a 8-foot mud and stick hut and the goverment putting in a water well within a mile or two is a BIG deal.I'm torn about the whole Serb-Albania thing. Are there milartaristic, nationalist murders on both side? Obviously. But there are lots of people just trying to get by, raise their crops, and not get shot, raped, or burned out of their home by marauding bands from one side or the other. If Hilter had stayed within Germany's borders while instituting the Holocaust, and we knew and believed, should we have acted to save the millions of lives? Should we have acted to save 800,000 in Rwanda? Or 200,000(?) lives in Kosovo? To quote Jean-Luc Piccard: "How many people does it take before it is wrong?" And yet our hopes for no NATO casualities through an air war misses the point of saving lives on othe ground. And seems to have accelerated the Serb offensives.I'm most annoyed at our own nationalism. Why is an American's life worth so much more than anyone else's? We get more excited about 3 Americans being captured than we do about 100's of deaths and 10,000's of displacements every day. All the Americans and most of the European career soldiers are volunteers. That isn't the case on the other side. Every second- and third-world country we've invaded recently had conscripted troops. And while killing those troops may be a necessary evil, I find the death of a conscripted soldier, (who rather be home with his family and farm) more tragic than the death of a NATO volunteer soldier who could have choose to flip burgers or swing a hammer.Ranting over for now, David
*I wonder if perhaps we aren't being a bit ethno-centric here. And this is profoundly an American problem typified by our actions in Yugoslavia right now.Aside from poverty, disease and war what is the matter with simple under-development? Did it ever occur to many of you guys that these people may not want our way of life? What kind of culture creates a lifestyle typified by multiple cars, TVs, telephones, appliances, etc. etc. Has it ever occured to you guys that maybe we have it all wrong?Do you realize a (debt free) household income to maintain a "socially normal" lifestyle is more than halfway to six figures! I have tired of modern life at times and longed for a simpler life in a different place. Relatives out west persistently encourage us to get away from it all and take up a subsistence-farming, agrarian lifestyle with them. All day spent with family and fun and of course work.Sometimes I think the Kasczynski's had it right; little cabin in the midle of nowhere, no power, no bills. Admittedly I wouldn't spen my spare time building bombs though.Next time you are taking pity on some poor person consider whether they are truly suffering, or simply lacking what you have.-Rob
*Rob-The problems of the third world run to basic nutrition, sanitation, health care, and shelter. Mere childbirth is life-threatening. And what AIDS will do to Africa... When we start exporting humanitarian aid of ice cream and cable TV, I too will be quite concerned. But you are right about ethnocentricity -- a good reason to make sure we've got the picture right before acting.Rich-On superpowers intervening, that was an issue during both the Revolution and Civil War. France helped us out during the Revolution, largely to further their competition with the British (guess the King didn't foresee democracy infecting his own country!). In the civil war, the North was terribly worried that Britain and France would recognize the Confederacy, which they were close to doing because the North was doing such a terrible job and they really wanted that cheap cotton. Interference is nothing new.On atrocities, if you don't want 'em don't go to war. The Milosevic Serbs have, and they are not fighting to vindicate an 800-y.o. grudge so much as to grab land and power in the here and now. We too have mixed motives, but the motives of the American people (who really do have the final say) lean towards the humanitarian -- our "real" intent can't come from anywhere else. If a rich minority or the politicians wants that pipeline, and happens to free several hundred thousand Kosovars from genocide along the way, that's OK.As far as America as the world's policeman, there are a lot of concerns that you and I share. But rather than worry too much about where this could hypothetically go, we should worry about what to do right now. What we will do tomorrow we can and will decide tomorrow. Isolationism is really the extreme position, and we can't as a practical matter take it. The fighting could very well destabilize Albania, Macedonia, and even Greece -- what's going on is a big security problem for NATO/Europe, and it more clearly implicated our interests than the Iraq thing ever did (where the "humanitarian" reasons for going to war were just silly).And I bet Saddam Hussein is watching his CNN with great interest these days!One question I haven't been able to answer -- maybe someone here knows? -- if Kosovo is so sacred to the Serbian people -- I've heard it compared to Jerusalem -- how come none of them lives there? The population until, uh, recently, was 90% ethnic Albanian.
*Can anyone justify why we are there? In temrs of body count their civil war was a drop in the bucket compared to other situations going on right now. Where was the U.S. and it's ideals when Stalin was killing and starving his own people? This guy makes Hitler look like a petty thief.-Rob
*What you are missing, Rob, is that they DO want our way of life. Those poor people in the third, third world do not sit around meditating on the benefits of their simple, virtuous life-style. If you sat down and said, "folks you just don't know how good you have it", they would consider you (or me) to be a moron. They want what we have, they want STUFF. Cars, washers and dryers, cars, tvs and vcrs, computers and cars. Everybody in China wants a new SPUV and a jetski, and you know I'm right. And you know how they are going to get all this stuff as soon as they can? Coal. They are going to burn all the coal on t5hat side of the world, and we can't stop them.
*OK, so we're not so consistent. But if we dropped the ball in the past no reason we have to drop it today. I'm surprised that we're doing it all .. I'm looking for the "real" reason too. Russia is in the background, maybe it's a cold war reflex thing. I hope it ends quickly (it won't) and with minimal bloodshed (it won't). Sheesh. Oh yeah, and that thKosovars all forgive the Serbs and don't spend the next twenty years trying to return the favor.I like living in the US!
*I am so glad you asked why only 10% of kosovo is Serbian. That is because 20 yrs ago the albanians did the same thing to the serbs as the serbs are doing to the albanians now. Go figure. Thats why I would much rather see us stay out of the fight. We have no national interest in Yugoslavia and we sure the hell wouldn't want other countries minding our business with bombs. We did it to the Indians & the Mexicans here and it has happened constantly throughout the entire history of mankind. For control of land or wealth etc... which, Personally, I have absolutely no problem with whatsoever. All is fair in love and war.Just imagine, if the early American settlers had went back to Europe because the USA already had inhabitants. What would be of the world today? There would be strife worldwide. Hitler had conquered most of europe and it was us that ended his reign. It is us that pressures other countries into humanitarian practices abd democracy. Without America and slavery, there would most likely be no free blacks in the world as of yet. It is the descendants of slaves who became free here and influenced freedom fo blacks in Africa under british rule.So maybe we massacred the indians years ago. That was the way of the world then. Conquer and rule. The world is a better and safer place because of it. Profound, isn't it?Pete Draganic
*Boy this fuzzy, feel good topic is going down the tubes quick. It is my understanding that 90% of the American Indians died from small pox, not slaughter by evil europeans. Also, with our current admistrations propensity to play a little fast and loose with facts and words, I'm really not sure who's the bad guy(s). I feel we are told stories to fit in with their adgenda. The Sudan missle attack this past summer comes to mind.
*JD, I agree 100%. It is funny that if it were G. Bush or R. Regan launching these military campaigns I would most likely stand behind them completely but with slick willy at the Helm, one can't help but wonder what are the real intentions of his actions.Did you know that Bill Clinton has dispatched the US military into more separate actions than any other president since WWII ended? Kinda funny for a guy who dodged the draft and cut military spending to bare bones. Bill Clinton has refused to fund the purchase of anymore cruise missiles but he has no trouble launching them at every opportunity. Bill Clinton once said in an interview that he wishes he could have been the president during WWII because of the challenges. Is he trying to lead us int a World War by diminishing our defense funding and weaponry and leaving us open for attack? Really gotta wonder about this guy.And if the Indians were so damn smart and noble, they would have discovered europe before the Europeans made it here. Smallpox, 50 caliber muzzle loaders, who cares what killed the indians. Thats done and over with and thank God things wound up like they did.Pete Draganic
*... small pox brought by the unwitting Europeans ...The Sudan thing is still in search of an explanation. "Whoops" is probably the true one.
*Another though comes to mind while speaking of Sudan. flight 800. Some body ( a couple i think) was arrested for stealing small pieces of that wreckage from the Faa inspection facility. The thief wanted to have the pieces tested because he/she believed the plane was downed by a missile attack.Numerous witnesses from land all claim to have seen a streak of light shoot towards the plane right before the explosion. These are witness from scattered locations that did not interact with each other before making statements.I seem to remember mention of there being a person very close to the Clinton White house with info about the president who was looking to release it on this plane. There is also a list of probably over 30 people who have died that were close to the president and many of which held damaging info on the president and were known to have threatened releasing it. Mny of them died from gunshot wounds to the head that were all ruled suicides.Chew on that for a while.I could email any of you the list if you'd like.Pete Draganic
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Hey J D;
I cant believe that you could question the motives of the present regime, they feel our pain, they are going to take care of us, from the rocking of the cradle,provided you escape the abortionist, to the rolling of the hearse. With the roughly 1 1/2 million
preborn babies that are butchered in this country each year, we as a people dont have the moral compass to even make a judgment as to wether or not the killings or events in other parts of the world are wrong or right. The actions being taken by the rouge regime in Washington are nothing more than just additional steps toward the "One World Order", just remember the biggest lie in the world is " we are from the goverment and we are here to help"
Deja Vu Vietnam
brisketbean
*Pete; You are being far too modest on your list,It is closer to 60 people with close ties to our fearfull leader that wound up commiting arkancide (assisted suicide) for one reason or another, any wonder why Susan Mcdougal cant remember anything?brisketbean
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Dont get me started on "Stuff".
JonC
*Two shooters on the grassy knoll.
*ChadI can tell you were never in the military, especially the army. If you had been, you wouldn't have required a war and a couple of thousand homeless and hungry to make you aware of the things we do have to be thankful for. Not attempting to be critical here, but if you had been in the army you would have had the opportunity to sleep while freezing cold, to live in squalor, no roof, and no certainly no grocery stores.
*Give your kids an extra hug as they (you) leave the house this morning. My sweetie and I turned off the light around ten tonight. Our kids are on Spring break, but Kathy woke me up at midnight..."Lindy's not home yet". Within about 10 seconds the phone wrang and Lindy (16) said there had been an accident - that she and her friend were ok but they couldn't get the car out of the ditch could we come get them and Susans neck hurts and she isn't talking and we called her folks but can you just come quick. No one was seriously hurt. We pulled the car out of the ditch and met Susans mom 1/2 way and got her car back to our house even though it"s not really drivable. Lindy's upstairs nestled in safe and sound. But Kathy and I are wide awake. Probably will relive a few close calls if we do get to sleep.I'm gratefull for my home. And the three great kids in it. For all the good fortune that lets me have this day with my wife and kids, and hopefully one more tomorrow.Give your loved ones an extra hug the next time you part, you just never know if you'll get another chance.
*A Thousand years of peace. That's my future. There are challenges in all our lives...Deal with them, enjoy every minute of your precious life and of every other particle in this universe whether classified as living or not...or do not as you prefer.Work hard, play hard, relax, build homes, community, and airplanes if that's your thing. And yes, if it's your choice let the teenagers have a car in the evening hours, believe in alians and conspiracies, worry about past deeds by all, build a cabin and write a manifesto...Doing my thing, near the stream,J
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Gotta get me a stream...
Thanks J
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Black helicopters.
*The cabin & manifesto, fine; but send packages only to yourself please.Used to be near a stream, ad
*Preborn babies? Is that like a pre-pregnant mother?Ah, no, I don't want to go there either. But things are good in the States. I'm not crediting the President... I do think that Americans are by and large a moral and commonsensical people, in large part because of our education, freedom, and prosperity. With the crash of the Soviet Union many opportunies lie before us.
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Andrew;
To define my meaning of the term,"pre-born babies"I will first qualify my believe with the worlds all time best selling book that is regarded as the Word of God by Christians. God speaks to the prophet Jeremiah in chapter 1 verse 5 "before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."
From that scripture I draw the conclusion that he was a person with unique qualities that could be known or discerned from another prior to birth.
The personage of the fetus is endowed at conception and is spirit soul and although undeveloped body from that point on.
For those of you that dont except that premise because of "education", I offer this scenario. The baby is fully developed, 36 weeks or more when the partial birth atrocity is performed, the baby is
manipulated around to a breach position after mechanical dialation and pulled through the birth canal feet first untill all but the head has been introduced to this world when the baby is stabbed through the neck into the brain, the brains sucked out, the head crushed and delivery of the murdered baby is completed. If this isnt an atrocity, then they arent doing anything wrong in Kosovos.
repulsed by the truth
brisketbean
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Eh, I knew better than to be a smart-aleck. I disagree with you for a number of reasons, most importantly your desire to force other people of intelligence and convictions to see things your way. But let's agree to disagree; I certainly respect your beliefs. The Biblical passage is, you must admit, open to more than one interpretation, and interpret it you must, by Christians of great faith; it is far from an unequivocal condemnation of abortion, a practice well-known in ancient times. (This is the lawyer in me, always analyzing texts to find meaning. This is especially difficult when reading a translation of a text.)
*Yeah, we are definitely ethno-centric - I think it's hard not to be. And, yes, we are famous for trying to change cultures (hey, they liked the sanitation stuff, maybe they would like cable!).Remember Pol-Pot? Well, Americans wouldn'ti hearof helping out there - we had had enough! Yet what he did was too evil for words. It seems that it takes a generation to forget what it means to go to war. I was thinking (dangerous), and there's about 25 years from the end of one war to the next. So, it's about time for Americans to get self-righteous.No, I don't like the idea of standing by while heinous crimes are comitted, but there have been plenty of atrocities before this, and there will be plenty after this, that Americans will basically ignore.I profess to know nothing about this, really; it's just that I wonder what makes our country tick.Patty
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Unfortunatly much of what makes the country tick these days, are polls of uniformed or misinformed people.
I would much rather have a president who did things because he thought they were right instead of popular
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"Unwitting"? Many New England states have a town called Amherst (I've lived in Amherst, MA) that honor the white guy who (among other accomplishments) gave small-pox infected blankets to the Indians.
*Well, gasoline went up about 45 cents here in california, and about 14 cents in the rest of the country. And my wife is getting an old version of a SUV gas hog this week. Sometimes I'd be happier with a little less STUFF.I'm working on a theory about our involvement in Kosovo. The theory is, it's all about racism. 1. Racism in the worst sence that leads Serbs to commit genocide and other "crimes against humanity" against the ethnic Albanians to destroy their race or at least drive them out of "Serbian" territory.2. Racism in a slightly better sence, although not politically correct, and not expressed much. That leads America to try to help very ethnically similar, very caucasian-looking people, very middle class american-looking people from being murdered, and treated like s**t. People in jogging shoes, with sweatshirts, televisions, normal looking houses, cars, and tractors being forced out of their houses in the night by armed men in black and the homeowners butchered.I'm glad to be in America, but I'd also better be prepaired to fight to protect what we have.
*Not saying nothing was done deliberately -- but smallpox is so contagious it probably needed little help in a nonresistant population. By the time the Pilgrims arrived the Indian population had already been decimated by encounters with fur trappers, fishermen, etc. That's why they found all that great ... unpopulated ... farmland. New England (as you know) is densely forested, so farmland doesn't just happen. Quaint Squanto already spoke English after all (and had already been taken as a captive to England, twice, and escaped ... he returned to an disease-emptied village, so being friendly to the Pilgrims probably seemed a good idea). Check out this well-researched and non-shrill account of errors in high school history textbooks: Lies My Teacher Told Me. A good read.(In my "Be careful with metaphors" file: one Amazon customer said of a similar book "This book makes you initially hate the author for violating some sacred cows of history." Hmm.)The history of deliberate nastiness is remarkable, and largely unknown today. As is the Japanese-American WWII internment, etc. And i note that scads of things in the South -- including the "South" across the river from the capital -- are named for Civil War "heros" who I think would normally be called seditious traitors? Treason doesn't get much more extreme. Whatever, I'm just starting to learn about the South.
*At least the gas price thing is just because of foreign monopolists doing what would be illegal in the States. We strive to protect COMPETITION and resulting lower prices. Oops, i forgot about Microsoft. :)
*Actually, its because of in-state things. A couple refinery fires and maybe some oppertunistic (sp?) price gouging by the oil companies. Gasoline is now a lot more expensive in California than the rest of the country on average.I don't mind the Microsoft unfair competition thing, most of my IRA is in their stock! You GO, Bill!
*Pete, God, I'm glad you're an american.BB
*Yes, i just talked to a California (Silicon Valley) friend and the price there is about $1.85. Ours is about $1.05. In Italy or France, it's about $4-5.Congrats on your stock choice. If I didn't hate DOS so much, I too would have made a lot of money off of Intel and MS. When will the tech bubble burst?
*Is it Pete or God you're glad is an American? Or are you confusing the two? :)
*I'm still curious about that oil pipeline / Bosnia connection. As everyone knows, war is never about whatever they tell us it's about, it's always about money (they spend ours to protect someone else's)... so what's really going on over in Europe? Remember the babies that were thrown out of the incubators by the Iraqis in Kuwait? (never happened)... remember the opposition leader that was taken out and shot in Kosovo right at the start of all this? (never happened)... does anyone really know what the truth is, or do we just rally around the flag and bomb people into oblivion based on whatever Billy Clinton, that oh-so-trustworthy-soul, tells us to believe? Someone help me understand this... what about that oil pipeline again?
*Ross: that pipeline thang...uhm, I have read about that in different articles in trade mags, Newsweek, newspapers, etc. What I gather, it goes like this:Back before WW2, there were vast oil deposits discovered in and around Azerbajian(west coast of Caspian Sea) extending to Turkestan(east coast and part of former USSR). For a couple of reasons, little was done except some exploratory wells drilled. One, the technology wasn't up to snuff; two, USSR, Turkey, Iran, et al, were fighting over rights to the oil. Just a shoving match, really, for none had the economic force to make much of it. Fast forward to the 1980's, and enter--ta-dah!--the Americans. No, that's not quite right. Can't forget the Brits, Japan, and others. There is now a multinational consortium playing their hand at the Caspian. Even India has a part. Who was it?...can't recall just now...an American friggin' gazillionaire tychoon negotiated mineral rights with the Iranians and Turkish and Azerbajians Trouble was, he wasn't going to spend his cash, hence the formation of a consortium. You'd know the players if I could think of the individual's names. It really is odd bedfellows to have Royal Dutch Shell, BP, Chevron, Indonesian Gas, etc. involved together. BTW: the estimated oil reserves keeps going up, first, they thought there were over 22 billion BBL. Then they estimated 3 trillion. Now, they just say is is more than that, without saying numbers. Some are saying this makes the Saudi oilfields like very small.So, where were we? Oh yeah, on one hand, there is Georgia wanting the pipeline, thence to the Ukraine, Rumania, Bulgaria, passing through southern Yugoslavia, and, finally, Albania on the Adriatic. The west favors this planned route.On the other hand, the former USSR has joined with several other nations to have the pipe run to Istanbul. Eastern Asia favors this plan. If you remember your jr. high history, whoever controls Constaniople(Istanbul) will control the world. What to do, what do...All the pieces are in place. That is, except for one, very important piece. Where to run the pipe. Most of the wells drilled will be on offshore platforms in the Caspian Sea. Since most of the work is being financed by American led parties, the pipes from each well will be heading to the west coast of the Caspian.It is a race to get the pipeline finished. This is because, while it is agreed that Baku in Azerbijian makes the most sense for the pipeline terminal, the Azerbijians will go with the money. So, who comes up with the most money in the shortest time wins. It is very much a west vs east contest. This means the west side needs to get their pipeline squared away and up and running. The route proposed by the west is longer than that proposed by the east. And their is much more logistics to consider, as well as the terrain. As well as a couple of unstable countries. Don't you believe for a minute that we are over their to save some lives. I am truly sorry that this is not true. I mean, why in the heck are we fighting a war only half---ed? Want to win a war, send in the troops. Want to wear a country down, bomb the crap out of it. Bombing a country for humanitarian reasons? Give me a break.Right now, the hotspot for work is Baku in Azerbijian.
*I bopped over to the Newsweek site to read about the pipeline thing. It says there are unproven oil reserves under the Caspian, and an ambitious 1000-mile pipeline proposed starting from Kazakhstan, but only to Turkey, and not Istanbul but Ceyhan. The alternate route you suggest would be closer 2500 miles (!) and would pass through a half-dozen very unstable countries. It seems improbable but I'd like to hear more about it if you could provide a cite. It seems a stretch to say that this possible oil is -responsible- for us making war on the Serbs. And I'm satisfied with the humanitarian grounds, unless the numerous atrocities have been fabricated. But we've been watching the Milosevic style for years now. Again, if we -believe- in the (real) humanitarian grounds, how can our "real" motivation be something else?Nat'l Geographic Map of Europe
*Well, I'm only a product of my imagination. So, if the governor of Iowa launches an airstrike against New York City strongman Rudy Giuliani for using his security forces to terrorize the region's ethnic poor, can he really expect to solve the problems of a city with a long history of ethnic and relious strife? Thank you, Tom Tomorrow.
*Whatever his chances, i think it's a darn good idea. Rudy needs to be taken down a notch or two, though I'm sure he'll do himself in with time.
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During the past few weeks I have taken part in discussions about "Big House Insanity, Yard Light Stupidity, and The Not So Big House". Today on the way to work, while listening to the news on my local NPR station it really struck me how lucky we are here in North America. We've had no wars on our continent in a long time, we have great amounts of resources and materails and we have a great degree of tolerance for diversity (though perhaps it's because we're very homogeneous-like milk).
We should all be VERY thankful for what we have; think of the hundreds of thousands of men, women and children that live in squalor, with no food, no running water, no electricity, no roof over thier heads. Imagine being in Macedonia now.... no grocery store, no lumber yard, no interstate highways, no SUV's to get from here to there. But, more essentially, little of what is truly needed to stay alive- to survive.
Remember how much of the world lives in cardboard boxes, or simple shanty-shacks made of materials gleened from the local dump. As we discuss our housing "dilemmas", let's not stop being VERY thankful for where we are, what we have, and more importantly, what we will leave our progeny.