Greetings, folks –
So, DW and I picked up a little 1400 sf ranch to flip in 90 days. Got it for a good price due to its pathetic condition. Most of the work is cosmetic, though. Structurally very good. So anyway …
The kitchen/family room area has 2 layers of well-bonded sheet vinyl over oak parquet (no, the parquet is not recoverable). I want to tile this area, but getting the vinyl and adhesive off is going to be next to impossible. Has anyone ever bedded HardiBacker or Wonderboard in tile or vinyl mastic, and then screwed the pi$$ out of it? I’m thinking this would make a fairly good backer for tile … what are your thoughts??
Thanks in advance!
Bruce
Between the mountains and the desert …
Replies
No.
DG/Builder
That would be a totally unacceptable subfloor for tile. Vinyl needs to come up, I think the oak parquet would too, then put plywood down then tile backer set in unmodified thinset then screwed down.
But... before you do that you need to be sure your floor is built to support tile.
What size and what type are your floor joists , how far are they spaced, and what is the unsupported length of them? also is there plywood subfloor down already? if so how thick? You should have down at least 1 1/8 inches of ply before you put down your backer.
two problems ...
first ... most sheet vinyl is "cushion backed" ... and backerboards can't be applied over cushion backed vinyl. If it isn't backed ... yes, you can lay it over. It ever says NoGo over "cushion backed vinyl" on most of the backer board lables ...
second ... over anything ... don't use "mastic" ... use thinset.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
If I was, for some reason, to put the backer over the vinyl, what are the odds that Thinset would bond to the vinyl? That's why I posed the original question.Bruce
Between the mountains and the desert ...
"If I was, for some reason, to put the backer over the vinyl, what are the odds that Thinset would bond to the vinyl?"It does not have to stick to the vinul at all. That is not the purpose of the thinset.Screw hold the backerboard in place.The thinset is to bed the board. To give it 100% support. Backerboard is brittle and if spans a shallow section without support it will break under load.
Some sheet vinyl is not adhered to the field - only around the edges. Sut out a few football shaped pieces and confirm - through each layer.
If this was to be applied over raw plywood, I would use a flex type thinset to glue down the masonry board. However since it is over vinyl - NOT CUSHIONED BACK - I would use PL Premium. A couple of the 29oz tubes and you're done. Screws are a MUST too.
You may be best served if you cut a schedule of football pieces out of the existing flooring and apply the PL to hose spots. It is a little mork work but with a better result.
So - what did you pay for the house, what work will you be doing and how much do you intend to sell it for?
Do you have an arrangement with a broker for a discounted fee? I am thinking 2 sales of the same house for one broker within 3-4 months is a good deal - for the Broker.
Frankie
There he goes—one of God's own prototypes—a high powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live and too rare to die.
—Hunter S. Thompson
from Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas
Mastic - No.
Check out these links for some background and you'll be well on your way to proper subfloor prep and tile installation.
http://www.tile-assn.com/tileletter/pdfs/Substrate-Prep-0304.pdf
http://www.tileusa.com/faq_main.htm
Best of luck.
Oh, almost forgot to add, a heat gun will help in vinyl tile removal. It's slow going, but it helps. For large areas, there is also a type of long handled pneumatic scraper. Maybe you can rent one.
Seeking perfection in an imperfect world is a fool's errand. Making something look perfect is a whole 'nother story . . . .
Edited 3/5/2006 9:51 am ET by philarenewal
I guarantee that if you install hardibacker over the sheet vinyl using thinset or mastic, this installation will crack.
I have seen this done several times before with the same results. Cracking at the joints of the hardibacker through the ceramic tile.
Another issue is the parquet. If water gets through to the parquet it will buckle and break the ceramic.
Don't do this.
carpenter in transition
OK, OK, OK! Can't anybody take a joke??
Everyone pretty much answered as I suspected, and yes, I do understand the traditional drill for putting down tile. I guess I was just hoping someone had some miracle cure for a nasty job.
In the end, I've decided to put down laminate (Pergo type) plank flooring in this area. It'll go faster, with less prep, will be cheaper, and for a starter level home for resale, will provide a good surface.
Still gonna tile both bathrooms (floors are rotted there and have to come out to the joists anyway), the rear concrete steps to the patio, and the front entry, inside and out. SHould be a right fine deal for someone when we're done.
Bruce
Between the mountains and the desert ...
Rent an electric tile scraper and do the job right.Probably run you about $75 for the day and thats as long as it'd take to get all the vinyl up.
Just wear ear protection...those suckaz are loud.
If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
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