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you need to use soft copper to bend hard drawn copper will crimp and break . you can use soft roll copper and pull it straight and use a small hand bender to bend.
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you need to use soft copper to bend hard drawn copper will crimp and break . you can use soft roll copper and pull it straight and use a small hand bender to bend.
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That is a picture of a PIPE bender, not a tubing bender (or soft/hard copper tube bender).
These pipe benders are for industrial type applications (automotive shops to bend exhaust pipes, etc...) I have used them to bend galvanized pipe very succesfully too.
Use a good quality tubing bender, found at a local plumbing supply shop. Be prepared to spend some BIG bucks though.
James DuHamel
*Hi Jerry I've made 90 degree right angle bends with a conduit bender in 1/2" copper. BUT... For 3/4, bending the softer copper (TYPE M , has red lettering and red stripes) is much easier and will not "crinkle" on the inside radius, BUT only if you use a large turn radius. The harder copper in 3/4" (TYPE L with blue lettering & stripe) will crinkle or just give out and kink. It will also be weakened as the outside radius stretches. Therefore I never bend 3/4" TYPE L more than 30 degrees and only with a large gradual sweep. Any more than that, and I use elbows or rethink my layout. Mostly I bend to make an offset. The harder 3/4" will bend smooth, but you must make a much, much larger radius bend. Sometimes you don't have the room for a large swept turn. With 1/2" I've had very good success with TYPE L copper. Just don't expect to make extremely tight turns. I have not had any reason to use any 1/2" TYPE M copper.Just remember that TYPE L should NOT be used for high pressure like your domestic water. Type M is fine for hydronic heating systems with typical low pressure use.There is coiled copper tubing that is more maleable and can be formed. It can be used for "street pressure" of domestic water. It is more expensive too.PhilPS just last weekend I had to put a slight bend in some TYPE M I was installing in the crawlspace; a DWV line was in the way. I bent it in a few places over my knee, creating a large gradual radius.
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If you need to make a lot of bends, using PEX plastic water supply line might be an option.
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When we make condenser coils for our moonshine stills , we pack the cooper tubing full of dry sand , heat and bend around what ever radius we need, some of the old craftsman can make a cooper still that looks better than factory
*To All,Thanks for the input guys. Here's some more info. The 1/2" is Type L bent 90 deg. to a 3" radius, nice and smooth, no kinks or narrowing. The 3/4" is marked Type L HMP-W and bent 90 deg. to a 4" radius (same quality). Does the HMP-W designate bending temper?Steve,I'm sure the sand thing would work fine but would be time consuming. Thanks.Phil,I could get some decent large radius bends with my conduit bender, but nothing near as tight as these.James,I have seen the bending tools for small diameter soft tubing. Could you describe how the tool for hard copper works. What's the largest diameter you can bend with it?Thanks All,Jerry
*Jerry,Steve is right. Put sand inside your tubing and pack it tightly. Now use a tubing bender or whatever. the sand keeps the tubing from crinkling.My father was a machinist. He told me they used this technique when he was in the Phillipines in WWII for bending tubing.Hey Frank,No way no how do you bend true cast iron pipe. Yes it does break. Davo.
*Well Davo,Since you brought this thread back from the dead I'll share some info I stumbled across that might interest some. From the specs on this it looks like it may be the tool that was used (or something very similar). Follow the link for more info and prices.View Image"Holsclaw's "Handy" Tube BenderJerry
*Jerry,Very interesting. It's simply a tube bender. We use them all the time in my steel mill. Actually, our Line Gang (electricians) use them mostly for bending conduit. Our Instrument Repair (electronics) guys uses a smaller version for bending copper tubing. The bender is similar to your picture and can be had for around $30.As for the advertisement accompanying the above illustrated bender you showed, the ad refers to bending "iron" pipe. Black "iron" pipe is not cast iron. It is cast steel pipe; the kind you use when running gas lines.Davo.
*Seems like I had to run some 1/4 copper at a research facility about 10 years back. We used a small tubing bender built about the same as the Holsclaw. As I recall we found that annealing the pipe at the point of bending (quick pass of propane torch--let cool) made the tubing bend smoothly but you didn't just wipe that moving part across the tube in one pass..it took a little finesse. I don't know what effect that had on tube strength...we didn't use the tube to transport anything (went to a gauge). Made some nice looking piping. Later another shipment of the 1/4 didn't require the annealing.Jerry: Never heard that Type L couldn't be used for residential (domestic) water. I see it from time to time and more often in commercial structures. I thought it was heavier walled. What's the scoop? Thor
*I feel real silly asking but what is wrong with copper elbows? Pete
*Thor,I use Type L for domestic. PatchoguePhil was the one who mentioned that it couldn't be used for domestic. I was wondering about that myself. Maybe a typo?Jerry
*Pete,Elbows offer more resistance to flow than bends, but realistically there is nothing wrong with elbows. I just saw the nice, neat bends and started thinking... I get in more trouble that way.Jerry
*You can get long sweep copper elbows ( regular and street ) at an HVAC supplier. They are used on refrigeration lines. I just bought some yesterday.I was also wondering about the type L comment. I have used and sold it for residential work. Also there is type K which is even thicker walled.Frank
*'round here, Most folks use 'L' copper for residential work.
*Yes, they do make K copper. Yes, it is thicker walled than L or M copper. BUT, according to a friend of mine who is a plumber, all fittings (Elbows, Tees, etc.) are manufactured from L copper.Therefore, the plumbing is only as strong as its weakest link; in this case being the fittings.My friend also tells me that L copper is more than strong enough to handle any line pressure found in residential plumbing. He says the other grade is just a waste of money.Davo.
*Davo,I agree with all you said, but my local code requires K below ground with brazed regular fittings or compression fittings. You're right; it is expensive.Jerry
*There are three wall thicknesses for copper, K, L, and M.M, with the red markings, is really thin, and allowed onlyfor DWV. It's mainly for smitty pan and relief valve drains.L, with the blue markings, is the medium grade. It's a lot thicker than M, and is the general purpose water plumbing stuff.K, with the green markings, is a bit heavier than L.It's required for underground use in many places.-- J.S.
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I use thin type "M" for hydronic heat lines to copper hot water baseboard. The low level of oxygen and neutral pH in circulated hot water heating systems preserves the pipe. "M" wouldn't last long in a tap water line. Soft, coiled copper is handy when you want to avoid a soldered joint behind drywall. You can bend it by hand, and pay thru the nose.
"This Old House" did a season on a London townhouse a few years ago. They discussed the English preference for bending copper, rather than using fittings as in the US. I think they used something similar to a conduit bender. The hardness of the pipe is the key.
The Mercer Museum in Doylestown, PA recently installed new electrical wiring, using what the staff calls "submarine wiring". Everything runs on the surface of the all-concrete building in 1/4 inch copper with waterproof compression fittings at boxes, bent like conduit with no soldered fittings. I'm guessing the copper provides one conductor with a "hot" insulated wire inside, since the 1/4 inch size is too small for two conductors. Any former submariners out there who can explain how this works?
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Greg --
My experience is with USS Roncador, SS 301, commissioned in 1944 and scrapped in 1975. The conduit was steel pipe, not copper. Lights were 120 volt DC. I was only aboard for a movie shoot in 1973, not in the Navy.
-- J.S.
*PeteCost, time and eliminating the jointing process and later potential joint failure add up, up and up.
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Jerry,
Yes, I made a Typo error. OOOOPS!
Phil
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Whoever installed the boiler in my new (for me) home made smooth, tight radius bends and offsets in 1/2" and 3/4" hard copper pipe. I searched the archives and found some info regarding this. I tried a conduit bender but was not happy with the results. Then I got a Harbor Frieght catalog today and saw this:
View Image
Hydraulic Pipe Bender
Would it work? Is there an easier way? Is "bending temper" hard copper readily available?
Thanks,
Jerry
*Jerry:That is a nice looking picture. I found a similar product in the Northern Tool & Eqpt. catalog. It had both 12 and 16 ton versions. The description said it was for all pipe except conduit. The larger one said it would bend cast iron pipe up to 3" dia! Now think they mean steel? Cast iron is very brittle and I think would require a lot of heat to get it malliable. No mention of copper pipe.Why not ask the boiler guys what they used to bend the pipe?Frank
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Back to bending........
Any suggestions on making, and accurately repeating, large radius bends (say, 18"-24") in type L copper?
Sand packing?