Replies

1. 
   BillHartmann | Jul 18, 2004 11:28pm | #1

   "The climate is relatively mild here in NE KS. "

   Mild compared to WHAT.

   You are in an EMC (equally misserable climate) zone.

   " I will be subcontracting out a stem wall and drainage that will have a footing about 40" below finished grade"

   That distance is for reason, called frost depth. How about -20 F. Well that was unual, Dec of 89. But the area is does not have "mild winters", about 5,000 HDD.

   You need some heat directed into that area. The suppliment radiant sounds like a good idea.

   But unless you need the floor insulation to "direct" the heat for radiant I would not not insulate the floors.

   Nor would I install an vents in the crawlspace. Insulate the crawlspace foundation walls.

1. 
   Sasquatch | Jul 19, 2004 01:54am | #4

   I guess I consider this area about middle-of-the road climate-wise, as well as geographically, although it leans right politically.  I have lived in many states during my 34 years of military service, and in several foreign countries, before retiring and forming my own construction company.  I should add that it will be a one-man company for a while, with subcontracting for what I don't like to do or don't have the equipment for.  This was after some hard lessons learned trying to use the local labor force.  I could have added some horror stories to the current thread on unproductive employees, but decided to not relive that period.

   Sometimes it does get as hot as Florida here  but not as cold as Alaska or Montana.  I spent 4.5 years in FL and don't want to do that again.  Alaska was great.  I have never seen the frost get much below 24" in the NE, MO, KS region, although the official frost line is much lower.  Local code only requires 34 to 36" depending upon which county you are in.  On the other hand, I definitely want to build for worst-case.

   I plan to install 2" insulation on the outside of the foundation.  Are you recommending that I install some sort of supplementary heat in the crawl space if I do not put in radiant heat?

   I am comfortable with most aspects of construction, but find that there is little information available in this particular area.  Everyone I ask has a different opinion locally.  Some of the stronger opinions I have heard do not make much sense to me.  This is why I would like to build this addition with a fresh point of view.

   Thanks for your help.Les Barrett Quality Construction

1. 
   BillHartmann | Jul 19, 2004 02:52am | #6

   First of all I am not a building pro. I am engineer by training (electrical), but I have to "engineer" everything that I do.

   I picked out the matrials for my house when I built it in 79, of course lots of things have changed since them. So I am interested in all of the building science type of articles.

   And I have been doing DIY projects on my house and that of some friends. Just finished a basement finish for a friend. Now I am doing some M&R and house to put it on the market. Built a year after mine and I see some of the same problems as in mine. Just to put somethings in perspective.

   But that is a fair size room and if I understand it correctly it will be exposed on 3 sides. And depending on which exposure, now much windows and what quality, and now much "connection" (open passages) with the other parts of the house will determine how much HVAC it will need. Also what the space will be used for. For example if you have a 16x12 MBR and the outter walls of this addition will all be walking closet and you will have a 16x8 open space that become part of the MBR with the remainder closet them it probably does not need any addtional HVAC.

   Now make this a children play room with the door closed all the time and lots of "cheap" windows and you will every be hanging meat in there is the winter or using it to bake bread in the summer.

   Now I have no rules of thumb about how much and when HVAC is needed in a case like this, but I would not do a project like this without having, at least a backup plan. A way that the existing system can be extended or additional system added afterwards.

   The 2" insulation on the outside of the foundation sounds like a great plan. I am not suggesting heating the crawlspace, but rather the room.

   Countour Products (or it might be packaging) makes the R-control stuff. They are in KC, KS.

   Interesting sidebar I know of this company as I consulted with a sister company about some digital controls for a walfel maker.

   You might want to look at some of the buildingscience.com info.

   http://www.buildingscience.com/housesthatwork/default.htm

   We are in the Mixed-Humid climate.

   http://www.buildingscience.com/housesthatwork/mixedhumid/default.htm

   Now they don't show any buildings with insulation on the outside of the foundation, but they have downloadable file on basement insualtion,

   http://www.buildingscience.com/resources/foundations/basement_insulation_systems.pdf

   And indicate that is a workable system, but the typical the cost of puting a protective surface of it is cost more and the inside insulation is more common.

1. 
   Sasquatch | Jul 19, 2004 03:27pm | #7

   Thanks for the links.  I will definitely have the backup plan in the design so that I do not build a problem.  Now I just have to convince the homeowner about the need to extend the HVAC.Les Barrett Quality Construction

1. 
   BillHartmann | Jul 19, 2004 04:58pm | #8

   At Buildingscience.com under the Whats new they have a bunch of short articles. One is on Crawlspace Design.

   They show crawlspace foundation wall details with the insulation on the outside and with insualtion on the inside and a number of other details.

2. 
   Sasquatch | Jul 20, 2004 03:12am | #9

   Thanks!  I got into the site and found I have a lot of research and studying to do.  I'm sure I can use this to present better options to my client, who is also my neighbor.  I always try to do a good job, but it is hard to tell a friend you won't do a job unless your own standards are met.  I want to save him money, but do not want to cut corners on critically important items.  I think this site will give me the ammo I need to get the job done right.  Thanks again.Les Barrett Quality Construction

2. 
   xMikeSmith | Jul 19, 2004 12:07am | #2

   les.. i was stationed in Ft. Sill for 4 years... so your definition of mild is not the same as mine..

    anyways... if you want RFH, you HAVE to insulate the floor.. .. you might consider WarmBoard RFH.. and then put ply across the joist bottoms and blow the cavities with dens-pak cells...

   if you are NOT using RFH, i'd do just as Bill suggests.. insulate the crawl space walls .. not the floor..

   i'd insulate with a 3" EPS panel bonded to 1/2" gypsum , if it's dry..

    or bonded to 1/4" hardiboard if it's not dry.....

    there should be a franchised  R-Control EPS mfr' near you

   Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   BillHartmann | Jul 19, 2004 01:45am | #3

   "there should be a franchised R-Control EPS mfr' near you"

   Right across the Kaw River.

2. 
   Sasquatch | Jul 19, 2004 01:55am | #5

   I will cross the Kaw and check into it.  Thanks.Les Barrett Quality Construction