Looking to find out what is the best jigsaw out there. Saw a Bosch 1590 but the base plate didn’t lock well. Anyone else have this problem or what other one can you recommend.
Thanks
Looking to find out what is the best jigsaw out there. Saw a Bosch 1590 but the base plate didn’t lock well. Anyone else have this problem or what other one can you recommend.
Thanks
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Replies
festool
Festool
Check out the older model--1587--base uses a allen bolt--tool stores on the cord near the body--
I don't angle cut very often so the toolless fast change base is no big deal to me.
I think the others would agree that the 1587 is about as bulletproof as they come.
O.K. here comes the rebuttles----
And with the 1590 out now the 1587 can be had at a heck of a price.
Mike
" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
had a bosch (still do) 1587, and upgraded to the festool.... Wow what a diffrence. It is like having a portable bandsaw. I was able to cut four pieces of plywood laminated together and get almost a 90 angle cut with a 21/2 inch radius curve...
wish it had a tool free base change though..
the splinter free inserts cut almost as clean as my ez-smart...
Good topic, specially since I'm starting to test jigsaws for an FHB article. What is it you guys really want from a jigsaw? What uses do you put them to?
Thanks,Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
the ability to maintain the cut 90 degrees to the face is the primarary requirement. The Festool's guides come closer to this than anything else.
I agree that's critical, and I plan to test for it by cutting a bunch of 5/4 oak. Other thoughts on the topic?Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
I think a better test would be 2x pressure treated material.
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It's only satisfying if you eat it.
Andy
Maintaining a consistent angle to the base (90 or whatever) when cutting curves, and resistance of the base to damage like bending or diggers that leve marks on the finished surface.
BILL
Great feedback. Keep it coming.
One of my peeves with my ancient Makita jigsaw is that its base no longer stays clamped at any particular bevel angle. I did buy it in 1985, but gee whiz, how about a little longevity? <G>
What about vibration? Cutting speed? Sight lines? Blade change?Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
sight lines - dust blower
Will it accept a Collins coping foot
Hey Andy,I haven't read through the entire thread yet. If I repeat anything that's been said just ignore it.I've got a 1587 and have had it for as long as I can remember. I like it, but the blade does flex a bit more than I'd like. I'm torn between the 1590 or going Festool. One thing I'd like to see tested or at least discussed are the variety of blades and how they perform. I'd like to see a bit on jigs, trammels, coping foot, splinter guards, dust build up on the line I'm supposed to be following, corded vs. battery powered. Since many of us use these saws as precision instruments it would be nice to see if there's any slop in the arbor and if the setting on the base is precise (is 90 really 90?) DeWalt's new jigsaw can make a cut flush with the front of the saw which can be handy at times. Look forward to reading the piece. I'm sure it will be very thorough.
Yikes! You're looking for a book! We've got to leave room for photos, you know!Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
Since it is a Jigsaw test, I guess you could leave off the options (trammels, etc.) and focus on precision and ergonomics. I think a discussion on barrel grip vs top handle would be interesting as well as a provocation for people to call you names.Jim
Andy,A corded jigsaw has to be smooth, powerful, have a dust blower so you can see the cut line, and must be capable of clean straight cuts as well as contours. The hand position needs to be comfortable and not so high off the work that control is compromised. Adjustable orbital action and tool-free blade changes are also essential. Ditto what others said about holding a cut perpendicular. Tool should be quiet, which usually accompanies smoothness. Dust collection-cabability is also good to have, but I've never used it.I was all ready to buy a new 1590 when they came out, until I held one in the tool store. Too tall and heavy. I'm saving for a Festool top handle and gonna keep my 1587 with the Collins foot always on it. Top handle jigsaws work best in the field, but barrel grips are great in a shop, or for coping, IMO.Bill
Here are some of the essential points I think should be covered in any piece about this type of saw. But first, I realize you can't say it in so many words, but I would venture that 90% of your readers are most concerned to know how the Festool stacks up to the new Bosch 1590, and the older 1587.1) Blade wander in 2X stock (forget the 5/4 oak). I think this is one of the prime issues for saws of this type, and it would be nice if you could set up some kind of objective test to actually measure the performance differences between the various saws. Before setting up any such test (where I assume you would use the same blade in all the saws), you would do well to play around with different size blades, and you should get some Festool blades (which use the Bosch configuration) too. I can't prove it, but the Festool blades seem to perform better than the Bosch brand. 2) Cut quality. I think they all have inserts for splinter free cuts, and I'd like to know how they differ, how easy is it to insert/remove them, and of course, how effective are they. The Festool inserts work splendidly,and are fairly inexpensive. But after a few cuts, the plastic clouds over, and it is difficult to see your cut line. The Bosch inserts on my 1587 are shaped differently (they don't surround the blade), so seeing your line is never a problem. 3) Is the blower effective? Nuff said..........4) Blade changes. Everybody tries to make it as easy as possible, and this issue is not worth a lot of space. Your quick assessment of each system would be adequate. 5) Smooth running/vibration. I don't have the foggiest how you would test this, but it does need to be covered. None of them are completely vibration free, but some are certainly better than others. 6) Ergonomics. I think some mention needs to be made on how the saw handles, type/and switch location, how easy it is to tilt the base, etc. I think the above covers the bare essentials of what would make a piece useful. But I would urge two side bars:A. Top handle vs. Barrel grip. My 1587 is a barrel grip, and I never thought much about it until I bought a top handle Festool (I now wish I hadn't).B. Blade choices. Bosch seems to own the market for blades, and they have a bewildering variety available. I don't know how you would do it, but I would like to see you take the most common cuts (maybe 4-5), and tell me specifically which blade(s) would be best for that type of cutting. I would like to see you get a fistful of Festool blades and make a personal judgment on whether or not they are any better than Bosch; if they aren't, I would just toss them out and concentrate on giving us info on the Bosch blades (if you can get away with that), since that is what is most commonly available. Good luck with the piece.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I appreciate your's and billbrennen's input about the Festool and I am going to next buy a jig saw. I, too, have felt the new Bosch and it just seems like a horse and I do like the barrels also....just closer to the work, feels more controled to me anyway. I am also waiting to raise the sum for the Festool. I have had the older Bosch and an AKG almost identical to it. From all the dicussion I've heard and what I've felt at the tool store, the Festool is the one to have.
the 90* thing is the primary, other things I would like (and I am in the looking to upgrade status now) would be
A base that can tilt to other angles and have the angle markings to be pretty accurate with positive stops at 45 and 22 1/2.
A built in LED light for the cut area that can be turned on or off as desired.
A built in blower to keep the cut line clear.
A blade or a saw designed to use a blade that would cut to the front edge of the saw, so that you could saw right up to wall instead of having to manually cut the last 2 inches or so. - I undersatnd that DeWalt has one that can do this.
I would also like to see a test on the tool-less blade change holders and how well they keep the blade in place and if they tend to affect the blade staying at set angle.
I agree a test on blades would be nice, as well as a discussion on top handle vs. barrel grip.
Now, since we are dreaming, how about one that could be used either corded or cordless.
And if you want more ideas and input, post this question over in Knots also.
1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go 4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
Edited 2/2/2006 10:01 am ET by Ricks503
Edited 2/2/2006 10:05 am ET by Ricks503
Edited 2/2/2006 10:07 am ET by Ricks503
Thanks! Those are all good features.
I'm starting to play with the saws, and one feature I'm finding to be critical is vibration control. A blade that stays at 90 degrees is good, too. I like lights, and I like tool-less bevel changing.
Many of the saws have blowers, but several have hook ups for dust collection instead. I like that feature, but I wonder how many guys (and gals) would hook up a jigsaw to a vac on-site?Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
5) Smooth running/vibration. I don't have the foggiest how you would test this, but it does need to be covered. None of them are completely vibration free, but some are certainly better than others.
Last time FHB did this test they used time lapse photography to show how much different saws vibrated around when run without a blade. It seemed to be a good judge of vibration. I bought an AEG barrel grip based on that article, still love it, but am looking at the festool...
The other thing I use my jigsaw for all the time is coping the miter cuts on trim work. I would love to see that test thrown in.Craftwork Construction LLC
If you are doing research, check out the Porter Cable 548 - labelled a bayonet saw instead of jig saw, it's been used for years by a core group of heavy duty users - sign shops, metal fab shops etc. I think part of its appeal is it is worm drive - read "geared down" so it can run cool continuously all day.
I suspect all the others are simply "beefed up" motors that run great short term but are not continuous duty rated machines (hard to find any of those any more). And that is probably what builders need/want.
But it would be interesting to track down some dedicated 548 users and find out its appeal - after all, it has the ongest production record of any jig/bayonet saw and it is probably the priciest!
Interesting. Specs list it at $319, and a whopping 7 pounds.
View Image--------------------------
It's only satisfying if you eat it.
I love that little saw, but having used it, I think it's appeal might be limited.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
Yes its appeal might be limited but who does like it - with all the cost cutting and dicontinuing of machines, there have got to be folks buying a $300+ saw for PC to keep making it - again how many machines can you name that have remained unchanged for the past 50 years (the only change I'm aware of is from one speed to a variable speed trigger switch)?
That PC 348 was the first saber saw I bought -- somewhere back in the 70's, when it carried the Rockwell brand. I still have it. But these days I keep a metal cutting blade on it, and that is all it is used for. Having owned it for so many years, I am mystified about it's appeal. As you say, somebody must like it for them to keep it in the catalog; and if I am not mistaken, it's current price makes it the most expensive saw in the category. I never especially liked it; blade wander was always a problem, vibrated more than I liked, and you need to lube it periodically (like a Skill 77). And then, if you get a little too much oil in the chamber, it spits out over the piece you're cutting.You have to remember though, that 30 years ago this saw and the Bosch were really the only decent saws in the market; all the rest were el cheapo brands. When I bought the Bosch 1587, maybe 15 years ago, that seemed like a giant leap ahead. While less of a problem than the PC, the blade still wanders some when cutting 2X stock. And on my old model, the CLIC system for blade changes works ok, but is kind of klutzy. She's groaning a bit these days, but this is still the saw I carry with me everyday to the job site. About a year or so ago, I skipped around the Bosch 1590, and instead bought the Festool Trion saw -- which was like "the great leap forward" when compared to the 1587. No more blade wander, virtually no vibration, splinter free cuts, etc. My only regret is that I bought the model with the top handle instead of the barrel grip. ********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I picked up mine at Liberty Tool in Liberty Maine for $20 - excellent condition. Yes it does have a somewhat limited use but it is one heavy duty machine.
Andy, I have an early model Bosch, the latest Bosch which I bought about a year ago, and a few months back I sprang for the Festool. For me, it's all about perpendicular cuts, and I'll buy whatever tool will deliver. I agree that the test just include 2x pt, since 2xs are jig sawn a lot for decorative rafter tails, deck building, etc. Vibration is important in the quality of cut as well, and so far, the Festool is the smoothest jigsaw I've owned.
Another idea is the various options that are available for each. They pretty much all have an edge guide as either standard or (most likely) an option, but what about circle cutting jigs? And the Festool has the option of adapting to the guide system.
Which are, or claim, to be Splinter-free, and how does each accomplish it.
Good luck.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
I want it to cut fast and be able to cut 2x. I have a PC and the base sits so low I have to buy extra long blades to cut 2x. I have a Sears Industrial that will cut 2x with shorter blades.
I needed a jigsaw NOW and didn't feel like make'n 60 mile round trip to get my pc so i picked up a skill brand on sale for like $60 at HD... has the light, the lazer, and dust blower and a vac port... this is not a bad tool for the $$ for me blade quality seems to have as much to do with cut quality as anything
p
Andy Engel.......Please........when doing a comparison on any saws the "Blades" are more important to me . My bosch jig saw will do anything I want it to if I use the right blade. If your cutting PT the blade makes the difference as I'msure you know. When it comes to putting the "rubber to the road " or the blade to the wood ,what makes it go up and down is pretty much the same, of the features offered by different brands they are convience add ons. Looking forward to your article and by the way what do you do with your old saws besides loan them out ?
Good input. This article won't go much into blades, I'm afraid. But you've given me the next idea to pitch! Thanks.
The tested tools either go back to the manufacturer, or are donated to Habitat or to a trade school.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
The Bosch is pretty much the standard that others are compared to. As far as the foot locking down tight, there is a wheel that controls the tension of the lock. If you tighten it up, it will lock up as tight as anything out there. The new Bosch has some really nice features over the older Bosch (which is head and shoulders above most other brands). Rapid bevel changes and instant no-touch blade changes come to mind, but the guides that pinch the blade are probably one of the best features of the saw. They really work.
Perhaps a sidebar including cordless jigsaws. Are there any besides Bosch and Dewalt? The mechanics within the brand should be very similar but the balance with the battery is certainly different. How does the balance effect the ability to wiggle the jigsaw around while coping?
eric
I was just about to suggest a separate article on blades when I read your response two or three posts back, great idea. Maybe include recip saw blades in the same article? I waste more time trying to decide if the more expensive blades are worth it. I usually buy the cheapest blades for demo work, and buy the most expensive blades for finish work, but this simply assumes that price is relative to quality, but is it really?
As for the jigsaw, I'm a Bosch barrel grip fan. Most of my thoughts have been discussed already but I'm curious if anyone makes a nylon insert for their base to prevent marring finished surfaces. The blue masking tape trick usually works well enough though. My biggest gripe with the Bosch is always having to wrestle the cord back into the case (I feel this is one tool worth keeping in its case). Sometimes I feel like Jim on Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom trying to stuff the boa constrictor into the burlap sack.
Related question, is jigsaw synonymous with saber saw? I've also heard folks refer to scroll saws as jigsaws. Since FHB is the revered authority, how about laying down the law once and for all on terminology so we can get on with our work (Ha!)
Also curious, do you know of any tool manufacturers that have actually taken tool test data (or other consumer feedback) to improve their products?
I'm curious if anyone makes a nylon insert for their base to prevent marring finished surfaces. The blue masking tape trick usually works well enough though.
I bought some self stick Velcro, and stuck a couple strips of the soft "furry" side to the base plate of my Bosch. Works great.--------------------------
It's only satisfying if you eat it.
I've heard them called jigsaws, scroll saws, bayonet saws, and saber saws. Although jigsaw and scroll saw also refer to the stationary woodworking tool, we've settled on jigsaw. It seems to be the most commonly used term.
I'm not sure if any of the big manufacturers have used FHB's or FWW's tests as a basis for improvement. I know that when asked, most product managers and media relations folks are surprisingly honest about their tools' shortcomings. "Yeah, we know about that. We're re-engineering it now..." And I do know that power tools seem to constantly get better, so maybe they pay attention. Also, the big players - Bosch, Milwaukee, and DeWalt that I've talked to, and probably everybody else, too - do a bunch of market research to find out how tools are used and what you guys want. Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
Andy,Since my earlier post I bought the top handle Festool jigsaw. After test cuts with both, it was clear that top handle works for me and my muscle memory. Some of their blades are thicker than others. The thick ones are what you want for square edges when scrolling in thick wood (think 4x decorative corbels). Saw is due to arrive today. I am curious if the thick blades fit into the Bosch.Bill
Yes, the blades fit the Bosch.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
"I'm curious if anyone makes a nylon insert for their base to prevent marring finished surfaces."
Several years ago bosch had one that I bought, just snaps onto their shoe. Don't know if it's still available...Buic
Almost all of the current saws have that shoe.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
How is the Jigsaw test going?
Well, thanks. It's done. But I can't tell you which my favorite was yet. Sorry. I can tell you some cool stuff, though. DeWalt can cut flush with the front of the saw. Milwaukee has a really bright LED. Bosch has a really sweet blade change. Hilti is now making a jigsaw, and it's a nice tool. There were a couple of duds, but choosing between the best saws wasn't easy.
To get more out of me, you'll either have to buy the magazine when it comes out, or find me at JLCLive in Providence (I'll be at the Western Red Cedar Lumber Association's booth), and buy me many beers after the show. Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
Let me know when the mag is out and I will sure get it.
You know, my perspective is odd. I think about when I have to have an article in. When it hits the newsstand hardly enters my thinking. I'd guess that this is the June/July issue, but I'm not certain.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
Festool
if using a CCF, Bosch barrel grip
"A bore is a man who, when you ask him how he is, tells you." -Bert Taylor
Bosch Barrel Grip, although I have to admit being very tempted to try the Festool.
BILL
I have a Kashta Jigsaw. Works great, but hard to find in stores. I even don't remember where I bought this piece, LOL.