I understand that Stabila levels are a superior product, but as a young carpenter fairly new to the trade, the hefty price is hard to justify. Is there another, less expensive brand of level that is comparable to Stabila’s quality or do I just need to bite the bullet?
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Replies
Johnson has a nice box beam level at about half the price. I protect mine in a case and it still looks relatively new after 5 years. Treat them delicately and they will offer you years of trustworthy service. As with any new level, check it at the store, find a reasonably level/plumb spot and do the flip test to check the vials for accuracy. Check several of the levels you are interested in and pick the best one.
Ditto on the Johnson yellow box beam.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I have a Johnson mohogany and brass bound that must be 25 years old and stilll reads true.when I buy a new level, I usually have to check 2/3 of the ones in the store to find one that reads true on all bubbles. On a bet once, I demonstrated this to another guy and let him choose the store.LOL, he led me into HD and we could only find two true levels in the whole rack. He lost the bet and I bought us lunch
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Trying to find a level level is much like finding a square square. They don't have to be expensive to be true. I have a light 6' aluminum I-beam which remains nameless since the sticker fell off, bang on 10 yrs later. One of the select few tools I have feelings for.
I have Stabila levels that are used daily and have seen some extreme abuse. They are all 8-10 years old and have been dropped off of roofs, one has been run over by a pickup, and generally seen some hard usage. I think that if you break down and buy the best you will never be dissatisfied. The only one that is kept in a case is my 8 footer, the others just get normal treatment and haven't failed yet.
I have a hammer that has seen less abuse. If I die I hope I don't come back as one of your levels.
Why not? They sound immortal as Zeus!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I don't try to abuse them but in the process of working things happen, especially when you have four to six guys using tools that they don't have to buy themselves. They would value them more if there was a price that they paid for it I'm sure. The other day we were framing a deck and I had to run to the lumber yard so I told my helper to unload the suff out of the truck and move the miter saw out of the way. Well I didn't know that the circular saw was also sitting on the miter stand but anyway he unplugs the circ. saw sets it down and moves the miter saw, I back up right over top of my circ saw with a 3/4 ton ford..... I was just a little hot to say the least. It was a Milwaukee and the only thing that broke was the handle on the blade gaurd which I reattached with some gel epoxy.... Built Ford Tough!
BFT - LOL
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You slay me. LOL!
I think that would be Thor's job
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
What are you looking for when you do these test and how do you perform them?
Bart,
There is a company that makes a great level for a lot less than the Stabila, but its still not cheap.
Kaypro, or Kapro they are red and there was a lot of talk on here about them a few months ago. You may have to find a local dealer, which for a level is probably smarter than buying on line... you can see them in your hand.
-zen
KAYPRO is now distributed under the home depot brand name same level.
I have had a KAYPRO for about 5 years now and it has held up well especially since I use it to tamp the dirt in fence post holes, have replaced the end caps twice. Emailed Isreal great response and attitude. Just bought a back up clearanced at Sears for 14$.Also got a soft case from DULUTH TRADING for 10$ so my new level is a premadonna.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Remodeler/Punchout
what you are doing is a comparative reading of all vials and whether they read true with one another.First thing is to eyeball the level from the end to see that it is straight. Most are, but some have a slight crownThen let's check the center horizontal reading first. The two opposed vails in the center ( sometimes just one)
You lay the level on a flat, solid, close to level surface. It is nice if it is leevel but you don't know and it is not impoortant that it be level. you read the vial, and note the exact location of the bubble in reference to the lines. If dead center so be it, if barely touching the left line.... whatever - note it.Then turn the level over top to baottom to see if it gives the same reading that way, then flip end for end and read again, then top to bottom again. By now, you have compared all four possible readings in the exact same spot on the counter.EVERY SINGLE READING SHOULD BE EXACTLY THE SAME. if even one read is in disagreement with the others, the tool is lying to you. I want a toll I can trust and this is no way to begijn a long relationship.now do the same comparisson on all the plumb vials reading top and bottom bubbles on a wall or door jamb, something that will hold still long enough to do the whole comparison testing. If the bubbles all read the same, the level is true, whether the surface you are using to test is or not. You just want it to be close enough that the bubble references the lines.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Bart,
The new levels made by Empire are pretty impressive for the money, they are rock solid and would certainly be worth you taking a closer look if you're in the market - lots of nice features.
http://www.empirelevel.com/abouttrue.html
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
if U can't afford the stabila just yet ...
I'd say most any off the shelf level compares equally to the next ...
the trick is ... as everyone has mentioned ... you gotta find one that's level to begin with. Plan on spending some time in the store ... and plan on hitting a coupla stores if need be ... then ... plan on taking real good care of the one you finally bought.
then ... save up and buy a coupla stabilas.
getting a cheap case and actually paying attention to when it's sitting will greatly help it's life. And like the bread and eggs ... when packing the truck it goes in last and on top of everything else. U got a pick up? Rifle racks in the back window ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Just bought 3 new Johnsons, the box beams with the through handles. A 6', 4' and 2'. I spent about an hour in the store for each one making sure they were level/plumb, the salespeople thought I was a little crazy...well they're right. My old ones had been abused and kicked around, so I took the time to build a maple rack along the cieling of my van away from everything else that might ding, dent or knock them out of true.It uses a turn type clamp that when tightened, holds them firmly in place. I do mostly trim and kitchen installations and found these levels to be the best bang for the buck. I have used the Stablias and they are great levels, but these Johnsons are made exactly the same and it was simply a choice I made to save some $$. The key to good levels is the care you give them, that goes for all tools.
You need to bite the bullet. I have seen bad Johnson levels out of the box. Stabila levels are the standard. Even if a cheaper level is good in the store doesn't mean it will stay good for long. I am an old carpenter and have bought countless levels over the years. If I started out with stabila (They were not commonly available until about ten years ago.) then I would have saved a lot of money in the long run. Same goes for a square. Buy a nice combo square that will be square. Starrett is the standard for squares. Having nice tools pays off in the long run and in the meantime they are also a pleasure to use.
Save up, buy 'em once, and forget about it. Lifetime warranty.
I've got ya beat on the smaller stuff, but I still haven't purchased the plate level (I'll justify with my current major rmdl). So my question to you is.... do you have both plate levels for the braggin rights or is there reason to get one or the other. I've been pondering the issue of the two different lengths (although not enough to seek the answer before now). Any input/advice welcome. BTW cheap inaccurate tools are never a deal. Buy Stabila.
Kevin
You're new to the trade...a great time to make wise purchases.
I find that I want certain tools - particularly the ones that get used frequently - to be of professional level quality. You circ saw for example. Your hammer. Your pouch rig. Your tape measure. Good tools feel good, they are safer, more accurate, and you'll feel good about using them. They will pay you back each day you use them: you'll feel more confident, and you'll project a professional image.
IMHO, levels fall in that category. Get a real good one, look after it, check it periodically, and you'll build with more confidence.
Here is a really good level at half the price of a Stabila. http://www.master-level.com
A few dollars more over the other levels mentioned but every bit as good as Stabila.
Adjustable vials too so you can always have it bang on calibrated.
I'm like the others - except I came from the management side and started "hands-on" a few years ago. I buy Stabila once, & it's right. A carp I work with loves his Starrett 4 ft.
I've had a Chester-Rayborne 36" for 25 years. True as the day it was made. Dad left me an old mahogany level, a 24" - I don't trust it but it was a good one in it's day.
Ditto on the Johnsons. I took my Stabila door hanger level into HD and checked EVERY 24" level over $25.00 when I needed a new one. Forget the Stanleys, Husky, and the other cheapies. I found ONE Johnson that agreed with my Stabila. I got it.
I'm too poor to buy cheap.
Quality repairs for your home.
AaronR Construction
Vancouver, Canada
I think that the higher end Johnson levels are nice, actually like them better than the Stabilia's. I dont know how they will stand up over time though. Fellow carpenter has a 2', 4', and 6' Johnson (level that is) and has been very happy with them. They have two versions, one a solid one, the other has hand holds.
The Master levels are nice also, I would say on par with Stabilia.
Another one you might want to look at are the Irwins ( basically the levelution line that was bought out by Irwin). I dont know what the priceing on the Irwins are though, may be close to the Stabilia's.
The one thing to do though (if you dont mail order), is to check the levels out in the store to make sure they are reading accurately ( even the Stabilia's will have some that are off).
Good luck...........
m2akita
The new Irwins might be hard to beat. I don't know of another level brand that can be recalibrated.
You've seen the comments pointing out that any level can be off calibration, and this would seem to solve it.
I can certainly understand the desire for a quality tool, such as a level. But, for me, the weak link when using a level is my eyesight. Even with reading glasses and good lighting, any accurate level can only get me as accurate as I can see.
How about a level with an oversized vial? Are there such things?
-Don
Master levels can be adjusted. The GC I sub for has a set of them an they are on par with the Stablias.
By recalibration you mean adjustable, right?
The Starrett box beams (fluorescent yellow) have adjustable acrylic vials. They are a nice premium level. Mine travels in a plastic case.http://costofwar.com/
just my two cents worth...I have Stabilas, love 'em even at the $$$$$....but I also have a very old Empire extendable, it had long since lost it's spring foot....when I saw that Empire was making a push back into the market, I called them up to see if parts were still availible....they sent me a new foot, no charge!