Best product for filling exterior trim
benak
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
This forum is great. I’ve gotten several useful ideas from you all. The advice on my front door installation – it’s now installed and looks great. So here it goes again. <!—-><!—-><!—->
I inadvertently gouged up some brick mold trim which will go on some exterior windows. (Trying to chisel some polyurethane glue off. Next time I’ll mask off the parts which I don’t want to have glue on. Also next time I’ll throw some newspaper on my garage floor. That glue took the paint right off.) What would be a good weatherproof filler to use before I prime and paint? I am considering Bondo…. <!—-><!—->
Thanks in advance.<!—-><!—->
Ben <!—-><!—->
Replies
bondo is great.
Work with it - be there just as it is kicking to carve it with a sharp knife or chisle. It slices like butter then. Two minutes later it is hard and you have a lot of sanding to do
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I just used the Bondo trick you described and it worked great. I masked around all of the holes, Bondoed them, took off the tape and chiseled them smooth. Thanks.
Ben
Bondo is great................for metal work only really (like car bodies which I think is what it was originally created for). I've read that Bondo used in wood applications is not good. It doesn't expand or contract and is hard as brick. When used with wood, bondo will eventually develop small cracks at the seam between the wood and the bondo due to the wood's movement. There are products for wood specifically out there-I recently used Rotfix and then Sculpwood (by System Three) on top of that for a porch railing project which worked well (although a bit pricey).
I normaally use the Minwax wood filer thaat works exactly like bondo for application. But I've also used a lot of bondo. For a big job a gallon is a lot cheaper and I have never observed the failure you explaain s possible.M aybe I'm lucky
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I've only read that about Bondo in a recent magazine and it seemed to make sense. But I guess, due to the responses here, that maybe that article was just speculation. I would love to see a Bondo repair on wood after 5 or ten years. Anyone out there experience that time span. I've used a Raycrete product too and after 2 years its been great (exposed to the weather on a window sill). We'll see over the long haul how it holds up.
On the longevity question - I work on an island, in a small community. My clients are the same ones recycled over the years. I see my work again after a few years when I go back to do more, and sometimes on social occasions. I see occasional glue joints fail, and pait that ages. I see the results of homeowners who fail to do the basics like shovel snow off thedecks and clean the debris out of the gutters or close the upstairs window when they leave for the winter.But I have never yet seen a Bondo failure.I first heaqrd of bondo in '87 as being used for exterior wood repair, but I ignored it, thinking, hey, that guy is a fisherman and a mason more than a carpenter. what's he know? Well, he knows what keeps water out of a wood boat where his life and livelihood depend on it. Anyway, I stuck primarily with the Minwax wood version of bondo for most jobs for a few years, trhen when I visited the Fypon factory about 6-7 years ago to check out their product, I asked in the fabrication and install dept what they recommended for hole patching or other damage. The answer? "We use Bondo, just like you do for wood"So when I have a large job requiring it, I gewt a gallon of bondo. For other jobs, I keep a few of the smaller tins of Minwax mix'n'fix in the truck. Maybre there is a chemical difference, but as far I am concerned, it doesn't make a noticeable difference in performance.
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Well, I can give you one after 10 years and it failed just like you speculated. Had some wood rot on the window sills which was all carefully removed. Put some galvanized nails into the good wood to ensure it held well and put in the Bondo. Looked great. Noticed the Bondo had broken from the wood after a couple years, caulked and repainted. Went to sell the house and discovered it had broken the seal again and had to remove and replace the entire sill.Steve.
My vote is for Abbatron Wood Epox. 13 years ago, I stripped the casings and sills on my 80 year old windows, removed any rot, and opened up any checks and cracks with a dremel with a straight router-type bit. Preprimed everything with Abbatons Primkote to stiffen up the wood fibers (Minwax Wood Hardener works good also). Filled all voids with Wood Epox, sanded smooth, 2coats BM oil primer, and 2 coats BM latex semigloss. Still in perfect condition. By contrast, 1 sill which I did the year before using the minwax "bondo" has failed (although admittedly I didn't do as good a job on surface prep). I've even used the wood epox to repair cracks and voids in window putty and to repair water damaged plaster in a shower.
@@@ My vote is for Abbatron Wood Epox.
I like the WEST system. Reason - they will sell you metering pumps for the resin and hardener so you can quickly and easily get the correct ratios. Expoy is picky about that, unlike Bondo and such.
Any luck with Bondo lasting in exterior applications? The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
you didn't use a consolidant at the edges of the bad wood removed is why
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That's because it didn't come in the Bondo can! For some of the other repairs I had to do last month I used the Elmers two part wood repair kit which came with a consolidant. Sounds like you, unlike most, are in a position to see the long term performance of your work so I expect you are right about that.I also learned to caulk the hell out of every place where vertical wood on windows and doors meets the horizontal piece.Steve.
when you buy a can of paint the brush doesn't come in the can, nor does the sandpaper, the primer, or the thinner. There is more to a job thana what immediately jumps out at you.Live and learn...
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Alright I will add my two cents worth.
To thin a layer will flake and break away.
All fillers need to be primed and painted as soon as curing is completed.
The wood next to your repair area will likely fail as it was already in a later stage and the bondoed area will not let the wood dry evenly and this will lead to failure.
All this said, I have dozens of sills that I repaired over 5 years ago that still look as good as the day I did them, but I am always telling same homeowners to get their woodwork painted and caulked every 2-3 years and seldom do they listen.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
Another Bondo lover. I even used it to replace the spalled faces of some bricks that had popped off from snow not being shovelled off the balcony on a rental. I spread Bondo on the wall, tooled in the 'mortar' joints, textured with a wire brush, then painted to match. After ten years, you still can't pick out the patch.
I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a bad idea to go through the steps in prepping a surface ,it more important to the surface than the application of a filler. Especially with moisture and steps to dry things out, maybe a few scenarios . The reason why i feeel is the moisture problem is the A-1# culprit, and you living on an island. who else better..... whatta ya think??.." Crea la mitad de lo que usted ve, y nada de lo que usted oye."
I'm on laptop tonight, but tomorrow I can fish a bunch of photos out from my other pc to go along with
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here are a couple things i use: 1) buy a hair dryer, get one of those ace hardware cheap three dollar paint buckets cut a hole on the bottom insert the hair dryer. this will concentrate the heat over the spot . i use old copper vent pipes and bore 3/32 holes( as many that'll fit) in the bottom 1 1/2" of the pipe insert the dryer in the pipe, and the pipe into the place thats needs to be dryed out usually takes on low around an hour and a half. 2) when you've got it reasonably dry, take acetone give it several applications . the reason acetone because it's water soluble, it will mix with the water and flash off relatively fast. it goes deeper than you would expect. than pack with paper towel leave over night . cover plastic and duct tape. 3) next day remove paper towel and apply two more applications of acetone . will flash of in around 10 minutes than back to the dryer for another hour or so . then proceed with consolident ,than more heat will dry depending on ambient temps in a few hours. than the filler of your choice, this works for me and so far no failures. There is something i do believe that good dutch coupled with wood filler , is better than just filler and packing that stuff in a hole than trying to shape, it does require more skill (depending on size and configuration) . but the ole addage practice , practice. there as many variations, as there are situations. .." Crea la mitad de lo que usted ve, y nada de lo que usted oye."
OK, here we go, even tho I was a lousy photographer on this job, there is something to see. I shot these photos in thoughts of doing an article on this subject, and low and behold, before I finished up, theat issue of FHB came out with somebody else writing about rot repairs - I think it was down south - with pretty much the same methods. That would have been 3-4 years ago now.BTW, I didn't realize that the acetone would suck the water free from the wood like that. I use it mostly for cleanup. I read someplae that the minwax wood hardener is a thinned down lacquer to penetrate and harden the fires. I don't know.This job was one where the old wood Andersen windows had not been always painted promptly. I replaced three whole units, a sash or two, and then there were another half dozen that only needed minor repairs. That saved her a bundle. a few of the trim glass keepers I milled out new ones but could have gotten them from Andersen too. Where the damage was really minor, I painted on the Minwax and let the wood drink it up. I dried the wood first with a heat gun set on high speed and low temp, probably about the same you get from a hair dryer, but the women I know would be unhappy with me for taking their hair accoutrements out on the job.
Where the fibres were damaged deper, I drilled a series of 3/16" holes and mixed up some Gitrot epoxy. I like it 'cause it has a very low viscosity and cures very slow. It is intended to be that way so it can travel or wick it's way along inside the wood fibres before it cures. They provide a mixing vial with a small nozzle and indicators for proper mix. Then after shaking to mix it up, I fill each little hole with it. By time I get 15-20 holes filled, the first one is empty cause the liquid mix has traveled, so I start back over again, untill the wood is ready to puke from drinking so much. this same stuff is pretty good for wood gutters too, BTW.Then I mix up the solid patching compound and butter it on when the consoilidant is hardened. One factor that influences my decision which product to use is cure rate. The minwax, on a surface is dry and ready in 20-30 miinutes. The Gitrot takes 24 hours in normal temps, but this job was thirty at night and maybe sixty in the day, so it wanted thiorty hours plus a little waving the heat gun around.
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nice repair paul, now that you mention that issue if memory serves it was in new orleans, and a pretty thorough article. IIRC there are issue like fungus and mold, rot on a much larger scale than were use to here in this zone. i'm sure your conditions are just as similar as the one in that issue.
an oldtimer told me in the day that they use to use ether for the rot .pour it in and see a bit of smoke , you could hear it crackilin' and crystallize the water on impact. like i said , the key with the acetone is drench it several time and let it flash off, than the heat . if you keep the moisture content below 12% than your safe any higher things get questionable.
i'm gonna try to dig that issue out this week it's got my interest tweaked. thanks for the pic's . thanks again , k.." Crea la mitad de lo que usted ve, y nada de lo que usted oye."
Pizza,I saw my first bondo filled wood "under the bubble" in 1988 during the remodel of Lincoln's House in Springfield. The forman confirmed that was "bondo" on the exterior window fluted trim toward the bottom where it had weathered. At that point I decided that if it was good enough for Abe Lincoln it was good enough for me. Like Piffin I have used the trick ever since and not only haven't had any trouble, but instead a lot of success.
i myself use abatron products , wood epox system two part (a&b)
both have the consistency of marshmallow fluff , and dry rock hard , no shrinkage. the stop gap solution w/ polyurethane glue is to scrub the glue foam at the peak of the foam and still tacky with denatured alcohol twice once to cut the foam and a second time with a diffrent toothbrush to clean the sheen mix (glue and alcohol mix ). this willl help alot with after clean up . i use this process on some of the frame and muntin components on window i build. so far so good.. good luck
..
Thanks for the tip.
Have you ever used the liquid type of wood epox? If so, does it ever feel dry? I experimented with some once. After 3 days it was still tacky so I used something else for the project.
Ben
b- if you mean liquid-wood , yes the technique with that is mix it pretty accurately 1:1 then let it sit or slake for 10 -15 minutes and let those molecule's get reved up youll feel it heat up a little. they get tiny bubbles mix it up again then sit for 5 then slather the stuff on depending on the ambient temp 24-36 hours your good to go . now one other thing the liquid wood is more of a wood consolident it reinforces, rebuilds, waterproffs the wood . it 's supposed to be used in conjunction with the wood epox . it's a system , i know the wood epox is rated resonably high in the shear and compression factors . but the two complement each other pretty well. i'm sure you can tell i'm a shill for the stuff .good luck........... hey steve...........
" Crea la mitad de lo que usted ve, y nada de lo que usted oye."
Third vote for the bondo. Like anything, good surface prep and cleaning is important.
It stinks though. My wife doesn't let me use it in our own house.
zak
"so it goes"
I'll third or forth the vote on the bondo, been using it successfully on both ex and int for years without problems.
Doug
I used Bondo recently, after hearing good things about it on BT. Was pleasantly surprised to even see it "officially" recommended for wood, right on the label of the can.
I have windowsills ( some w/ very suspect rotting wood ) over five yrs of age and one would be hardpressed to find where they had been remediedone step in the equation I've not noticed is much like caulking all surfaces should be primed first
when the surface for bonding is punky or weak,I use the Minwax wood hardener or another consolidant like GitRot first
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Bondo works great and is cheap. DynaPatch is another excellent product. Smooth consistencey, pulls like mud, good for skiming.
I use Bondo at times. Been using it for 30 years or so now. It's great with interiors. It's.....ok with the exterior. What Piffin said, you have to consolidate the edges or the entire reamed out rotted area. It's like a dentist filling a tooth. I usually use Minwax wood hardener before bondo. Sometimes I use epox a&b mixed with really fine wood dust, or the waterproof Titebond 3 mixed with wood dust, or poly glue the same. I prefer the West system over Bondo,it was specifically developed for wood, wooden boats and marie use, Bondo wasn't. Really the best answer is to replace rotten wood with new & better wood.
My experience Friday -
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Forrest