Best way to cut 1-3/4″ dentil trim? I’ve got a table saw, a router table, circ saw, miter saw, etc.
I’m trying to make some dentil trim to install on a porch. Cut out of a 1×6 (3/4″ thick, ripped to 4″ wide by 8′ and 16′ lengths). Dentil “teeth” would be 1-3/4″ long by 2″ wide with a 2″ gap between teeth.
I could set up the dado blade on the table saw, but this seems like the long way around the barn to dado out 1-3/4″x2″ chunks every two inches.
Seems like the router would be the best way to cut out these 1-3/4″x2″ squares, but I haven’t quite figured out how to set it up so that everything is uniform. You can set the table fence and a stop block to cut the ‘gum’ line, but that doesn’t help you with the straight sides of the teeth.
Anyone have a good solution? I’d hate to have to dado out all that material, or worse yet, glue short block-long block-short block to make the dentil.
jt8
“If you can’t sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It’s the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep.” — Dale Carnegie
Edited 6/29/2007 6:47 pm by JohnT8
Replies
John
Have you considered just adding blocks of wood for the dentil?
Some older homes didnt have a strip of wood with dados cut in it to create the dentil.
If I wanted to do it the way you do I would still use the table saw.
I use a wood insert plate in my saw which allows me to screw or nail a piece of wood for a stop to index off of for the dentil.
Doug
JT,
Have you looked at Phypon?
Over the years I've cut a lot of dentil, mostly out of 8/4 and 12/4. I used a dado head on a radial saw. Used index pins, 12" stock, then rip to the desired thickness. I have also used blocks as Doug U suggests.
Chuck S.live, work, build, ...better with wood
Have you considered just adding blocks of wood for the dentil?
So rip a 2-1/4" piece and mount 1-3/4"x2" blocks under it? My first impression was that is sounds like a lot more seams that way, but it also sounds like blocks are the consensus on the replies so far.
jt8
"If you can't sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It's the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep." -- Dale Carnegie
Edited 6/29/2007 11:10 pm by JohnT8
John
For something of the size your talking about I'd opt for the blocks. You'd be surprised how fast they install. There are a lot of seams but ........ Somewhere you have to commit the time, whether it be up front or at the back. But the ease of installing blocks, at least in this case, seams to be the better choice.
Someone else mentioned it to, you have the ability to cheat the blocks at the end or return to make it all come out "perfect" When I make dentil in long strips I spend a lot of time, and quite a few seams, to get that "perfect" look at ends and returns.
If you do opt for long strips you can still cheat the dentil. I will cut joints at the block, sometimes taking a little off the block, sometimes taking a little off the space, whatever it takes to get it to finish out right. By "right" I mean so that blocks end on corners with the proper look. No one will pick up that the space between blocks is 1/16" off but they will notice a 1/2 block matted up with a full block on a return.
Is this for your project house? I know that you posted some preliminary drawings of the new entrance that you were thinking about. If so and I'm not sure I remember correctly but dentil on the rake is plumb, not perpendicular to the rake.
Doug
Edited 6/30/2007 12:00 pm ET by DougU
Is this for your project house? I know that you posted some preliminary drawings of the new entrance that you were thinking about. If so and I'm not sure I remember correctly but dentil on the rake is plumb, not perpendicular to the rake.
Yes, it is for the project house. The pic I posted earlier was probably the Franken-porch pic. I copy-pasted a different house's porch onto my house. While it gave me a good idea of what the porch would look like on my house, I didn't care for that dentil up the rake. The actual trim we're shooting for is closer to an old FHB issue I've got (left it at the p house, so can't tell you the issue number). They had an article on a Greek revival entryway. Here is a cropped pic of the magazine pic:
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The dentil is only used horizontally, not up the rakes. I think the layered trim up the rakes looks much better than dentil.
Mine will be a scaled back version (ie simplified). Probably just go with blocks on the dentil, so that solves that issue. We had matched the house's 5-in12 pitch when the porch was created, and I almost wish we'd pushed it up a couple to make a sharper roof, but anyway here is what it currently looks like. The basic structure is there, but the decorative trim is yet to be installed:
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About the only thing left is to figure out what to do with the field area. In the magazine they had a window in there, but I really don't want a window. I might just slap a couple coats of Sherwin on top of the primer and call it good enough. Previously I'd been thinking of getting some stucco textured fiber cement siding (4x8 sheets I think), but that is a special order and I'd have to figure out what to do with the seams.
jt8
"If you can't sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It's the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep." -- Dale Carnegie
Edited 7/1/2007 1:55 am by JohnT8
John
A simple plinth and capital on those columns would also dress the place up a tad. You don't have to go all out to get the same effect.
A flat at the top with crown underneath it, a small piece of trim(could be a simple 1/2 round over) about two inches below the crown and a simple wrap around the bottom to anchor it.
Otherwise the place is looking good. Did you widen the sidewalk...... I know that you mentioned that at one time?
Doug
Edited 7/1/2007 11:23 am ET by DougU
A flat at the top with crown underneath it
That might work better than the model porch's post top. And I keep thinking I can work an ogee edge in SOMEWHERE. Maybe use a 2x for the base..ogee the top edge and then an inch or two below that, cut a groove. Possibly round over the groove top edge.
The carp who helped me build the porch (actually, I helped him) will probably end up doing the trim. He is supposed to replace the front door Monday and stick a new garage door in Monday or Tuesday, but he is a good guy and I'm sure I could get him to come back and work on the porch trim. Just need to tell him what I want to see.
Did you widen the sidewalk......
I didn't end up widening the sidewalk. Seemed like I was trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I'd rather let it go for now and possibly down the road just put a whole new sidewalk in. Or just drop it all together and use that $ to fix some of the landscaping woes.jt8
"If you can't sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It's the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep." -- Dale Carnegie
http://www.pacificcolumns.com/columns-endura-square-stone-nontapered-specs.php
Look at the second column.
Yeah, that's pretty close to what I'd like to see. I guess we could have made the posts a little thicker, but oh well. Here is a crop from the original model porch.
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jt8
"If you can't sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It's the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep." -- Dale Carnegie
Edited 7/2/2007 12:52 am by JohnT8
I think you do want to keep it simple, but elegant. If you get too fancy it will be like putting lipstick on a bulldog.
I would do the dentil that large with separate blocks.For the field, I would consider a raised relief profile of a broken pediment and tone the paint to shadow it to appear deeper and raise it more.
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http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/virginia/charlescity/shirley/porchdet2.jpghttp://thetinshop.biz/images/Raeford_Church_metal_cornice/4-Completed_Job/09_close-up_of_pediment_and_gable.JPGHere are a couople pediments for inspiration from google. I have a photo in the other PC I can retrieve later of the relief I am referring to.
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For the field, I would consider a raised relief profile of a broken pediment and tone the paint to shadow it to appear deeper and raise it more.
I'm not following you. I think of a 'broken pediment' as something like:
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If I carry the layered trim up the rakes similar to the FHB pic, what does that leave me to put in the center of the field (since I'm not using a window)? Currently that is just 1/2" roof sheathing with primer and Sherwin on it, but I really wasn't planning on it to be the finished surface (painted simply for moisture protection).
A few days ago before it got the Sherwin I saw the sun creating a shadow on it, I considered painting a similar design on it with two shades of white (not offset like the shadow is). Is this what you mean by painting it to create a shadow?
But I'm thinking I would need to come up with a better surface than 1/2" sheathing to paint.
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jt8
"If you can't sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It's the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep." -- Dale Carnegie
Edited 7/2/2007 1:05 am by JohnT8
That is a broken pediment, yes. Now take away the acorn bulb in the center and trace the outline of just the center triangular pediment ( technically the pediment is the whole show, but the word is also used for specifically just the flat triangle space you have on your gable end as it is surrounded by the trim. That is what I am referring to when I say pediment) once you trace that broken pediment shape, downsize it to 3/4 of what yours is - maybe 2/3. Then make an overlay piece from something like MDO cut to that shape and paint it an off white to amplify the difference between it and the background. better yet, paint the background off white and paint this raised relief the pure white to make it pop out.I have attached a photo where I did this and was rewarded with compliments for it. You add some intrest to that boring flat facade without spending a lot to add sculptured bas-relief supreme court justices or demi-gods like the older classical places do with that space.
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OK, let me see if I'm any further along the comprehending trail.
I assume we're focused on this:
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(gotta a closer shot? or just a bigger version of the pic?)
So you're leaving several inches between the rake trim and the raised center? Assuming the dark grey lines on the rakes are layered trim and the off-white in the center is what... 3/4" MDO raised panel? It sketches out like this:
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And kinda looks like you trimmed around the edges of the raised center panel?
Or are you tying the layered rake trim directly in to the raised portion in the middle? jt8
"If you can't sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It's the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep." -- Dale Carnegie
you have the general idea there to run with. TRhe rake trim is totally separate and the raised relief piece is aplied either before or after the trim. It is just flat stock on flat stock.1/2" MDO would work to
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1/2" MDO would work to
The local lumberyard carries it, so I will probably get one of those $36 sheets and see if that is big enough.
Next question: On the MDO triangle, would you clip the corners (left-right) or leave them pointed?
View Imagejt8
"If you can't sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It's the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep." -- Dale Carnegie
I would do a layout in pencil or chalk line t see how it looks, but probably point on this overlay. With abut a 2" white space around it, there would be no bird box squared tips
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Here is another example to dress it up. ;-)http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ibiblio.org/ahkitj/nikster/gallery/d/27690-2/parthenon.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ibiblio.org/ahkitj/nikster/gallery/v/kari-features/parthenon.jpg.html&h=480&w=640&sz=61&tbnid=2D5ZXsOgMUpwiM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dparthenon%26um%3D1&start=1&sa=X&oi=images&ct=image&cd=1
Having the rip at the top be thicker then the tooth eliminates the appearance of having a seam.
It also gives it more of a feeling of being a crown molding...buic
Have you considered just adding blocks of wood for the dentil?
On the dentil, the 'add blocks' suggestion won out. I ended up making the teeth beefier than 1-3/4"x2".
Probably not the right way or quickest way, but I manufactured all the parts and pre-painted two coats of Kilz and 1-2 coats of Sherwin. Most of the pieces were painted all the way around.
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The top strip and teeth fasteners all went in from the back. I popped a couple galv finish nails in to hold each tooth, and then flipped the assembly over and added 2" exterior screws.
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The two side assemblies.
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I used 2" & 3" screws to mount the units (4 total). Then filled the screwholes, sanded and painted. Sun was in my face when I took these shots, so these two pics are a bit washed out.
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jt8
"If you can't sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It's the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep." -- Dale Carnegie
Edited 7/16/2007 1:09 am by JohnT8
excellent..
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WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Atta boy John, looks good.
It really adds a lot to the money side of the house.
Doug
Looks real good. Assembling in sections really worked well.Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Nice finishing touch, looks good. The size is just right for what you have...buic
Your stock is 4" and the tooth is 1 3/4" tall. That makes the continuous top half 2 1/4" wide.
What about installing a 2 1/4" wide rip first. Then install the teeth as individual blocks underneath. Blocks could be 3/4" or 5/8" thick. I like the look of a step that 5/8" would give you.
It's much easier to cut nice crisp blocks, and there's no waste.
You can also cheat your spacing by 1/16' ths and have full blocks work out in all the corners.
I did the same thing in a media room a few years ago and everyone was happy with the final result...buic
Because of the way the grain is running and the size of the stock & teeth, doing it out of one piece of stock would result in a weak piece of molding where the teeth meet the main body of the wood.
Definitely do blocks, and recess them a bit like somebody suggested to give it relief detail and a shadow line.