I’m curious as to how you all would handle this situation. I recently had some work done. All work was done very professionally and things were fine until the bill arrived. I almost had a heart attack when the bill was 2.5 times what the written estimate was. Same work scope, minor change in square footage (30 sq ft on a 1300sq ft job).
I called to question the bill and it turned out they had made a typo on the estimate. this was the final portion of a much larger job, all estimated at one time. had the estimate been correct in the first place I would have hired someone else as I had other bids in the same range as theirs. This typo put them 2 grand higher than everyone else.
How would you all handle this.
I paid the bill (slightly discounted) but this whole thing just sits wrong with me. I guess I’m just pretty pissed that their eff up cost me nearly 2k.
Tom
Douglasville, GA
Replies
A very delicate situation to be sure. However my understanding is that a 'good' business honors what it puts into writing. Yes, they can ask you politely to 'overlook' _their_ error and pay what in fact they meant to quote, but again, contracts are in writing for this very reason (even estimates). That's my couple coppers worth...
they stated what they were gonna charge..
have them honor it..
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Was it an 'estimate' or was there an actual fixed-price contract that you signed and returned to them? If not the latter, then caveat emptor. If the latter, then they should honor the agreement, unless you agree with them that they made a catastrophic error in their written docs... in which case maybe you play nice and pay in accordance with what was received.
Tom, did you think something might have been wrong if their estimate was so much lower than the others? I may not be understanding your math correctly. If the two other contractors gave an estimate of $100,000, for instance, and the actual price you paid the contractor that did the work was $2000 more than those estimates, and that ended up being 2.5 times the estimate, the original estimate would have been $40,800. I would think that may have been a reason to ask some questions. Did this come up in your discussions with the contractor? Was the only mention of cost that one figure on the estimate sheet. It just seems odd that further discussion, signed agreements or contracts didn't pick up on a major error.
It sounds like when all was said and done, you got a good job at a price that was reasonably competitive. You don't know if you would have had the same level of service from the other contractors. You may not know what the extras may have added to the others price. I have known contractors that would bid low and then jack up the price with extras, unforseen circumstances or parts left off the bid. If this was your situation, you may be in a difficult position since you paid the bill.
I don't know if you have any recourse. I imagine the contractor isn't going to refund your check unless a judge tells him to. Whether it's worth your time, to see if you have a legal avenue open, is up to you. This may have been an honest mistake that both of you share some responsibility for. I think you may have done the right/fair thing, man to man. You're probably a little mad at yourself as much as anything. No sense stressing over what has past. You did take a little discount, does it need to go farther?
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Thats a BIG type error!! I would have needed a major explaining of that one!! Estimate should be within 10%, if not, part way into the job when a hidden problem or changes are required, then pricing needs taking over.
Since you already paid, your options are limited. And it would be nice to have a few more details. How much was the original bid, how much was the increase, what were the other bids?
If he had given you a firm price for the work, I think you would have been justified in paying just that price. But as noted by someone else, if it was an estimate then he should have advised you of the increase before doing the work, and if you agreeed then you should pay.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
This thread is reminding me of one job I had similar, but it was not a typo. I had been hired to convert an upper floor space in a post and beam house to a bedroom with private bath and skyulight over. I made an estimate of about 17K but warned them that I might go higher because running electrical and plumbing can get pretty time consuming in a P&B. they were fine with that and with my rate.2/3 of the way thru the job, the husband started telling me "While you are here..." So I built in a desk in his office room, cleaned and water proffed the garage floor, repaired a failing Pella door, designed and built a nice classic entablature with hidden rain gutter at the main entry, and a few other things, includung moving all the furniture out of my designated work space, which they had promised to do themselves.Final bill was 37K
Wife wanted to know how and why. I walked her through all his added items and she wrote the check.
It was my first adventure with a household where SHE handles all the money and HE does the extras. Usually the wife is going for the extras and then the hubby wants to know why so high after the final bill is in.
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i might have handled it differently from both ends.
if i were the contractor, i might have approached the customer after the realization of the error and sat down with them to discuss the problem to negotiate a resolution. but i would have been willing to accept payment based on my original quote.
if i were you, i probably would have suggested paying what the others quoted.
unless i was thrilled with the job.
carpenter in transition
Sorry for the delay in responding guys. Work was busy his week starting with an emergency trip to denver for 30 hours or so.
I'll give some more dtails about how the situation unfolded. I'm building a home in NH and this particular sub was doing the foundation. i had gotten three estimates for the foundation and slab. All three were about 10k (+ or - $500) I had good references for all three. The scope and detail of the job was the same for all. The only difference in the estimates was that this one had broken the estimate down further than the others and seperated the slab price from the foundation walls. Other prices were for the whole job.
Foundation was poured and I paid for that, no problems. Price was higher than original estimate due to site conditions that were pretty unfavorable due to weather and flooding. Understandable.
Several months pass til we are ready for the slab. This was planned. Slab is poured, plus an additional 3x5 pad for propane tamks to sit on. That was the only change in scope. Pretty minor.
I received the bill for ~3200. Original estimate was for ~1300. i called to question the bill and was told that they were on vacation and would get back to me about it when they returned. A week later I receive a call stating that the error was on the original estimate. The owners wife had entered the slab square footage in the price column by mistake. So sorry, you still owe us the whole bill. They offered to give a cash discount to help some and they siad they felt terrible about it.
I'm not one to try to cheat anyone out of money. I build furniture and cabinets for people from time to time and have screwed up on my estimates a couple of time and I always eat the difference. Had the estimate included the additional 2k in the first place I would have gone with another foundation crew as they all had excellent reputaitons.
Would I be out of line sending them a letter stating that I found the way they handled the situation unprofessional and that there was no way I could recommend them to anyone even though the work was high quality?
I suppose I am partially mad at myself for agreeing to pay the cash price in the end and not sticking to my guns a bit more.
Of course it didn't help the situation any when I think back to the day the owner came out to look at the slab to make sure evrything was ready he commented that he should have padded his estimate a bit after seeing all the extras I have done to the house. when he showed up to pick up payment it didn't help that he was driving a brand new 300z either.Tom
Douglasville, GA
So... he'd be worth the money if he was driving s sh!tty old pickup? Lots of folks that do construction have kids that need shoes and college tuition, have medical insurance, own homes and rental property, drive nice cars, go to Hawaii for vacation, have 50" TVs, etc. Our customers pay for that stuff.
From your original description it sounded like your guy's final price was in line with what others would have charged. Are you saying that you could have gotten the slab for $1300 from the other bidders?
No I'm saying the price was 2k higher than the other estimates. All the estimates included the slab and foundation, his was the only one that broke those numbers down. Apparantly the others ould have charged less (percentage wise) for the foundation. His foundation price was what was quoted, about 9k. Add the final slab price and we are over 12k while the other quotes for the whole job were ~10k including the slab.
I don't begrudge the guy buying a nice things and earning a good living. I do think it should be done honestly and ethically and I don't think those criteria were met. They admitted the error was theirs. In my busines dealings, if I make an error I will usually eat it. Tom
Douglasville, GA
It sounds like you are dealing with "estimates" rather than fixed-price contracts. Since you're at the foundation stage and have a house to finish, I would suggest you switch to hiring people on a fixed price basis. They can estimate whatever they want--what YOU want is a written, binding contract for a specified amount with a detailed scope of work. Everything that's included is listed, along with exclusions, assumptions, your responsibilities, work by others, etc. That way you sign a contract with them and then write a check for that amount, no surprises.
That being the case there is no telling whether or not the other concrete subs would have come in as "estimated" or whether they would have billed for more (or less). It's all water under the bridge.
For what it's worth, around here, a slab for $1300 would be pretty small unless ALL I was doing was the placement and finishing. As soon as I have to do subgrade, rebar, insulation, forms, etc., then suddenly your $1300 is not nearly enough. How big is the slab and what parts did they do?
House a mostly finished and I am doing most of the work myself. Haven't had issues withany of the other trades. Granted there is no gurantee that the other estimates would have come in the same but there is no reason not to beleive them either. The only thing they had to do was pour the slab. I formed the extra pad, installed the 2" eps foam and installed the radiant tubing.
Fiber mash in the concrete and xxx feet of control joints. Same specs to each company that gave a quote.
I'm not saying that the job shouldn't have cost 3k. What I'm saying is based on their innaccurate estimate I could likely have hired a contrctor who would have done the foundation for 7500 and the slab for 2500. I was snookered into hiring the highest bidder by a typo on their original paperwork. I have no reason to beleive the other estimates would be wrong as they all had excellent reps. Tom
Douglasville, GA
I thin you should hold them to the original agreed price. Since all three proposals were about the same, it's not like you took advantage of them quoting a much lower price due to a typo.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I can't follow all the numbers, but it sounds like the issue is not that you think you would have spent significantly less if the error had not been made, but simply that you would have used another contractor if the mistake had not been made. It also sounds like you believe the mistake was an honest error (i.e. they did not put in the wrong number to trick you into hiring them).
If these are the facts, then I think your first instinct to just pay the bill and get on with your life were correct. I think the guys that say hold them to the erroneous estimate are completely wrong. In my mind, that's just taking advantage of the type of mistake everybody makes occassionally, and does not follow the rule of treating others as you'd want to be treated. Holding them to the estimate of the guy you would have hired would be defensible ethically, but you don't seem to be sure that would be a lot cheaper.
just out of curiousity....
is your slab 1300 sq.ft. ?
carpenter in transition
Yes approximately.Tom
Douglasville, GA
As others have said you should learn the difference between a contract and an estimate.After someone presents an estimate to you you should incorporate your specs and their estimate into a contract. And both sign.
If it were my company doing the job - I wouldn't think twice about eating the estimate mistake. After all, it is teh builders mistake - not yours. Why should you be responsible for paying it?
...you should have posted the topic here before agreeing to pay!
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...you should have posted the topic here before agreeing to pay!
As far as the 13th post , I agree .
I would not have paid a dime over the estimate price unless it was an extra. It would have gladly gone to small claims court for the difference . Hows he supposed to know they made a mistake ? Further more it seems like something for the better business bureau.
So all I gotta do is go out and turn in a bunch of cheap bids and then say after its over , by the way , you owe me double that because of an error I made . Yea right . Its spelled , " shyster " .
Tim
i recently made a similar error and totally forgot the labor on one portion of the job. about 1,000 bucks. i told my customer this after he paid my final bill and he agreed yes i forgot that. as he pondered what he should do, i told him all i ask in return is he give me a good reference if the opportunity arises. it arose a week later and i got a 50k job off of his reference. so its usually best just to keep a customer happy and go on to the next one in my opinion.
To me the situation should be viewed with respect to how the mistake was found and corrected and the % error by the contractor rather than comparing estimates (that seems to keep coming up).
Obviously if there is a $2k difference on a $100k job versus a $1.3k job it will be received differently by the customer. If my price is going to deviate that far from an estimate (% - wise) whether I gave it verbally or written I would let the client know about it before sending the bill without an explanation. If I made a mistake like this (and I have to some degree - forgot to add one rooms measurement to crown moulding estimate for a house) I would first see if my costs were covered. If not, I would have called to discuss it and tried to cover material & labor costs for employees involved in the job. I would have forfeited any profit for this part of the job, rather than try to slam it through - just so I wouldn’t be remembered the way this guy will be. IMO theirs was a very poor way to handle it and I would not be giving out any references for them if I was the client.
I got the impression that you are reasonable (but I misread people all the time!) since you said previous work came in higher than expected and you paid in full understanding the reason for the difference due to the elements. I think you should have made a phone call prior to paying calmly explaining your side w.r.t. the other bid amounts and tried to compromise on the amount owed, but its too late now to get your money back.
There was a very good suggestion earlier about using signed fixed price contracts with your future subs to avoid this kind of mistake.
To paraphrase someone smarter than me from somewhere on this board ……an education cost money whether you go to college or life experience school…………. Don't get too hung up on the $2k and learn from the mistakes, both his and yours for paying without a call.
BTW, one question…..
“Of course it didn't help the situation any when I think back to the day the owner came out to look at the slab to make sure evrything was ready he commented that he should have padded his estimate a bit after seeing all the extras I have done to the house.â€
Did he say this because he was going to add extras also or because he thought he had a fish on the line and was going to reel him in?
The comment originated from him after looking at the windows I had used to screen in the proch, the red cedar shigles covering the entire exterior, the ventilation system, radiant floor heat on all floors, SIP's, etc...
He was implying that if i could afford to put all that into the house, maybe he should have bid the job a bit higher.
I'm not wealthy. I'm a blue collar worker that has been scrimping an saving forever to build this house. Granted it is a second home on a lake in NH and those don't come cheap. I got a hell of a deal on the lot since we knew the owners for years and we were able to build this year only because my father in law passed and left us a little money. We wanted to use it on something that our children and extended family can enjoy for years in his memory. The amount we received from him was maybe 1/4 of what will be invested here but it made the difference in going forward or not.
I've learned some expensive lessons in the past but I prefer to learn them from my own mistakes rather than those of others.
I will likely be sending a letter to them explaining my dissatisfaction with the way the situation was handled. I don't expect any adjustment in my bill but I do beleive they should know how I feel about the situation and that they were awarded the job only because their price was incorrectly stated. I will mention that they will not be getting any referrals from me. They are free to handle it howver they wish. At least my position will be clear and maybe they will handle the situation differently with future clients. Tom
Douglasville, GA
Maybe I missed in the previuos posts but was the 2.5x cost overrun including the costs incurred from weather problems/site access or was it the total amount of their calcualtion error? If you're including the site access costs, don't you think the other companies would have had the same addl costs?
The cost overrun had nothing to do with site conditions, that was during the foundation wall prtion. I will add tht the walls cost exactly what the estimate said with the additional spelled out.
He said that the price he gave me for the slab was exactly what he estimated, plus a little for the extra 3x5 pad, but his wife screwed up my estimate when typing it up and put the squre footage rather than the correct price.
I do beleive it was an honest mistake on their part. I also now beleive that their overall rates are higher than two of their competitors. I would have known that had the original estimate been correct. I could have proceeded with either of the other contractors at a fixed price that was ~2K lower than this estimate. All three estimates had verbage in them about site/winter condition and I was prepred for that. While this work was done on an "estimate" it was treated as a fixed price up until this dispute arose.
I should have had a fixed price contract. Lesson learned. This is a pretty rural area and there are many people here that still do handshake deals, many will only work t&m. Each one is different and overall I have had few problems. This one just really sits wrong with me. Tom
Douglasville, GA
Did the slab in question have radiant floor heat? Was this in the specs? Could this be the extras he was referring to when talking about padding the bill?
I know you said you ran the tubing, but someone had to work around it if it was in the pour.
Radiant floor was spec'd from th beginning and is why the specs caller for fiber mesh rather than welded wire.Tom
Douglasville, GA
I think you could have negotiated some part of that difference just by showing him the other estimates you collected. thats water over the dam since he's been paid already.
If you believe it was an honest mistake then you'll sleep easier knowing you did the right thing. a lot of people would tell him to hit the bricks
its always nice to have some good carma in the bank. good luck with your new house
It is beyond me how you could enter into an agreement for roughly 10k without a contract.
With that being said, I would have held the contractor to his estimate, especially when considering that his estimate was in line with the other estimates.
As a business owner, I would have never expected the customer to pay for my mistake in this regard and I would have felt like a scam artist had I tried to collect for it.
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein
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I agree with the way you handled the situation as well as your letter. If I made a mistake like that, and I have, I would have eaten the cost. It was probably an honest mistake but his previous comments didnt help his case. A contract and an estimate are two different things and I am sure you know that based on your description of the overages due to site conditions and weather you described on the first part of the job. Jobs of this size are often done with nothing more than a handshake here. I think you did the right thing. I would tell him that any recommendation from you will be that his work is fine but his business practices are questionable.
My wife asked for the carpet throughout the house to be replaced. I asked for three quotes same brand, model and color with installation. Standard price for the carpet was $4.60 per square foot. One quote--not estimate, but quote--came in at what was equivalent to $1.89 per square foot. Rather than play the game with the carpet store, I simply asked if they would like to take another look at what they had quoted. Big apology an hour later and a new quote that was $2,000 more than the next lowest quote.
Since I knew something was wrong, I felt it was the ethical thing to do to bring it to their attention. They did not get my business, not only because of their price, but because of the perceived incompetence.
That wass honorable and wise to do. When their quote came in at approx the same price as the rest, why would I question whether it was correct or not? It was only after all the work was done that the mistake came to light.
Tom
Douglasville, GA
Edited 8/16/2006 6:44 pm ET by TomW