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Andrew,
Assuming you don’t have very much time, I’ll tell you what works for me, and would be available anywhere locally.
If the plaster is sound, use ITW Red Head poly-set anchors. I use six on large cabinets and four on smaller cabinets. Attach cabinets together set on cabinet jacks or something similar. Drill pilot holes through to mark for anchors. Take down cabinets and install anchors, then reinstall cabinets.
If the plaster has gone bad or seems weak, I use ITW Epcon epoxy anchoring system for block or drop in or wedge anchors for concrete. Attach rod to back wall to attach to your 1x. Attach rod and unistrut to the ceiling to hold the back wall’s rod up.
This will work better if cabinets backs are recessed because then your 1x can sit flush to the wall. If not, you need to decide if end panels and/or molding will cover the gaps in the bottoms and sides effectively.
Final word, rail and hanger system or european system for top cabinets. You’d still have to use some type of poly anchor to hold rail up. If the backs of the cabinets are flush, then spacers will be needed on the bottom of the cabinets. Same problem with end panels or moldings to cover bottom or side gaps.
Good Luck!
Paul
P.S. Polyset anchors in #6 have 110 lbs shear rating in 1/2″ drywall. I use #10 which are rated 145 lbs 1/2″ drywall, 310 lbs hollow block, and 450 lbs for concrete.
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I like the idea of U-bolts or, more simply, the threaded rod bent into a "J". One downside, of course is that you will have to cut off the threaded portion protruding through your cabinet backs....not a terribly sightly installation. A church that I do a lot of regular remodeling on is built with this construction and, because of the diamond lath attached to the C studs it has incredible strength. I would consider good big toggles through (I'm assuming you've got) top and bottom cleats in the cabinet backs. Once they are up and cinched tight the lath and plaster will support a lot of weight.
Good luck
-Ben
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I believe that what this stuff is/was called -- vertical C-shaped metal bars about 1/2" across by 1" deep, roughly 19" o.c., used to support plaster lath in a cinder block condo building 35 years old. I would like to fasten cabinets to it. The old cabinets were screwed to horizontal 1x4's strapped with rebar-type wire to the iron and plastered in. I can't reuse them because the new cabinets are taller -- how should I do it? Any old timers, or old-time remodelers here?
Really would prefer not to cut a channel in the plaster for a new 1x....
*Hi Andrew,Who you calling old :=)They are still called "C" channels and are still in common use todate.What you "should" consider is marking out your layout for the cabinets that you want to suspend to your ceiling first.Next you carefully open up the ceiling (inside the layout marks) to allow access to the upper deck or joists system.Then you attach hangers or other rigid type mechanical connections to safely carry the weight of your cabinets, even in the unlikely event of a tremor or two.With the cabinets in place, it will cover the open area.Todays code does not even allow electrical fluorescent fixtures to be attached without being mechanically fastened to the deck as a safety measure.Gabe
*I'm glad my description made sense.Now, the old cabinets were not suspended, just screwed to the furring in the wall. The new ones are taller and can be hooked to the ceiling if needed. Is the wall not sufficient? And what shall I use as hangers -- the ones from the dry cleaner in my closet?My thought was to drill holes around the c-channels and attach U-bolts, then attach the cabinets to these. Or, of course, let a furring strip in at the appropriate height. Or, run a strip of steel fastened to the c-channel across the top of the cabinets, screwing the cabinets to the steel. I was skeptical of trying to put a screw into the channel itself, the cross-section being so small.I think we're in seismic zone 0 or 1.
*Sorry Andrew,I thought you wanted to attach to the ceiling.The "C" channels should not be drilled or cut in any way, they were never designed for that.As long as the load is bearing on the floor and your only using the wall to stabilize the cabinet, toggles would work fine. If you think that there will be lateral strain, you should still consider attaching to the structure behind the plaster lath and "C" channels. I don't know if you have studs or masonry behind them, but it is a thought.Failing all that, a short piece of threaded rod with one end bent into the form of a hook would probably be easier for you to use against a blind wall.Gabe
*You might want to go to a cabinetmaking supplies distributor, look at the german and Austrian hardware that is available for hanging cabs in these situations. Depends how your cabs are built, but if they are 32 mm boxes, chances are there is off the shelf hardware that can hang them, plus give you all the adjustments you need. Systems are available that work from the ceiling, or the wall.
*Hi Andrew,Interesting post.If I read this right you have black iron (lathers channels) that are running vertically against CMU's and were mudded in and now you want to hang new cabinets from them. Is there any space at all between the black iron and the CMU's? I have never used black iron in a vertical application before but if there is at least an 1/8th" clearance Caddy makes a clip that fastens hat channel directly to black iron. I'm just not sure about the slippage factor here, they are made to hang horizontally. Why not just repeat the system that worked before and tie wire some new 1 x 4's back on? Richard Max
*Thank you! When I asked a local installer about the problem, he just groaned and said every situation was unique. I'll call around for this type of hardware -- does it have a name?
*You got the picture. I would let in the 1x4, but you see the original guys had the advantage of an open wall to tie up the 1x. The plaster came last and is the only thing really limiting slippage ... the wires for that matter are pretty weak and brittle, I pulled one of the 1x's out easily. To retrofit would be messy. If I fasten something on the surface of the plaster, I'll have to fur the whole thing of cabinets out and cover the gaps with moldings...Hat channel -- inside the wall? -- sounds like a good idea; I'm also thinking of slipping 2-3' pieces of 3/4" plywood back there. There is about a foot of open space between the black iron and the concrete block wall. They used the space for kitchen ventilation ducts and randomly strung BX. I'm surprised they were still using real plaster in the 60's.Thanks for the comments guys.
*You are looking for the guys that sell Euro hinges and hardware to cabinetmakers; usually strictly wholesale, to the trade. Hafele is one company; my catalogue is in the truck right now though. Blum, Hettich, whoever distibutes those will have some sort of track type suspension fitting available; shouldn't be hard to get that onto your block wall, mount your cabs on the track.
*Andrew:If you do cabinet work, you should get an account with a company called Behr. Their catalog has everything you could want. I don't have the catalog here to give phone# but will try to get it to you later.Some of the other guys may have it.
*Andrew, Assuming you don't have very much time, I'll tell you what works for me, and would be available anywhere locally. If the plaster is sound, use ITW Red Head poly-set anchors. I use six on large cabinets and four on smaller cabinets. Attach cabinets together set on cabinet jacks or something similar. Drill pilot holes through to mark for anchors. Take down cabinets and install anchors, then reinstall cabinets. If the plaster has gone bad or seems weak, I use ITW Epcon epoxy anchoring system for block or drop in or wedge anchors for concrete. Attach rod to back wall to attach to your 1x. Attach rod and unistrut to the ceiling to hold the back wall's rod up. This will work better if cabinets backs are recessed because then your 1x can sit flush to the wall. If not, you need to decide if end panels and/or molding will cover the gaps in the bottoms and sides effectively. Final word, rail and hanger system or european system for top cabinets. You'd still have to use some type of poly anchor to hold rail up. If the backs of the cabinets are flush, then spacers will be needed on the bottom of the cabinets. Same problem with end panels or moldings to cover bottom or side gaps.Good Luck!PaulP.S. Polyset anchors in #6 have 110 lbs shear rating in 1/2" drywall. I use #10 which are rated 145 lbs 1/2" drywall, 310 lbs hollow block, and 450 lbs for concrete.
*Thanks! I'm not impressed with the plaster -- it is inadequately supported, thin, flexes and cracks easily, etc. When the cabs arrive, I'll probably be using a combination of techniques. Anchors, screws, bolts, prayers...