Still working on our garage/shop, and yet another question for those who know more than me.
I’m trying to contain noise of compressor and dust collector in a separate room. In a effort to get it right, I was talking to a sound mitigation guy about how best to do this without going crazy on the budget.
I explained to him that it surprises me how noise telegraphs through the SIP walls. They’ve actually done testing in SIPs and I’m told it’s because there’s no decoupling between layers…a tight sandwich.
One of the things he suggested was 2×2 framework attached to the OSB and cavities filled with fglass would do some good without breaking the bank. I asked if cels would have same effect…yes, maybe better than glass.
And finally my question 😉 I’m blowing cels in other areas. I’ve done attics and 2×4 walls but never something as shallow as 2×2. We’re talking 10′ walls. Would I be better just to put glass batts in or can I get that wall blown?
PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it’s not okay, it’s not the end.
Replies
we blow 1.5" areas all the time ( over window headers ... some partition junctions )
we use Insulweb mesh ( see the Money Wall thread ) so we can blow those areas easily
if you're trying to blow behind gypsum board it's harder to get good packing
>( see the Money Wall thread )
Now we see the REAL reason you promote this so much ;)
yeah, well ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks for the reply, Mike. Your advice is appreciated....more than you might guess! I can attribute probably a dozen things I've incorporated into this building as a direct result of your tutorial pic threads.
I can go back and look, but feeling lazy. Would you blow a wall like this from top and bottom or could a good fill be had top only?PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
IIRC, SIPs are good at dampening air noises, but not direct contact noises. So someone might say they can't hear their neighbor mowing, but can hear the rain hitting the house.
I know 1.5" spaces fill up fast, so you'll probably want a flow restrictor in place on the blower, but otherwise the cell should provide dampening of noise.
jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones."
-- Somerset Maugham
SIPs are good at dampening air noises, but not direct contact noises
That would be my take. Learning some about acoustics, I hope to apply it in remodeling our house. Two layers of 5/8 sheetrock with viscoelastic between will top the 2x2 fur out.
I'm keen on trying insulmesh. Because of the low slope on this hipped roof, it'll be hard to get good blow access at the walls once the once rock is up. I'm toying with using Insulweb around the perimeter, blowing that, and then rocking and blowing the remaining space...any comment?PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
blowing thru insul mesh is so easy you won't want to blow behind drywall
anytime we can set up with insulmesh that's what we do
i'd only blow drywall if that was my last resortMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
As I recall, you had a preferance for the web you use...is this the stuff?
http://store.contractor-pro.com/insulweb-10-x-375-folded-1-rlctn-p-2265.html
And white glue, right?PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
The mesh is very handy for spotting voids. Sometimes cellulose blows a bit funny. You think you're blowing down a stud bay and it turns out you're blowing it sideways into the next bay (or some such). With the mesh you can see that. If it was drywall, you wouldn't be able to.
You might be better off just getting it from the manufacturer directly. According to my old price list, a 10'x375' roll is $130 plus s/h. IIRC, my 8' roll was around $120 with s/h. They can UPS 4' & 8' rolls. Do you need the 10' roll? I wonder if you could get by with multiple passes with a shorter roll? Maybe Mike could comment on that technique.
This is the company that makes it:
http://www.regalind.com/
Steve at Regal has always been very helpful and prompt in answering my questions:
[email protected]
And white glue, right?
I get the gallon jug of Elmers white at Menards for about $10-11.
jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones." -- Somerset Maugham
Edited 2/5/2008 11:36 am by JohnT8
Edited 2/5/2008 1:38 pm by JohnT8
Yellow glue should be fine too, no? I just bought a gallon of Titebond II to run some mesh because I wanted to be able to use the leftover for my carpentry work, where I like titebond II.The stuff I get from Regal looks just like plain old yellow glue to me.Steve
You'd probably have to get Mike's attention on that one. All I've used is white Elmers. But I don't see why Titebond wouldn't work. You could test it on a scrap.
jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones." -- Somerset Maugham
Edited 2/5/2008 1:41 pm by JohnT8
Bam! Fired an email off to Steve at Regal, and here is the current price list and the installation sheet. Attached.jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones." -- Somerset Maugham
Thanks T8, that's looking like a lot better deal. I owe ya lunch, and can afford it on what I'm saving. Better take me up on it soon, though, this project seems to eat money in mighty big bites!PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
First off, there is bucketloads of info on the web, just google it but you have to sort thru the chaff to come up with your answer. Now some basics.... mass is what stops airborne sound, not fluffy stuff like FG. Of course airborne is not the only way sound travels. Sound also travels via the structure and it travels very well this way.
For my money, whats left of it, I would concentrate on isolating the compressor and dust collector from the rest of the environment. Mount them on isolation pads and contain them with heavy mass enclosures. With a little ingenuity, you can make the enclosures easily movable for service, just watch the ventilation requirements. Only after this would I spend much effort on your building structure.
There is lots of info out there. Some bad, some good, it would seem. My interest in acoustics started long ago with audiophilia...the pursuit of things one cannot hear ;)
Anyway, my approach is this; I want to get the room finished first...easier now than retrofitting. For less than $500 I can do a somewhat decoupled wall with a constrained layer of rock/visco/rock fastened to studs/cels/osb.
I'm also using this as a sort of test bed. There's a growing market for noise isolation and abatement in homes I'd like to tap into, so in this case I'm the guinea pig.
I do intend to put the machines on iso pads, and if they're still to noisy for me, then noise curtains / enclosures. I have to remember this is also a woodshop with lots on noisy machines outside the room.
Incidently the majority of noise the dust collector makes is not mechanical, but air noise from fan and ductwork....ductwork that terminates in the workspace. I may be looking to mitigate this as well...the test will come when I'm using it.PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
I hear ya. There was in the last year a discussion on this board that had a link to a company that was in the sound mitigation business and as I remember they used a special rubber membrane. I thought I saved the link but now I can't find it. The website of the company had some great technical discussion about sound isolation. Maybe someone here will recollect.....Nobody gets in to see the wizard...not nobody...not no how!
Was it mass loaded vinyl?
http://www.soundisolationcompany.com/soundproof-barrier.php
I've talked to these guys and they seem to not be into the "silver bullet" business, as some would appear to be. I ordered Green Glue from them.PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
That might be the one but not sure. It may be the same type or similar product but the web site doesn't seem familiar. Oh well I am sure you are going to have fun anyway. The interesting thing if you look at the chart they have, at the lower frequencies, you reach kind of a plateau at the 1 pound density of the vinyl.Nobody gets in to see the wizard...not nobody...not no how!