boom dropped a pallet of osb on ladder
I got a lumber delivery this morning on a boom truck. Per lumber yard policy, I signed a release form for them to set materials on my structure. The operator picked up a bundle of osb (30 sheets of 5/8), swung the boom around and proceeded to drop the entire bundle 30-40 ft. Fortunately, no one was injured. Fortunately, he was still only over an open part of the foundation, no structural damage. He did, however, bust up my heavy-duty 8 ft step ladder. I called my rep at the yard and explained the situation on his voicemail, stating that my impression of the release is that if they put materials on my floor structure and it collapses, I will not hold them responsible for the collapse. It seems to me that if they drop the load it is their fault. I don’t have to sign a release to have them boom material onto my lot, just onto the structure…at any rate, I asked if they could replace my ladder…….the rep called back and said he felt like the release relieved them of any responsiblity…..
maybe legally they are right, but I feel like ethically they should replace the ladder…
any opinions?
the ladder is not that big a deal, and I’m just counting my lucky stars no one got hurt….
Replies
They should certainly eat the cost of a ladder. They are getting off easy on this one.
Was the OSB replaced?
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
maybe legally they are right, but I feel like ethically they should replace the ladder...
Maybe its time to remind your rep that there are other places to buy your material.
I think at the very least they should be bringing you out a new ladder.
Doug
It doesn't seem reasonable that they are not responsible. If the worst case happened, and thankfully it didn't, and someone was hurt, I doubt that they would escape liability. You assumed that they could operate their equipment properly. I'm assuming operator error and no on site condition caused the accident.
John
Agree the rep is just being a cheap screw.
Edited 2/20/2008 9:53 pm ET by JohnCujie
No one can be released from negligence. From what you say the operator was negligent.
No one can be released from negligence. From what you say the operator was negligent.
Not true. That happens all the time. Next time your kid needs you to sign a permission slip for a field trip, take a look at it. It probably releases the school from any liability, including negligence. In some jurisdictions, such a release will not be enforceable when there is gross negligence.
In this case, the release wouldn't cover what happened, since it clearly is limited to situations where damage results even though the load is properly lowered.
I'm with the others. This isn't a legal matter, but a business one. The supplier appears to have two employees it needs to reevaluate: The driver who either isn't competent or wasn't trained; and the guy who told the OP he wouldn't replace the ladder.
There was just an artical in JLC about negligence... now you can sue the for 30 million dollars<G>
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
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The moonlight reflects from the window
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Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
It's great that no one was hurt. As for your ladder, no question, they should absolutely replace it. If they refuse take it off your payment. There are other yards to buy from, no? They can replace your ladder at wholesale price, I think that's hardly worth loosing a good customer over. Let us know if they do the right thing.
Rich
somehow the osb was barely damaged and the rep said he would replace any that needed to be replaced.
definitely operator error. he had already unloaded 4-5 other bundles and my framers had commented that he did not know what he was doing...
thanks for the feedback...i was thinking that maybe i was wrong and just angry/scared. i also think that they are getting off easy with just a ladder.
That attitude from them brands them a no class operation.
To lose your business over a hundred dollar ladder is indeed shortsighted.
Maybe they need help climbing up to the next level of customer satisfaction.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
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It's pathetic that it would even be a point of discussion ! They should have immediately said "of course we will replace your ladder".
They should replace the ladder. If they don't, send them the receipt from where you purchased the next load of lumber.
Thats exactly what i'd do. The only problem is that no one cares anymore. There are too many people that will put up with poor service and keep going back.
The bottom line is that for the most part customer service is out the window. Too much complacency in the world. Why make you happy, there's 100 more behind you and they'll be back.
I comepletely agree. I try very hard to get most, if not all of my material from a local source. Hopefully family owned. I HATE The Home Depot, Lowes, Stock, Curtis. I may end up spending 3-5% more but the service and the quality of the products is exceptional.
"It is what it is."
Talk to his boss. Don't even go back to him. He's an idiot.
Call him back and tell him they have till the end of the day to replace the ladder, if not you are replacing them as your supplier and they can come out and pick up there osb because you will not be paying for it.
Wallyo
I got my roofer to replace my wind up cord reel, I was cutting holes for bath exhaust fan vents his boys knocked it off the roof. He spent the 40.00 because he knew it could cost the next job and I was pissed.
You hit the nail on the head.
I'd be having them come get all of their materials and they can beat it. I wouldn't buy a squirt from a hose from them if I was on fire.
I am astounded that a lumber yard would refuse to replace the ladder given the situation.
<!----><!----><!---->
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
I'da called and told my rep they killed my best helper and crushed my favorite ladder ...
and I'm really pissed ...
'cause I really liked that ladder.
so they'd better replace it for free!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
dude, you're killing me.
<!----><!----><!---->
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
best part is I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I'd call in and say.
word for word.
people stop arguing and just give U what U want to make U go away when they realize U just ain't right ...
got me thru life so far!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I don't know about legally, but from a business POV, if they want any more of mine, they replace the ladder and send new OSB
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Piffen,
that's an interesting idea
" From a business point of view"
seriously--- let's play devils advocate
from a business point of view------ is the customer a customer that the supplier would risk losing over a $120 ladder?
from a business point of view-- is the SUPPLIER a supplier that the customer would want to risk losing over a $120 ladder?
any way you look at it--that ladder could be REALLY expensive!
personally-as a supplier I would actually be sort of thrilled for the chance to replace the ladder-and probably through in some extra freebies and apologies as well
but as the Customer?--- i would have probably called my salesman, casually and low keyed----- mentioning what happened. I would mention the ladder getting squashed in passing but i wouldn't make a big deal out of it--the important thing would be that I need any damaged osb sheets replaced-------and then I would wait to see what happened.
i would fully expect to see it come back to me many times over in better scheduling/speedier deliveries/a half dozen unspoken favors etc.
but if i made a big deal of it------ I would expect it to COST me along those same lines.
definitely as the supplier I would want to replace it ASAP----but as the customer?????? not so certain I would want to make a big deal out of it.
BTW--- in my business--- there isn't much difference among the suppliers on the price they charge for the materials-there is one supplier with slightly lower prices---and it is reflected in the service
but there is one supplier that gives truly excellent service---the value of the service GREATLY exceeds the cost difference in materials. If the excellent service provider made a screw up like this one with the ladder I suspect i would be insistent on letting THEM off the hook-----because I have every confidence it would come back to me many times over.(" no,no,no --- don't worry about the ladder Dave--- accidents happen, i am just glad nobody was hurt---don't worry about it at all, i will see ya tuesday---i have a big job in XYZ coming up"--- i have every confidence it would come back to me)
just my opinion,
stephen
BTW-- semi related note-- supplier told me yesterday-about his son. son went to a local hamburger stand--locally famous for THE BEST hamburgers-- it's a local chain of about 5 locations.
anyhow-- it's one of those places that still uses Carhops---college boys and college girls that SPRINT out to your car-and SPRINT inside to place the order.- so, my suppliers son goes there for lunch last week-- carhop is Runn9ing up to take the order when the supliers son hears this THUMP-and his van shakes--he looks in the mirror----and there is a guy holding a gun to the carhops head--robs him.
what i can't believe-is the hamburger stand FIRED the carhop!- the carhop had more than $100 on him.- i can't believe they fired the kid-- because my inclination as the hamburger stand owner-would have been to apologise to the carhop---" wow, i am so sorry this happened to you, We are so glad you are OK-you are OK aren't you?--why don't you take the rest of the week off?- don't worry about your pay-we will take care of it----you have always been a good worker--we just want you to pull yourself together and then we will be happy for you to come back to work when you are ready"
that would be my inclination---but I don't know anything about the hamburger stand business--may that sort of thing would just encourage more robberies?
Best wishes,
stephen
hey, thanks for the opinions. i see the point of NOT demanding the ladder, it is only a ladder. the greater point of good service had already occured to me, in that, yes, there are other yards to deal with, but up until this, these guys have been great. they stock the stuff i need(the smaller yards have to order). they are close to my main center of work, always put me on the schedule when i need it, etc. so I don't really want to piss em off.....but, like most of your replies, i'm somewhat incredulous that they didn't over-apologize and come out here with a ladder and a round of java for the crew.........to be fair, it has been less than 24 hrs an i did play it as low key as i could, trying not to be a jerkover a ladder.......anyway, thanks again
I think it's much more important to make the yard very, very aware that the operator is not skilled enough to be using this equiptment !
You mentioned your guys noted he wasn't skilled in it's use.
Tell the yard forcefully about his lack of talent.
This time no one was hurt, but maybe someone will be hurt on another delivery.
This is a very serious hazard when 600 pounds or more is being moved around overhead.
Sorry-- I addressed this to the wrong Op should have been thinksalot
Edited 2/21/2008 6:38 am ET by theslateman
I low key things too Steven, but this OP already tried it that way and his rep told him basically to go jump off a cliff. That is where I kick into high gear.
I agree with the guy who said to go to the owner of the yard and bypass the rep.For me, it is not the cost of the ladder - it is the cheapazz attitude of the company rep that tells me there are other problems with this company that need retraining if they want to keep my business. For instance, the fact that this even happened in the first place. Accidents don't happen, they are caused. And they are caused much more frequently in a company with the sort of cheapazz attitude displayed by the company rep he talked to
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The reason for firing the guy was probably that employees aren't supposed to carry that much cash. The more cash they carry, the more the robber gets. That encourages more robberies, which endangers other employees.
Do stars clean themselves with meteor showers?
yes- that's about what i figure.
just seems wrong firing a guy who just had a gun put to his head.
makes me wish the hamburgers weren't so good--and the peanut butter shakes--especially the peanut butter shakes.
i would be tempted to take a pricipled stand on this and not go there anymore-- but did i mention the peanut butter shakes?
stephen
Who knows, maybe they had reason to believe it was an inside job?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Yeah.... but the peanut butter shakes....... :)View Image
Your lumber yard assumes that your purchase from them, you pay on time, and your checks are good. You assume good service, product, and someone that know how to operate the boom properly. Break that circle, then there is problem.
Maybe another lumber yard has operaters that know how to operate a boom saftly??
"the rep called back and said he felt like the release relieved them of any responsiblity....."
did you mention that perhaps their neglagence and lack of customer serice may "relieve" them of your business?
thanksalot,
time to go over your reps head.. get ahold of the boss.
the rep called back and said he felt like the release relieved them of any responsiblity.....
and his next words should have been "however, we would still be happy to replace your ladder and we apologize for any inconvenience."
That would have given you the opportunity to take him up on a new ladder or to be the "good" guy and tell him not to worry about it. Definitely would have let them know the operator was not qualified! The next time it could be more than a ladder.
I think lots of companies would benefit from a little more customer service training.
My own issue is with my LP supplier. We missed the pre-buy, keep-full deal (never got a notification) and so we just had the tank filled in mid-November. Had very mild weather, called for a fill up early in January. Girl on the phone asks what the tank gauge reads...I say I have no idea, but it's been almost 2 months and I just want the tank topped off. She says read the gauge and call back.
Guess what - got busy, weather got really warm, I forgot. Called back about 2 weeks later, same story. I was going out of town that day and already late getting out; by the time I got home the supplier was closed. Figure I'll read the stupid gauge in the morning and call them. An hour later I'm out of gas and the temperature is getting colder.
Next morning I call to tell them now I'm sure what the gauge says as I'm out of gas. Another girl says "You know we have up to 5 days to get to you". I tell her it's 54d in the house, my husband is in poor health and I called the day before and got the song and dance about reading the gauge...she asks if they scheduled a delivery. I say no, the girl never offered, just said read the gauge and call back. New girl says there will be a $100 off-route charge and $75 charge to read the empty tank now.
I tell her that if they would check their records when a customer asks them for a delivery, it would solve a lot of problems for everyone and to just bring the gas that day. This is the same company who has let us run out of gas before on the keep-full schedule, so it's not hard to understand why I'm going elsewhere. I'm also not paying the additional charges.
All of this could have been avoided if anyone at the supplier had been trained to do anything but parrot the same thing over and over. Even when I asked the girl to just check our records, it was just too much effort. I'll be interested to hear what the owner says when I call to complain.
I was just out of town for a couple weeks. I checked the gauge before I left for the propane. At least half full.
The people staying to watch the house ran out of propane while we were gone.
Gauges can lie
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Poor service is poor service.
jt8
"A free society is a place where it's safe to be unpopular."-- Adlai Stevenson
Makes me feel better...I should have figured that their gauge might not be any more reliable than the gas gauge in our truck. New people coming tomorrow - say they have had lots of calls to switch from this company. Apparently my old supplier wouldn't come out for less than 150 gallons, so I guess that's why they wanted a read on the gauge.
Just curious who wound up picking up all the spilled OSB and put it where it needed to be, Your crew or their's?
Wallyo
If I bought a pallet quantity of anything and in the delivery process they busted up an 8' ladder and didnt replace it, i'd make it a point to never use them again.
I'm very forgiving and loyal, but I also have a good memory. Treat me right and i'll always come back. You will only screw me once though. This I promise you, you'll never hear from me again.
Edited 2/21/2008 1:14 pm ET by MSA1
What would you do if the OSB fell through your deck. Because he dropped it... If they screw up it's their baby. They should make it right.
I would also switch salesmen and the very least, commissioned salesmen get the point when the $ are put on the line.
Garett
I'd take the ladder to the store where the guy works.
Find Joe Saleman and say, " I'd like to exchange this, it seems to be defective"
Calling on the fone is like being anonymous on the net, he didn't "feel" you enough..show up in his face, and be kind about it..I'll bet ya you get a new ladder..esp. IF you happen talk loud enough that other customers can hear what you have to say.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I would visit the supplier and talk to the owner or manager.
Quietly and peacefully explain what happened.
Indicate my concerns about the training of the operator, address the damage done and the potential for what might have happened and the possibility of future occurrences.
Reassure him that I understand shid happens but this was avoidable.
Then I would tell him that I just wanted him to know about the situation that I had talked to the salesman and he seemed pretty unconcerned about the situation.
I will put a $20 on the fact the owner/manager sees to it that you get a new ladder, maybe some hats etc.
Yes, maybe some hard hats so they're ready for the next delivery !
"hats- Some hard hats for the next delivery!..." That was good...
pencils too
I was thinking the same thing. Hats for sure, but if there are no pencils it's not over.
I am not putting my $20 up if you are gonna make them include pencils!! I am still working off the box of 1 gross of them a brand new stock clerk handed me one morning at the contractors desk when nobody else was around to stop her and I commented I could use some pencils. I felt terrible , yep just terrible taking advantage of her like that. ;-)
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
She sounds like a pencil pusher.
LOL, Good one!
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I'd find out who makes the FINAL decision in the business. Make and appointment with him and his customer service guy and ask the delivery guy be there too. Bring the ladder and point out that they are lucky there are no blood stains on it.
Have them tell what happened and ask boss type person what he would do.
Did the employee fill out or report the "incident" to his supervisor. If not why not? If I have a business (I did) I'd want to know what was going on. First guy to hide it is fired. The guy that helped him hide it is fired.
Report it to his insurance company.
I think it would be worth a couple hours to make the point. Refuse payment if they don't accomodate you. Make them come get their stuff and reorder elsewhere if you can do so.
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Accidents happen and how your lumber supplier react shows alot about the type of business they run. I would expect/demand replacement of the ladder and if they refused I would have to back charge them for the disruptance of your jobsite, man hours lost due to there negligance. You are lucky, in our neck of the woods they will not set building material on the second floor or roofs only drywall. I hope you tool pictures of the mess and the material so you have a leg to stand on. I agree if you do not get reimbursed for the ladder I would look for a nother supplier.
Since they agreed to replace any damaged sheets... they accepted responsibility for damages caused by the accident, making the release a worthless piece of paper.
Price isn't everything, I'll pay for good customer service, and you ain't getting any....
Shop elsewhere.
Unfortunately, it doesn't surprise me what happened to you. Many employees are so scared of saying "We're so sorry, what color would you like your new heavy duty ladder in?"
They are afraid if they said something like that it would be admitting liability and legal action may follow and they might lose their job because they opened their mouth etc., etc., etc.
The problem is that his response is so unsatisfying I think it would be more likely to elicit legal action on the basis of "emotional pain and suffering every time a boom truck goes by" or some other charge a lawyer could dream up.
Instead of just doing the right thing so many people are afraid they'll do something wrong and as a result they stonewall you.
I hope somebody comes to their senses at that lunber yard and gives you a ladder.
"They are afraid if they said something like that it would be admitting liability "
They admitted liabilty when they said they'd replace the damaged OSB.
Where is your law degree from, and in how many states have you passed the bar?
"Where is your law degree from, and in how many states have you passed the bar?"
Sorry, didn't mean to make it sound like a mater to be pursued legally. I'd ask my salesman what his logic is behind replacing the OSB and not the ladder.