Get this: A glassed door’d cabinet in my kitchen rattled every time you walked past it. It was a bit annoying, but has progressively gotten worse (either that or I have grown progressively intolerant, especially after I noticed a crack in the group line where the kitchen tile joins the hallway tile). So I went under the crawl space and could see that there was a 1/8″ – 3/16″ gap between the floor joists and the mid-span girder (i.e. the span was not halved by the girder). The only thing I can figure is this:
- joist shrinks up because the sub-flooring is nailed to it
- beam shrinks down because it sets on the piers
- thus: gap
Well, I’m planning to fix the problem by using regular pine shims typically used for door instalation. Hammer two in under each joist (one from either side of the beam).
Do you think the above remediation is the best way about it? Me thinks this will solve it.
You should be able to walk an elephant over this floor considering the other specifics:
- 18′ long span with #2 2×10 SYP 16″ o.c.
- span more or less halved with beam (tripple 2×12) supported every 8′ with a 16×16 block pier filled.
- crawl-space is non-vented, insulated, dehumidified to about 45%
- sub-floor 3/4″ advantek
- 3/8″ tile over 1/4″ hardi
Thanks,
Roger <><
Edited 2/28/2007 6:21 pm ET by MrSQL
Replies
10-4, Roger that Roger!
Sounds like you've got!
The dehumidifier is drying the lumber nicely and the shims will do the trick to make that beam do as intended again. once snug, tighht, and level, I would throw some screws or nails in the joist connecting joist to beam, or add some Simpson A-35s
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Piffin,If you don't mind a question that might be obviously foolish on my part...Why wouldn't one use an LVL shim instead of a cedar one here? Wouldn't that stand up better to any compression issues? Sincerely,
The Young GrasshopperTua res agitur, paries cum proximus ardet ~ Horace
Ususally girders drop due to piers setting. 16x16 could be ok on real stable soils, but 24 x24 is better, although still wouldnt work if not placed on hardpan or problems with water in soil . 2x10 woun't span 18, so if it were just srinkage (maybe 1/4 in witdh of 2x12 ) seems like joists might follow the girder down especially more toward center of room. You might take a closer look at the piers, might have to lift the girder and add a couple more posts amd piers making sure you are down to hardpan. Also cedar shims would probably be ok but make your own out of doug fir or yellow pine. If piers are ok, might just replace girder post or shim and add scabs over post sides and 12" girder.
Yeah, that was the house I was working on in Biloxi. Nothing but sand to bear on there, of course, and the center beam supports were typically about 16x16", eight feet apart. Needless to say there was a gutter down the middle of the house.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I've never seen an LVL shim, but I'd expect it to splinter up into pieces and blow away. Type of wood for the shims is not important unless there is a serious point load on it.
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Thanks. I thought I had read something here or over at JLC about slicing LVLs to use as shims on joists. Thanks for setting the record straight.Tua res agitur, paries cum proximus ardet ~ Horace
Does anyone make decent composite or metal shims, for cases where wood is a hair too wimpy?
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Check window supply places.
CR Laurence comes to mind.
Plastic horseshoe shims, solid ones and others that
can be broken off in 1/16" increments.
Used in commercial window installations, they'll handle the load.
various sizes, too. 1 1/2" x 3 1/2" (convenient) and others,
Mclaren
I got a stack of steel shims from a local metal fab shop. 3"x12", varying in thickness from 1/16" to 1/4". Take a little weight off the support, slide the appropriate shim in and let it down. SOLID.
I also use them, or cutoffs from them, to shim low spots under sills on slabs.
great idea
My local lumberyard sells assorted thickness metal shims - it's an Ace Hardware store._______________________________________________________________
I used to be schizophrenic, but we're OK now.
The whole idea of using harder shims has never made sense to me.
Think about it!Of the beam below is (assumed values of hardnness) a 1.1 and the joists above it are also 1.1 hardness, it is good to use a slightly softer shim material, say with a hradness value of 1.0 because it will not damage the structural materials.But if you used a composite shim of2.1 hardness or steel at 2.8 hardness, then any loading is going to bruise the structural elements under load leading to eventual re-shimming or replacement of shim.With cedar, at worst, you just tighten it again. Same with any shim material that ahs approx the same hardness as the structure being shimmed.So steel shims are for shimming steel, wood for wood
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It's not so much the hardness as the toughness and the physical size. Conventional shims are fine for setting windows and doors, and maybe shimming up a low joist, but they're typically only 1-1/2" wide, and even if you use several you can't get a lot of bearing surface where, say, a beam rests on a pier. Plus they don't tend to hold up well to driving tight -- more than a few light hammer taps and they splinter.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I must use a better grade of cedaar than you do, LOL
I do a lot of cedar shingling and always have lots of saved srap from those shingle jobs that I rip into 2"-3" shims without knots.Point taken if he is shimming between concrete pier and the beam, but between beam and joist, cedar is prime choice.
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Yeah, I wouldn't want to drop the $$ needed to buy a bundle of cedar shingles just to get shims. Otherwise, shingles would make sense in many of these cases.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin