Is this discussion group slipping? I’ve been here for a bunch of years, and sometimes…….
Recently I asked twice about whether or not anybody had any advice on something significant that was in the latest issue of FHB- retrofitting a roof with undershingle venting. One reply to both posts – a guy from Florida who said it is probably a bad idea, which it is in Florida, but I live in Southern California.
One reply. With all the construction professionals here, and all the roofing discussions that have occurred here over the past several years, I was sure someone had good advice.
At about the same time, there was a discussion on how to paint behind a toilet – 68 messages.
Is Breaktime becoming a branch of This Old House?
jose c.
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“Though I don’t think” added Deep Thought “that you’re going to like it.”
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“Though I don’t think” added Deep Thought “that you’re going to like it.”
Replies
IMO, it's a dead horse question.
I began coming to BT in hopes of getting advice from peers (waywardly thinking that FHB was a construction pro oriented publication). I have found that it is not at all published in the interest of professionals but rather for DIY's who want to pretend they are professionals.
For some reason, many vets here love answering the same Q's over and over. They are the ones with the "BT wouldn't exist without me" attitude.
Some vets aren't even pros themselves, just know-it-all DIY's who built a shed once and lurked in BT for awhile. Still, many vets are pros.
FWIW, I don't think the discussion board has slipped and if you've picked up an issue of TOH mag lately, you will see that FHB hasn't sank to that level yet.
There is still plenty of good/new/useful information to be garnered at BT, you've just hit the milestone that made you aware of the piles of poor/old/useless info that needed to be gone through.
Remember that there is usually some other [more reliable] source of information for your construction related questions elsewhere.
Breaktime....for entertainment purposes only!
DC
In my view, FHB is good for the professional who is looking to DIY something. The framer needs to build a cabinet, the cabinetmaker needs to frame something, and the electrician needs to remodel his bathroom. I can't really see it helping handy homeowner so much, but maybe I'm underestimating the general public.I agree: it's no good for professional development in one's trade.
Edited 7/25/2009 10:51 pm ET by Biff_Loman
I guess I can agree that it could help a niche-pro to break out. But the reality is that the magazine is DIY homeowner oriented these days. Being a full service remodeler who must deal with all aspects of residential construction, I don't learn a whole heap from it anymore. The "tips and tricks" section is usually the most useful, the rest is just redundant fodder giving one or two new insights to the task. To be truly useful, I back it up with a generous construction design/build library. But for the most part, it's just fun for me to see how others do what I do; where they cut corners or go overboard (usually they go way overboard).I can usually tell when a non-trades friend or client has picked up an issue.My biggest gripes with the mag have always been the same:1. they do the same articles over and over. How to install a window, skylight, shingles, fan, cabinet, frame a wall, etc. but they rarely do anything that is a real head-scratcher. 2. they too often don't tell what the cost of feature projects are. The complex curved house in the latest issue would have been a good one to know costs on. They talk a lot about making choices to fit the client's budget but won't disclose what the budget is. That really peeves me.DC
they too often don't tell what the cost of feature projects are.
I think it's a case of, "If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it." It's amazing some of the things that can be accomplished with an umlimited budget! However, I often find myslef saying to my dear wife--"These people have more money than brains!"
LOL, that phrase is so dominant in my head, that I almost blurted it out when talking to a potential customer the other day. Caught myself just in time.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If you get any wind over 40mph, plan on picking that vent up about 40 miles away, in whichever direction the wind is blowing.
Take a drill 3/16 and drill the stucco out of vents where they are covered. You'll be way better off.
One of the things is that you never know what question is going to not get any responses for a day or two and thus gets pushed down in the stack or starts to get lots of reponses.
A lot of it I think is just timing and luck of the draw.
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Post your Q as if from a single , hot , female that got taken to the cleaners by a bad, bad contractor, and now you want help.
Be sure to include a pic of a single hot female somewhere in your profile or in one of your posts...preferable scantilly clad and holding something in a provacative manner.
You bet yer bippy you will get an earful of advice.
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Funny how that works here
you can even go by the name of "Spellchecker" : )View Image
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No idea if the board is any better or worse than it was in the past.
I read your question and shied away from it because undershingle venting is a pretty new idea that I have no experience with, so anything I could contribute would be mere speculation. I imagine that is why quite a few threads get so little response.
For what that's worth I wouldn't think of trying it until it had a few years of successful use in this region. More roof penetrations aren't generally something to aim for here in the PNW.
I saw that thread you started, and being professional, I didn't reply because I knew nothing about the product. Would you rather I chipped in with some wisecrack so you could have a longer thread?
Fact is, any question about a relatively new uncommon product is not going to get much answer when it is worded to solicit answers from those who have used it.
Apparently, more guys have painted behind toilets than have used the type of vent system you are interested in using, and have done it with many different methods.
It does sometimes seem that this forum has been dumbed down in that many experienced builders have been treated poorly here in the last couple years by the way the corp management has handled doing the moderation thing, but there is an effort currently to possibly improve that. Only time will tell if the new method chases more builders away and atracts more DIYs or if it will be encouraging to real builders to stay and offer advice to those DIYs
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin - Thanks. Your comment was exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. Not being in the trade (I build space vehicles - a different skill set) when I see something that addresses a problem I have that I nave not seen before, I want to understand the risks against the benefits of it. This board is one of the places I have learned about a bunch of stuff that I have rolled into my home, such as Kerdi, that I would never have come across nor understood the plusses and minuses without the feedback from you pros. I have been kept from doing stupid things. That's why I ask. Even a "this is new, I dunna know" is helpful.jose c.
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"Though I don't think" added Deep Thought "that you're going to like it."
I don't know how new some of this stuff is. I ask because I really am an amateur at this, but have used the ideas from this board for a bunch of different things, and hearing from the pros makes me a smarter consumer or DIY'er. Sometimes a "don't know" means as much as a detailed reference.Of course, wisecracks are always appreciated.jose c.
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"Though I don't think" added Deep Thought "that you're going to like it."
I agree with Piffin.
Your topic is too far out there and no one has any experience. I don't have any idea what undershingle venting is and I'm in the roofing business LOL. And, like most new ideas, I wouldn't be in too big of a rush to be the first guy on the block to do it. I find most new products and ideas to be too costly, less profitable and they also tend to tie up the labor force.
The typical situation is this: a homeowner reads about a product in a home magazine and of course the writer is in love with it and pushes it. The homeowner thinks the product is the best thing since sliced bread. Then, they go looking for someone to install it. There are normally two issues: the suppliers don't have it and no one is familiar with it. It turns into a nightmare getting the right product and all it's components on site. Meanwhile, the second and third nightmares (the installation and results) are awaiting.
I don't think this site is dumbing down any more than it was before. A lot of very skilled and knowledgeable craftsmen have been driven off by a variety of ways but there are a lot of newcomers with excellent abilities replacing them. I do see a lot more new topics being started though so if you want your topic to be seen, you have to nuture it by bumping it back to the top a few times.
Lets try to remember the early days and keep it in perspective. I remember engaging in the first topic (I don't know what or who started it) that resulted in the post count exceeding 100 posts. That was a milestone that seemed amazing. Now it's routine. To me, it's like comparing yesteryears athletes to todays group. You can't do it. It's never a logical discussion.
Try this as the subject:
Obama and Pelosi draft medical reform act to include undershingle venting mandate.
Then just stand back.
" Try this as the subject:
Obama and Pelosi draft medical reform act to include undershingle venting mandate. Then just stand back."I'll have to try that one on my Dad. He and I haven't flamed each other by email in a while.jose c.
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"Though I don't think" added Deep Thought "that you're going to like it."
Ya see how this works?!?!?Nobody seems like they notice you, but you keep trying, and eventually,... you got responses!!! Ya just gotta rattle some cages!!! Thats allI can't even try to fix yer problem, wish I could tho!!!And my question to you is,.... El kabong? We talkin' Cheech & Chong,.... or the cartoon?Either way! Keep postin' and tryin', worst that could happen is gettin' stinky boots from talkin' to me!!! And I don't mind,.... I gotta nose plug thingy!
Most deluded cartoon superhero ever !!!! but a bit of C&C is in there as well.His appearance on Harvey Birdman was the best, even if it didn't cast him in the best light.I tried to get our moon smasher named after him, but no joy.jose c.
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"Though I don't think" added Deep Thought "that you're going to like it."
Once I figure out what to do, I'll do one of those fancy photo essays if it looks in the least interesting.jose c.
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"Though I don't think" added Deep Thought "that you're going to like it."
There are all sorts of products that are new and interesting... but not in common usage. Those vents are one of those things.
Time to man up to your task! Test the heat for a couple weeks in your attic, then install the vents. Afterwards, you tell US how it went.
Personally, I'm a little suspicious of the product, but if it come down to No Vent vs Vent That Might Not Work... VTMNW wins every time!
Tu stultus es
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
"Personally, I'm a little suspicious of the product, but if it come down to No Vent vs Vent That Might Not Work... VTMNW wins every time!"
My fear is that the choice might be between no vents and a vent that is a source for potential leaks into the roof space. Unlike soffit vents, with this, during periods of heavy rain, the intake for the attic air is a completely saturated rooftop with drops bouncing up into the air. Maybe I'm just cautious, but I've had enough problems with ridge vent designs to want to sit this one out until it has been around for a while longer.
A couple of thoughts...the "intake" is the soffit vent, which is not exposed to raindrops. The "outflow" is the ridge.But your points are taken in that wind-blown rain and snow can enter through some of the lesser ridge vents.If you're interested, take a look at the ShinglVent II. It has external baffles and internal baffles for protection from infiltration.
I meant the intake being the under shingle venting he was asking about.
Speaking of ridge vents. I have tried a few different types. My problem here is that the ones which offer some protection against wind blown water, like Cor-a-vent, tend to get clogged by fir needles and other debris. I haven't found one that I trust to stay clear but not leak.
It would depend on how long that intake chute was. From the illustrations I remember, they seemed quite long
Tu stultus esRebuilding my home in Cypress, CAAlso a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
Back in '96 when we started this place, it was just builders. You asked a question, you got an answer. And if someone didn't know they would ask around and get an answer or a source or a link for you.
Today this site is huge. It's very social, there are non-construction folk who know how to paint behind a toilet so they'll chime in on that thread. But they might not know much about the thermal envelope of a house, so they'll pass on that. So naturally some threads get more interest than others.
But with all that traffic, new technical or specific posts that don't get replied to fall off the board pretty easily, shoved aside by the "What's the best way to remove a splinter" thread that gets 307 replies in 20 minutes.
So, yeah, the forum is diluted. If you visit the Tavern you'll find the forum to also be deluded.
There are posts I never see (your mystery thread is one of them) that I might finally catch a glimpse of two weeks or a month after the thread has died.
Still, this site is a great asset. There are a few on this forum that just floor me with their level of knowledge. The worst post on the worst day at Breaktime still destroys the best stuff on TOH and Bobby Vila's funland forum.
Everyone complaining about the quality of posts here hasn't turned on their television recently. My wife is addicted to those "fix-'em-up" shows and we watch together during dinner sometimes.
I about lost my dinner tonight when I watched a hunky "carpenter" cross cut a strip of wood flooring for a repair with a circular saw- freehand! I watched two hunks fruitlessly tap at an old shower tile with a chipping hammer, finally someone broke out a sledge that was still too small for my tastes. If you would like to learn how not to do something or just perfer to scream at your television, tune in to one of these shows.
I've never seen anything remotely close to this on This Old House.
Kowboy
I only watch TOH and New Yankee so I can scream at the tube. I especially like yelling at Norm.Essentially it's the blatant excess that peeves me about those two shows (and sometimes peeves me about FHB mag too). Norm's got all the tools that you couldn't afford. The TOH home owners act poor but you know they are dropping close to a mil on their project; cause we all know it's cheaper to just tear the whole thing down and start over than to meticulously reconstruct every detail.And FHB must be coverin' their arses when they describe the most cost inefficient, over blown way to install a window/cabinet/garbage bag/etc. (then they still get flamed in reader feedback for not doing it the
"right" way). I generally want to punch every person from the "reader's feedback" section in the kidneys. And since when did Mike Guertin become the only FHB feature carpenter? Oh, and why so many darned advertisements....$8 an issue isn't enough for yas?See, I even yell at the mag when I ain't lookin' at it.DC
you been hanging with my XW to much... for too long...
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Is this discussion group slipping?
'Entropy always increases'...but, no, I do not think BT is slipping as badly as you seem to think it is.
There is good, solid, technical advice on all aspects of homebuilding to be had here; there are also always going to be the animated technical discussions of 'hot' topics like 'shall the rock be hung vertically or horizontally...?' or 'To vent or not to vent, that is the question....'
And yeah, sometimes we like to kid DIYers just a tad, or encourage them to push their own envelope while still offering them good advice in between gags. That 'painting behind a toilet' thread is an example.
But Mongo is right, the site is huge and has become very much a social networking site in addition to a technical resource. There is nothing wrong with that--hell, some fora I have visited count posts per month on the fingers of one foot, while at BT you can sometimes get 50 posts to a thread in an hour or two. That's a function of the sheer number of people on line at any given time; you don't get that kind of response when only one or two experts per day check in to see what questions have been posted since their last visit.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....