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When tying the grounds together in an electrical box, I have been told (per local code) that I must mechanically connect the grounds (versus just twisting them together). Sounds good. I can use wire nuts or “Buchanan caps (copper crimp connectors)”, which require a crimp. Two questions….
1) What is preferred, the twist nuts or the crimp caps?
2) What tool is required for crimping the Buchanan caps? I have a tool by Klein called a “Crimping and Cutting Tool, for insulated and non-insulated connectors”. Is this the one for the Buchanans?
I like the idea of the Buchanans, as they take up less room -vs- the twist connector. Any ideas? Thanks. –TJM
Replies
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TJM, there is a special tool for the Buchanans. When done this way, it does take up less space in the box, looks very professional. Inspectors love to see this.
*However....You will almost never see an electrician use the proper crimper, at least not around here. Most of them use a lineman plier, which doesn't do the job. Result is a poor connection. I can't believe electrical inspectors let them get away with this, but I see it on almost every job. If you want a foolproof connection, use the nuts. Although, I agree there is nothing wrong with crimping them if you use the right tool for the job!
*Thanks Guys. Now then, can somebody tell me exactly what the proper tool is for crimping the Buchanans? I have a Klein crimping tool, which appears to create a crimp from one side (ie..one jaw is convex, one concave). I was told that possibly the latest code may require a "four-sided" crimp. Any ideas? Thanks again. --TJM
*Use C24 part number tool from Ideal Industries. Type c24 in the search box to see what they look like. The Ideal website is a bit funky, so I cant paste an address directly.http://www.idealindustries.com/products/index.htmHere is a mail order company that sells them.http://www.dale-electric.com/crimpt.htm
*The Buchanan tool has four pins that crimp inward simultaneously when you squeeze the handle. I got mine at the big orange box. Try there, or an electrical supply house, or the site Mark suggested.
*Around here, we use "greenies" which are green wire nuts with a hole at the end to allow for a pig tail. The crimps are great but start loosening when the wires get moved around by the drywallers. fv
*Drywallers don't loosen then, it happens when the painter drags out the device ground to pierce the end of his caulk tube.Luck
*Ah, is that what happens!? fv
*The Buchanon crimper works great...I had two...One walked. Note...you still twist the wires together.near the stream,ajThe green wire nuts work as well but I prefer the buchs when doing a whole home.
*Thanks Guys. The "big orange box" by me didn't have C24, nor did their local competitor. I will try the electric supply house on Monday. --TJM
*Humor me if this is in the Dumb-Question category..I bought a box of greenies per the advice of my master electrician neighbor; i've never seen the crimps used here (MT), at least not on residential, so i checked the Ideal site to see what you are talking about. It looks like the connection is meant to be permanent, so is there an uncrimping tool if you change your mind, or do you have to cut it off? Also, the insulative caps for the terminals--do these ever snap off as well as they snap on?Thanks, guys. Love learning new stuff!
*I was wondering myself about the "un-crimping" of these crimp connectors. It would seem meant for permanence. Then again, once the recap. or switch is in there, with a ground pig tailed, why would you want to undo the crimp? I've got some boxes that haven't been touched in 70 years. Packed as the original electrician left them. So, I'm not sure it's an issue to have to be able to undo the crimp. I am open to the opinions and experience of others, though. What are your thoughts? --TJM
*b WBA At Your ServiceThey are cut with a pair of dykes or diagonal cutting pliers.
*Hi, Tim, can you address my question about whether the snap-on insulative caps have a chance of snapping OFF? Or do you use another kind?
*SG, cut them off only & No, those push on caps have a kinda inside star washer gizmo inside them. Once they are on, they're on for good. JoeH
*OK! Now, while on the subject of Buchanans....I am running 12/2 NM. In one box I have four NM 12/2 cables entering. There will be one switch (it's a 4" x 2-1/8" square metal box, with a 1/2" mud ring, single gang). I must ground the box, and the switch. With a pig tail for box, and pig tail for switch, I could have to tie up to 6 wires together.Or, could I bring in one of the grounds long, wrap around the box ground screw, tie all four together, and have the excess length of the one available to ground the switch (as if I were using the green nut with the thou hole... make sense?)? Then I would have four 12AWG grounds in the Buchanan (the limit for size 2006S connector). I can also upgrade to 2011S, which will allow more than four 12AWG wires. I guess my question is..... how many wires should one lock together under one connector? Or, any suggestions on a neater approach? Thanks! --TJM
*Ground the switch?????
*Thanks bearmon. I think I'm awake now. Metal box. Box is grounded. Switch is fastened to box. Switch is grounded. Right? (I was thinking in terms of the green grounding screw on the switch...for plastic boxes, correct?). --TJM.
*Here the ground wire has to be fastened mechanically to the metal box..
*I use copper split nuts for connections over 5 wires. I occasionally crimp extra pigtails on the original pigtail if need so.fv
*From an electricians point of view..... buchanans are a throw back from the dark ages, they are a pain when you need to change a splice (in the case of adding extra devices later) and wire nuts have proven to be a reliable connector for years, who needs to buy an extra tool and have more parts to keep in stock!
*Bake and TJM...yaa may wanna not have so many wires in a small box...There is a limit...and buchs take less space than nuts...near the stream wondering how ya ended up with so many wires in da box...aj
*and if space is a problem....maybe the box is too small??? Jeff
*Actually, my question is.... how many wires should one lock together in one connector? Let's say the box is sufficient, how many 12 AWG wires would one want to tie together in one connector, be it wire nut or Buchanan? The Buchanan (2006S or 2011S) has a built in limitation...more just won't fit. As the commercial says, "just 'cause it fits, doesn't mean it looks good". Thanks! --TJM
*Since it's too much to commit all the stuff I need to know to a failing memory bank I usually just pick up the box the connectors come in and read the limitations printed on the side. I could have gone out to the truck and looked for you but now you get to do it.
*TJM, It varies. Connectors come in different sizes and thus can cap differing numbers of conductors. The bags I buy (500 twist caps per bag) have myriad conductor combos printed on the bag.I buy Buchanon twist caps in two sizes. The smaller is spec'd for up to three 12ga conductors, I only use it for two. The larger can take five, I only use a max of four.For the Buchanon copper sleeves, typically three 12ga conductors can be slid through the ones I use. If I need to connect more, I'll run one of those three long and use end of the longer conductor as the attachment point for the remaining conductors. With those, twist as well as crimp. Don't just rely on the cap.Remember, per code you can only have so many items stuffed in a box. The smallest I use is a 20" box, I never use 18's.
*Thanks everyone. Mongo's answer (and others') was the direction I was looking for. I know the connector packages give multiple combinations, but I was interested in the daily experience (rules of thumb). I have been using minimum 20ci boxes for the two romex situations, and 4 x 4 x 2-1/8" (30ci + mudring) for up to 4 romex (all 12AWG). This is renovation work, and these 4x4 boxes are used with mud rings up to 3/4" deep (two switches or one recep. max). I try to be aware of how much wire is being stuffed into the boxes. Per everyone's advice, I will definitely verify the box sizes for each location. I appreciate the input! --TJM
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When tying the grounds together in an electrical box, I have been told (per local code) that I must mechanically connect the grounds (versus just twisting them together). Sounds good. I can use wire nuts or "Buchanan caps (copper crimp connectors)", which require a crimp. Two questions....
1) What is preferred, the twist nuts or the crimp caps?
2) What tool is required for crimping the Buchanan caps? I have a tool by Klein called a "Crimping and Cutting Tool, for insulated and non-insulated connectors". Is this the one for the Buchanans?
I like the idea of the Buchanans, as they take up less room -vs- the twist connector. Any ideas? Thanks. --TJM