I would like suggestions for a basement sauna.The room is framed and plan to use Cedar t&g. What should go behind the cedar? I want to keep the heat in,and also stop the heat affecting the floorboards above.It will be a dry sana so I don’t know if moisture will be a problem .
Thanks Gordon
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Replies
Have you thought about just buying one of the kits, complete?
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Edited 10/5/2004 3:20 pm ET by Bob Dylan
We used fiberglass & reflective insulation - works great!
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a sauna is in my future plans... so i read this with interest... foil toward the ceder ie: from the inside go'n out ceder...foil...fiberglass ? what'd you use for a door?... I see the heaters new on ebay all the time for around $500 that say they are good for about 500 cubic ft... does keep'n the ceiling ht down help? any venting? stainless nails? thanks in advance for the info...
p
I found the most amazing book on sauna construction, written by a Finnish architect: 'Finnish Sauna' by Allan Konya. Architectural Press. London, 1987. It is the best resource I have found.
Bob
Do you have a website for this 'kit'?
I've got an area in my new construction I'd like to put a sauna, but its an odd size, so none of the standard 'kits' will fit.
Bruce
I just Googled for "sauna kit" and got plenty of sites with kits. Don't know about any sizes, or custom sizes.
Bruce,
If at all possible, look at what your buying before the purchase. Some of the better plumbing showrooms and larger home shows have kits on display. Pick something that you are fairly sure you will enjoy spending some time in.
Just from what I've heard Finlandia and Finnleo make decent kits. As someone else mentioned, make it big enough for at least 2 to be comfortable.
kestrel
Any experience with any of the available kits? Quality? Ease of assembly?
I agree with the other posts. Just simply use fiberglass insulation.
In the depression of the early 70s, I used to install saunas for a guy that sold them. Most of my installs were one day. I did a 2 day install for Alfred Taubman, the real estate mogul.
Be sure to use only clear cedar because the knots will burn you. We use to put in cedar ceilings and I would cover the concrete floor with a removable cedar floor. I used all hidden fasteners.
Smaller saunas are better. They heat up faster and keep the heat.
I believe (my memory is going) that we used to put a layer of visqueen over the studs before installing the furring. I then installed the 7' vertical wall planks.
I hand pounded everything (galvanized fininh nails) and I would get $250 per each sauana. I never had to go back twice! That was good money then!
I'd do better now with staplers and nail guns.
blue
I'm with Ponytail,
Tell us some more about saunas. Got any tricks for construction or design?
SamT
Hey Sam N Pony...i'm really not an expert on saunas....I just used to do what I was told.
But...keep the ceiling low...you don't want more cubic volume than what is absolutely necessary. One critical element is the door. It MUST swing out. If you swing it in, and pass out, there won't be enough room to open it to get you out. Also, don't put any latch system on it. We just used self closing hinges and added a wood handle.
I vaguely remember building the doors out of the cedar planks, but maybe a door was sent prebuilt. I'm pretty sure they all had a little window.
All the benches were made from cedar 2x4 and 1x4 clear cedar tops.
I don't know which way the foil would go, but I suspect it might be better to use unfaced. Letting moisture in or out is not really an issue. The saunas are extremely dry, until you hit the rocks with the water.
I actually enjoyed doing those little sauna projects. They were easy one day deals and I could work alone.
I used a very basic rough frame (2x4 on 16oc) and then applied a horizontal furr strip 24" oc. I'd run the t&g verticals and put a small 3/4 x 3/4 moulding. I ran a 1/3 at the top and bottom and for door trim. They were very cute.
blueIf you want to read a fancy personal signature... go read someone else's post.
TKS
Is cedar the normal choice for saunas in the US?
I once had the chance to use a Finnish sauna, and
the interior was spruce. Very pleasant, especially
with the little wood-fired heater,which was, of
course, burning birch. The owner had a stack of birch
set aside just for the sauna.
Now, from what I know about MCS and sick houses,
cedar, although it smells nice, is not always a good
choice for interiors, since some people react to the
smell. I would think that heating cedar up in a sauna
would heighten this.
Talking Dog,
I'm with you on cedar. Cedar is great outdoors, or in closets to kill (or is it just repel) living things. I saw one of the little cedar sauna kits, and it did have a very strong cedar smell. While smelling it for a limited time wasn't unpleasant, it's not something I would want to be in for any length of time. I can't imagine anyone using that sauna very often. I would guess the manufacturer was more interested in selling something, than in how good the product was.
Spruce or birch would be pleasant.
kestrel
Kestrel, Birch would be a bad idea. It would get too hot to the touch due to it's density.
blueIf you want to read a fancy personal signature... go read someone else's post.
Hey blue,
Birch logs are one of the traditional building materials for saunas. Largely because of they were readily available, but also because they smell good.
Abachi became popular more recently for benches, headrests and backrests, because it is cooler to the touch. If it's too hot, a towel on the bench works.
kestrel
Around here (Japan) they would probably use Port Orford
cedar, if they were going to put it inside a sauna. This
is the bathroom interior of choice. Port Orford Cedar
reacts very well to steam and humidity, gives off a
wonderful fragrance. However, for some reason, I have never
seen a Japanese sauna with cedar--it's always spruce or
some other similar light wood. Dunno why.
What I liked most about the Finland sauna that I tried was
splashing water on the rocks of the wood fired heating unit.
It seems that whenever I go into a sauna with electric
heating, there is a big sign warning against splashing
water on the heating element, and for good reason. Not
the case with a wood fired Finnish sauna, though.
Splashing water on the rocks is like turbocharging the sauna.
You soon learn very graphically the difference between dry
heat and wet heat.
I knew ofuros are made of Port Orford, but I didn't realize it was used for the bathhouse interior. That's interesting. Are the walls sealed with anything or if it's bare wood?
Splashing water on the rocks is like turbocharging the sauna
Now your making me impatient. We have a nice little wood burner, waiting to be tranformed into the greatest sauna stove - and for the building to go around it.
kestrel
>>I knew ofuros are made of Port Orford, but I didn't realize it was used for the bathhouse interior. That's interesting. Are the walls sealed with anything or if it's bare wood?
Tubs of Port Orford are expensive, and they require skilled maintenance
to keep from going to ruin. Doing the walls is cheaper, and you still
get that cedar smell.
Typically the T&G cedar is run through a surfacer, which is a one-pass
single blade planer that puts a glassy smooth finish on the wood. No
sanding or finishing after that. Then the boards are fastened vertically, often in combination with tile or stone to the level of a
wainscot. This keeps the wood from getting wet. Black slate on the floor. Vewy, vewy nice.
Hey Talking Dog,
Vewy, vewy nice.
Ohhhh, yes. That sounds gorgeous. Thanks for the description.
Is there anything like that one-pass single blade planer available in the US? I'll bet it is pricey.
kestrel
I saw this mentioned in FHB years ago. Some guy had imported
one and called it a "surfacer." It was used for making shavings,
not for what it was intended for (imagine a paper thin shaving
6 inches wide and 10 feet long).
Makita, Hitachi and others make them, and I think a low end one can
be got for a couple thousand.
I think it is a fantastic productivity item _if_ you can get the
customer to accept the idea of raw wood. Think about it--one pass
through the thickness planer, then one through the surfacer and you're
done. No sanding, no filling, no priming, no varnishing. But there is
probably too much cultural resistance to raw wood.
I remember one time when I was building cabinets in Manhattan, and
I had a customer who asked for a raw birch cabinet. I almost got
physically ill at the thought of it. "Ewww, raw wood? Whuddya want dat for?"
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This little baby has a single inch thick blade mounted on the bias.
Blade kinda like a paper cutter in a print shop.
Hi Talking Dog,
That is a tool one would have to have a real need for, but it's nice I'm sure. I can see the resistance to bare wood for the usual kitchen and bath cabinets. But a bath house is another thing all together, either sauna or Japanese bathhouse.
Thank you for the information.
kestrel
Cedar is an excellant choice due to it's light cellular structure. Spruce would also be a good choice. Hardwoods are not a good choice. The denser woods get very hot to the touch and cause pain.
Regarding the smell....I find cedar to have a much pleasanter odor. Spruce is so-so, while hem fir is horrible.
We used a white cedar... I believe it came from the Western states. It may have a milder odor that red cedar. It was much clearer.
blueIf you want to read a fancy personal signature... go read someone else's post.
Gordon,
It will be a dry sana so I don't know if moisture will be a problem .
If you don't have steam, it may be a hot room, but it won't be a sauna. Here's a site with detailed instruction on construction.
http://www.saunasite.com/index-en/engindex.htm
kestrel
Thanks for the site.
You've got that exactly right. A "sauna" isn't a sauna without the steam.
Good link.
Brent
If I wanted steam, I would have built a steam room :)
Thanks for your advice From you and others I get the idea that sheet rock is not needed but one should put insulation, then moisture barrier. then furring strips, then cedar.The living area is above the sauna and when built there would be dead space between the sauna and the floor joists.I am concerned about heat build up there from leaking hot air and radiation.
Gordon,
The living area is above the sauna and when built there would be dead space between the sauna and the floor joists.I am concerned about heat build up there from leaking hot air and radiation.
Why don't you leave the top open. If you look at the sites selling indoor sauna kits, the saunas have a ceiling, and area between that ceiling and the room ceiling is open. Then if that area gets too warm, you could use a small fan to circulate the air. It really shouldn't get too hot if you insulate the sauna ceiling well.
kestrel
The framing already exists; - it's part of the house. The adjacent wall is part of the bathroom. So leaving it open is out of the question. One wall is the exterior wall. Any other suggestions?
VB structural surfaces with aluminum and tape the joints with aluminum AC tape.
If you use a low (7') ceiling in the sauna, use a VB paint on the ceiling above it over a moisture resistant substrate (Green Board?).
SamT
What kind of vapour barrier surface. I like the idea of green board .Why not on the walls too? I read about leaving an air gap between the cedar and the insulation,venting at the top of the board, though for t&g the furring stips would have to go horizontaly, so I havent worked that one out yet!
Gordon,
Can you give us a little more detail on what you have. For instance, the ceiling heights of the sauna and of the basement. You have one wall adjacent to the bathroom, and one on an exterior wall. What is on the other 2 walls?
The exterior wall is great, you can vent the sauna straight outdoors to cool it and remove moisture immediately after you've used it. I'd also suggest a small window to allow you to get fresh air.
In one of your posts you said there will be a dead space between the sauna and floor above. Why not vent that area, either with passive venting of grills in the wall or a powered inline vent such as the one Panasonic makes? If there isn't some release of heat buildup, carefully super insulating seems the best answer. A radiant barrier might help.
You also mentioned a dry sauna in you first message. If you really only want heat, I would think an infrared heat source would create much less ambient heat. (I've never used infrared, so that's just a guess. Check with the manufacturer.)
kestrel
I came across this job as is,with the walls framed and electrical installed. The ceiling height is 7ft and the other walls-one may be retaining and the other could be the corridor or a closet I can't remember.
Gordon,
I was thinking this was your house. In this case, you will probably be fine with insulating it well, being careful with the vapor barrier, and providing venting for the sauna itself.
kestrel
Be sure to make it big enough for two.
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Now I see how the steam will be generated.Les Barrett Quality Construction
I built one recently.
There is steam and water in abundance in my sauna; for my two cents, it's the only way to go. I used fiberglass batt insulation (unfaced) with a paper-backed foil as a vapor barrier on all walls and the ceiling. I used foil because I figured poly would break down somewhat over time, with regular, large temperature swings, from normal room temperature to approaching 200 deg F.
I'm assuming you're going to use an electric stove. Remote controls--ones that you can mount outside of the sauna, as opposed to right on the stove itself--are very nice.
Cedar is a good choice. No knots is best, particularly in the benches and the walls directly behind the benches.
Make the ceiling 7 feet. This will allow the sauna to heat up faster and make it easier to keep it hot. Don't know if it's code or not, but I'd make sure the door swings out, not in. A 6 foot bench will seat three adults reasonably comfortably; a lower bench is nice for people who don' t like the higher temps on the top bench.
A shower or tub between the sauna and the dressing room is a good idea, particularly if you're going to have a dry sauna, since you won't be washing up in the sauna itself.
Brent