I’m starting a marketing campaign that is intended to fill our summer schedule. In our package, we intend to introduce ourselves to the builder. These packages are aimed at cold calls in an upscale market.
Please review my Bio and offer criticisms.
blue
Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information…don’t listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Replies
I suppose I should add the attachment!
I've saved it as a rich text doc. I can resave it in other formats if you request it.
TIA,
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Looks great Blue. I would say "meet or exceed" instead of "meet and exceed." Does the highlighted text refer to pictures? A few pictures of the professional-looking crew and the up-to-date tools might be good.
Mike, excellent point. I'll change the text...assuming that it stays in there at all.
At this time, I'm not planning on getting too involved in pictures of equipment, although that may become a reality.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
a picture would be nice
like a lot of what you say
but what do you mean service ni 24 hours, does that just mean a return phone call or do you start framing within 24 hours of being hired....not being critical, just curious
Isamemon, The service I was reffering to is service calls to fix problems after the completion of the job. Since you were/are confused, I'm going to re-phrase the paragraph to say exactly what I mean so there's no confusion.
This is exactly the type of input I was hoping for.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue,
I don't know if it's just my machine, or what, but there is a layout glitch. See attachment. If you're just going to print and snailmail, it won't be an issue. Electronic delivery is a different case.
Gene and Ben haven't beem with the company long enough to limit their blurb to company history. They sound really weak as is. I'ld suggest finding something in their prior lifes to talk about. In Genes case, his management history, and for Ben, follow the style used in your bio.
You might mention the cummulative years experience in your current crew of journeymen.
We use
up to datethe most effecient air tools available and always have an ample supply ofquality ladders and other miscellaneousall other nescessary tools.Changecourtesy to all visitors:courtesy to all visitors courtesy to all visitors
Hope these suggestions help,
SamT
Sam, I think there is a layout glitch. There aren't any Genes in our company, but I'll rethink Frank and Ben's experience.
Actually, they both have been with me for about 8 years. They are the young muscle behind the "old experienced" guy. I was hoping to make it clear that the nucleus of our crew has been together for many years. Most of the more experienced builders understand the transient nature of the trades and look favorably upon crews that have been together a long time.
I'll revisit their bios and see if I can strengthen them.
The suggestion for the bullets is a good one too.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I would start out with the last section first.What you are going to do for them.Then the bio and equipment that tells then who and how.
I like the fact that the doc hilights the crew first. The crew is what differentiates ACC from all others. Introducing the crew under the heading 'the benefits of stable and experienced crews' speaks loudly to the No. 1 concern of any builder: If I give these guys the job, will quality and schedule suffer because they don't know each other or will scatter due to interpersonal conflict?
The first thing that has to attract the GC/s attention is what they can do for him.And other than the tag line Rough Frame Specialist it does not tell what he does.The first thing is to tell the GC what he can do for him. They show that they cana back that up with bio's and equiment.
The company name and what they do - rough framing - should be emphasized or repeated more in the body of the brochure. My edits to Blue addressed that. Bill, I hear what you're saying, and it makes sense for the reasons you've given. Here's why I believe the order should remain.
The company name appears first, then it says Rough Frame Specialists, then goes on to talk about da boys who do the rough framing. Rough framing is rough framing. Remember that this brochure will be handed to Builders and GCs by guys with calloused hands. But there's lots of framing dudes with calloused hands knocking on GCs' doors. What makes Advanced Construction Concepts framers different? The dudes' backgrounds and beliefs. Which is why it's right to start with the bios.
Edited 1/8/2005 5:11 pm ET by Pierre1
Edited 1/8/2005 5:37 pm ET by Pierre1
Bill, I agree. The message has to explain the benefits, followed by the methods of delivering. If the benefit message is strong enough, the prospect will take the time to read the methology and if stable crews have been an issue...I'll be in the game.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Thanks Pierre1. You have exactly pinpointed the thrust of my presentation. Around here, there are many builders frustrated with crews loaded with unskilled help. I'm just trying to reach one or two high end builders in an upscale part of town. I'll be knocking on doors and meeting them all in the field, but I wanted a written explanation of who we are to re-inforce our verbal conversation after our first contact.
As a carpenter, I think this approach is important..but it's not critical what I think...it's what the GC's and Builders think that needs to take center stage.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Bill...that is a very good suggestion! I just re-heard that exact suggestion in the "How to win Friends and Influence People" cds that I got over the holidays!
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blaw ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It should be a federal offence for you to use the word safe on the same sheet of paper as your resume.
It would take more than that piece of BS for me to consider allowing you to step foot on any of my sites.
ROFLMAO
Gabe
that's just the narrative body , right ?
will this be a 3-fold ?.. you're going to add pictures, contact info ...
do you have a business address ?
what about insurance .. did i miss that ?
how about coordination with other trades.. or isn't that part of the job ?
and do your GC's care about the follow on trades and what they think of your frame ?
how about some numbers ? like McDonalds ..." 500 houses framed to date" Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, you are right on with your questions. I'm attempting to offer a simply worded summary of who/what we are and will have to include that very basic info.
At this time, I don't plan any trifold marketing materials for the wholesale side of our business but we are already starting to create some for the retail side which will be launching this season.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Gabe, I thought it was pretty well established that I would never qualify to work or step foot on your job. I'm very thankful that you bothered to open this trhead and give consideration to my request because that indicates that I'm making progress on my desire to work and apprentice under your watchful guidance. In previous days, there wasn't a shred of hope and now I can joyfully say that there is a tiny ray!
My heart leaps for joy! Thank you oh master.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
blue eyed devil,
Never-ever bind yourself into any legal liabilities by saying you would pay the refilling fees. That is expected of you anyways if it's a question of quality, but what of the changes to structure that are not reflected in the blueprint? Are you willing to refile those as well?
Next, I would scratch the bios. The GC is hiring your company, not your emplyees. Give a bio of yourself and the work you've done instead.
And last, having the current tools needed for the job is expected and assumed, you don't need to mention these things. A GC is looking for efficiency and quality at a reasonable price. That is what you should put first and foremost.
Good luck.
Benchdog, I offer to pay the rough-frame re-inspection fee up to $100 in writing, in the contract. In our localities, many of these re-inspections are free anyways, but occasionally they are $25 for each revisit. In most instances, the inspections are knocked down for a variety of reasons and most often there are three or four items that are not under our control. They might be mechanicals, insulation, etc.
I do occasionally pass on the rough frames on the first try, but normally the inspectors always find something small. In some localities, we intentionally leave out fireblocks in the front stairwell becasue if we don't we'll be in for some very weird "repairs" when the inspector has to knuckle down to find something. Those are the ones that are very tough to do because sometimes they get insane.
I did get five stars and a smiley face once from a loality that "never gives a green tag on the first inspection". Ironically, I was in start up mode and weeded through 32 guys on that one rough! Because of the large volume of new help, I personally inspected and fixed (or directed the fix) of every item in the large custom house.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I would capitolize the "C"s of "construction concepts"
The bios work good- gives a sense that every employee is interested in the welfare of the company, not just a paycheck. The line about air tools and ladders needs rewoding.
I am curious about the 24-hr. service. Is that a lot of your buisness? The rest on the ad gives the impression that you rough houses; the "prompt service" paragraph gives the impression that you moonlight as a plumber.
Getting a logo, letterhead, and a tri-fold might be a good investment.
My $.02
-Stevehttp://www.lukeworks.com
Thanks Steve. The caps idea is right on.
The service I'm talking about is repair service after we've finished the contracts. I'm trying to let the builder know that we actually will service our work after we're paid. That is one reason that every builder that we've ever worked for will welcome us back...they know we do what we say we're going to do, then stand behind our work without the whiny stuff when something needs tweaking.
Quite often, when we are summoned to go back to "fix a problem", it ends up being an extra charge because our work is correct and it's something else causing the ruckas. Either way, the builder needs professional people out there making the call and making him look good to the homeowners...who simply want the problems corrected...they don't care who does it or whether it's their fault!
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue I basically like the piece. I think I disagree with few of the criticisms benchdog had for you so I'll talk about that first. I disagree just slightly where he wrote:
"Never-ever bind yourself into any legal liabilities by saying you would pay the refilling fees. That is expected of you anyways if it's a question of quality, but what of the changes to structure that are not reflected in the blueprint? Are you willing to refile those as well?"
I think saying you'll pay for the re-filing is certainly okay and a good thing to promote in so far as this is just advertising. As for the being "legally bound" part be sure to have the disclaimer in your contract agreement or have it written so that there is no misunderstanding that you paying for re-filing fees is for your mistakes and not due to changes that were not properly filed with the building department (unless you plan to take responsibly for that part of the job too). And make sure your contract has clause like this one from Gary Ransone's The Contractor's Legal Kit: The Complete User-Friendly Legal Guide for Home Builders and Remodelers
That way it's what's written in the agreement that counts and not something implied by your advertising or any statements you may have made.
"Next, I would scratch the bios. The GC is hiring your company, not your emplyees. Give a bio of yourself and the work you've done instead. ".
This I really disagree with. The reality is people don't hire your company, they hire a relationship and a you have relationships with people. The bios are good but even better I would put photos with them provided you and your don't look like John Gacy. In other words make sure the photos look professional and fit in design wise with the advertising piece. Don't use a drivers license mug shot for one guy while the background for another is framed building against a blue sky.
"And last, having the current tools needed for the job is expected and assumed, you don't need to mention these things...."
Yeah ya do. It may be assumed but the reassurance of seeing in the marketing material certainly helps reassure me (as a PM) that you have the equipment to do the job effectively. I don't want to be burned when I find out later you don't even have your own ladders.
"A GC is looking for efficiency and quality at a reasonable price. That is what you should put first and foremost." I don't think price is nearly as big as you may think. #1 as a PM?GC what I am looking for is the working relationship above all else and I am willing to pay more for the better relationship. Efficiency and quality are next on the list and I may even think of a few other things before I get to price. Just don't gouge me.
Now for my own criticisms. Ya know the thing about stairs bothers me.
--"He built his first set of stairs (they were perfect) on the second house that he worked on!"--
but I think you probably knew that from our other talk on that subject. As a GC/PM that has a "division" that does stairs stairs and railing I think rough framed stairs are a quality problem (potential squeaks)and I think they are also actually more expensive than expensive than a shop built and installed stair in that they actually are being handled twice (at rough framing and at finish) rather than just once. And regardless of whether you agree or disagree with that thinking there may be other GCs that are thinking the same way as me. Your problem then is if I think rough carpenter built stairs are a second tier product and I read your promo saying that your guy built a "perfect" set of stairs on his second try out of the gate I say baloney. And that effects how I view everything you say after that. And looking at it another way too that's vain and empty boasting and pure braggadocio. I would find a better way to tell me how great Frank is.
I also hate the use of the term "old school" too. Watching all the bike building shows on the Discovery channel I think the work is sooooo overused and played out it hurts every time I hear it now. Plus as far as rough frame carpentry is concerned I'm not sure I really want "old school" thinking. Or at least if I see "old school" I want to know that there is also a real serious attempt being made to approach and master today's technologies and their supporting techniques. Now that I think of it saying something like or about "timeless craftsmanship" rather than the term "old school" would sit better with me but like I said that may be just me with too much watching the Discovery channel.
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ParadigmProjects.com | Paradigm-360.com | Mac4Construction.com
Edited 1/9/2005 1:10 am ET by Jerrald Hayes
I too was concerned that the 'old school' might leave a stodgy, I-haven't-learned-a-single-thing-since-1978 impresssion. Here's a way to project a old-school quality image while pointing out that the boys have evolved with the times:
As a result, Advanced Construction Concepts delivers “old school†quality through the most up-to-date methods.
I like that up to date comment Pierre1.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Thanks a ton Jerrald.
I totally agree that the stair comments seem impossible..but it's true. I guess it probably had a lot to do with the fact that Frank had just left a job at a tool and die shop where he was working 80 to 100 hours per week for several years and the idea of cutting a set of stringers accurately simply didn't phase him as being anything too complicated...which we both know is correct...expecially when he had a a mentor to steer him in the right dirction (that was me).
Our rough framed stairs are nothing more that drywall frames, covered in carpeting...so it's pretty easy to be "perfect"...but the point you make is well taken and I will certainly change the verbage!
Thanks also for reassuring me that GCS/Builders are all about relationships. Relationships is probably the strong point of our company. All of us are builder friendly and understand that we are in the service business and our service is first and foremost to the immediate supervisor in each sub. I didn't always work that way, but in my old age wisdom, I learned that if I can make the guy in the field happy, everyone will be happy. 90% of the superintendents that we work for/with love us. The other 10% don't like us and we don't like them. Of course, we never do two jobs for that element because usually their jobs are in total disarray...loose ends everywhere, all the trades upset and the super is looking for a scapegoat for his own inefficency and ignorance.
Equipment is also important...this I know because 90% of every contact asks about either cranes or lifts.
Finally, I will be eliminating the "old school" comment. I don't watch the bike shows, but I can see where a better choice of words will better convey the message that I am attempting to portray.
Thanks again.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
am I the only one who can't open that?
I get a weird log on page for Prospero ....
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Jeff does this help, I saved it as a PDF.
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ParadigmProjects.com | Paradigm-360.com | Mac4Construction.com
Jeff, did you get it open yet? I'll post it in any format that you normally work in. I can post it in word, notepad etc.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue,
The content looks good. Here are couple small suggestions.
Like Bill said, I think you need some sort of summary statement at the top telling the potential customer what you can do for them. The info you have a the bottom about courtesy and friendly attitudes are good but I would make them make them more like bullet points with the defining words you have in Bold at the start of each sentence. For example:
Finally, in your BIO you mention your 'old school' mentality you might want to add something to that about being up on the latest building techniques as well. Wouldn't want people to think that you are one of those really 'old school' guys who think that a truss is something you wear for a hernia :)
Regards,
Dennis
DJJ...I like that idea about the bullet points...it just looks good and I probably could eliminate a ton of words using that suggestion.
I think if I use your idea, I may be able to condense this entire document and incorporate it into a one page letter that I could send upon request to any contractor.
Thank you also for suggesting to eliminate that "old school" comment. It is a word that could have negative implications, but I never considered that fact.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue, I just emailed you an edited version of your doc.
I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about with respect to the 24 hour service and so on, so I didn't work on that bit.
Dennis and Mike have raised some useful points. You might consider spending $500 and getting this laid out by a graphic designer. This will show that your company believes in quality in all aspects of its operations. If you're spending $ on a crane, spend it on the design too. Shows that you too are not afraid of hiring quality. Consistency.
Pierre
Edited 1/8/2005 4:36 pm ET by Pierre1
Pierre1, thanks for that email. I did open it and will be scrutinizing it on my re-write.
You're point about spending the money for the professional presentation makes sense. I think we will go in that direction even if we don't publish a glossy brochure. I think I'll create something that the builder might be inclined (or at least able) to deliver to his prospective clients.
On second thought this might confuse the intent of the message...I'll have to dwell on this...
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
As a GC, I need to know what your insurance coverage is and if you carry your own workman's comp.
I also want the brochure hand delivered by the foreman whom I would work with. Attitude means a lot to me and that can't be put on paper. I need to see if your company is just looking for work or are you approaching me because working for me benefits BOTH of us.
Matt, you are the skeptical GC/builder that I'm trying to reach! I can tell you've been burned a few times and don't trust the trades.
At this time, we are only the one crew...when you hire us, you get me..part time, and Frank. We basically promise that one of us will be there at all times supervising and working on the job from start till finish.
The insurance suggestion is a good one. I'll be sure to include some statement about it.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
On the contrary, I've never been burnt (Knock on wood!), but I've seen it happen a thousand times. We all have. If you can assure the contractor that ALL your ducks are in a row, and you can do that in about three minutes, he will remember you when the time comes to select a framer.I'm telling you, that piece of paper your handing the GC is going right into his back pocket. Even if he reads it, he's gonna forget 80% of it in five minutes. You better be ready to impress with your actions and words. It wouldn't hurt to offer to let him inspect your work on a recent job.
Blue,
I see a lot of features but not many benefits. It's great that you guys supply heavy equipment but what does that do for the builder? I'm guessing it saves him costs so remind him of why that's a good thing.
I think you should have some nice pics, well laid out graphics, etc. that really make you stand out to the receiver. They probably get a lot of these cold calls so you want to jump right to the top.
Jon Blakemore
Wow!
I am very thankful for all your comments and suggestions. It's now very late....and I can't possibly digest everything, but I promise that I will carefully evaluate every comment and suggestion and reply as necessary.
Heres a coupla of generic comments to clear up some of the confusion.
The Bio is just one piece that I intended to send as a package to anyone that I make contact with. The formatting on my computer is fine and it looks good, but it might get weird when its opened in your computers. I think I have good copies in Rich Text and a WPS (works).
My intention was to start with a letter directed at the particular builder and then include this piece to explain the size and scope of our crews and equipment. I don't intend to include pictures or a glossy brochure or anything more than the letter, the bio and some references. I'm relatively sure that after I offer the reference sheet with some basic facts about what we'ver framed, most builders/gcs will have a pretty good idea that we can frame their stuff, since I'll be talking about working for some well known Metro Detroit area builders.
The service misunderstanding might not be a misunderstanding in our locality. When I mention service to builders, they understand it to mean doing repairs, or making changes requested by the homeowners, or fixing something that another trade has ruined. Basically, I'm trying to let the builder know that after we get the house standing, if he needs us to come back, we get there the next day to do whatever, unless it needs to be done faster. We'll drop everything and go there right now if theres a true emergency. I've always authorized all my employees to jump when a superintendent aks for something/anything.
Like I said, I'll be carefully reviewing every comment (except Gabe's of course) tomorrow. I'm extremely thankful that everyone took the time to offer their suggestions.
Thank you,
Blue
ps Gabe, I'll try to work safer so that you can quit worrying so much about me. Thanks for caring. You might want to look into that rafter cutting thread. They're showing a picture of a weird looking saw with an extremely aggressive blade and no guard on two sides! There ain't no way in the world that I'd ever allow anything that unsafe on MY JOB...but I wouldn't go around trying to insult that guy either.....you might send in some reports to the top brass here to get that post yanked...you never know....Taunton might get sued...remember?
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I think it's pretty good. Seems that there are 2 things that you might want to emphasize though to drive your point home:
1. You can do it faster, better and less expensive then the GC can without you. (as for less expensive, the time savings of a dedicated crew of pros who only do rough framing, with no need to redo, compensates for what may be a higher up front cost. It's always less expensive to get it right the first time).
2. You will make the GC look good. (a simple tag line at the bottom should do.)
Bottom line, these are the 2 things anybody wants out of a sub.
Good points SHG. Thank you.
I normally try to include both of those ideas in my first meeting with any GC/builder. I'll figure out a way to include both ideas in the re-write.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Builders/GC's:please critique this.
I'm sorry Booger, as one of the very few Builders/GC's on this site, I thought you wanted me to comment.
I have a garbage can beside my desk that is there just for sales brochures, cookie cutter resumes from laborers, etc. and for intros like yours.
You see Booger, as a Builder/GC, I already know all the good trades, tradesmen and suppliers in my area.
When I want one specific trade, tradesman or supplier, I get him or her and if they're working somewhere else, I'll steal them away.
If a new trade shows up that I haven't worked with before, I'll ask him or her for the name of the last GC they worked for and their contact there. One or two phone calls to my contacts will give me all the info I need to either call him or put his number into the garbage can.
Good GC's don't buy a pig in a poke and the reason they get to be good GC's is because they know their market and their people.
We both know that if your were half as good as you think you are, your phone would be ringing off the hook. But we both know that repeat customers are not your forte. Hence you have to cruise the unknown for customers.
Any GC that would sign a contract with you based on that piece of paper, you should ask for payment up front.
Next time Booger, if you don't want the truth, don't ask.
Gabe
Gabe believe it or not, I can see some truth in your ugly vile post and can actually learn something from you.
If you're receiving a lot of unsolicited ads from trades, I would expect you to have some sort of filing system and I'm sure it's quite wise to file a lot of stuff directly into the trash can. However, I don't intend to send any information to anyone unsolicited. In most cases, I will be sending this information as a followup to an onsite and personal interview. Contrary to your misguided thinking, I'm not the only one being interviewed. In fact, one of the primary goals that I have is to understand when I meet with new contacts is the question of compatibility. I've been exposed to a wide variety of superintendents and I can smoke out those that see themselves as bigger than the trades that work with them. I would most certainly sense that about you, because your vile attitude toward others is impossible to hide in your questions as well as your attitude. As a result of your demeanor, which cannot possibly re-invent itself at your bidding, I highly doubt that you would receive anything from me, exept the beautiful picture of my hiny leaving your dingy trailer.
Thanks for pointing out that some GCS' think they can "steal" other trades. I find that comment comical because I have turned down guys like you on many occasions after I have worked for you once or twice. You think that your promise to "keep me busy" holds a lot of weight but if I had a nickel for every time I heard that one, I'd own the company that you are enslaved too.
Regards my vile northern friend. Thanks for attempting to poison a thread that offers so much good solid marketing information for me as well as any of the others that may be considering a marketing campaign. You're true nature continues to manifest itself.
God Bless your Queen.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I highly doubt that you would receive anything from me, exept the beautiful picture of my hiny leaving your dingy trailer.
ROFLMAO
Funny Booger, I can't even see your hiny making it into the front door. Only professionals work this circuit, hacks don't even have a chance to step out of their trucks.
In less than 3 1/2 months, you have posted about 2,500 posts about yourself and your gifts to mankind. How you can pile BS that high and not have it fall is a credit to your kind.
You suck more people in than any government agency in the country. Whoever said that you can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time never had you in the equation.
You sure are a laugh producing machine.
Gabe
What can I say Gabe...I have a lot to offer...and the best thing is...I'm re-directing everyone to the one and only true carpenter expert in North America...drum rolls please.....YOU!
I just wish that I could measure up some day and have the pleasure of apprenticeing for you. I would gladly labor dilligently day and night and I'll even put a guard on my saw if you ever let me cut the bigger scrap into smaller scrap.
By the way, did you ever get that other dangerous character straightened out in the gang rafter cutting thread? Can you believe that someone would actually think that they could use a saw so dangerous?
Thanks for all your help on this topic...I'm sure the newbies will learn alot from your offereings!
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I just wish that I could measure up some day and have the pleasure of apprenticeing for you.
Sorry, I'm an atheist so I don't believe in miracles. Besides there isn't a hardhat in Canada that would be big enough to protect that ego of yours.
Maybe you should contact the USC program specialist first before offering yourself to any apprentiship program, I undestand one of their brilliant scientist claims to have taught an orangutan to speak quiet a vocabulary. If they can do that, surely they can teach you to walk erect and not soil your pants.
Give it a shot, you've nothing to lose and you will be a better man er whatever in the end.
Gabe
ROFLMAO
This exchange has been wonderful Gabe..thank you. I've missed you deeply...and I can tell that you missed conversing with me to. I was actually flattered that you would bother to research my postings and actually figured out that I've posted many thousands of times..
You're obsession and jealously are betraying you.
If you ever want to learn how to hack stuff up and build awful houses..come and see me...I'm sure I can thoroghly disgust you in one sitting!
blue
ps Seriously, thanks for your interest...we all want to be loved.Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
If you ever want to learn how to hack stuff up and build awful houses..come and see me...I'm sure I can thoroghly disgust you in one sitting!
blue
Thanks for the offer and you're to be commended for your honesty, but hacking is not a learned trade it's an aquired trait. One that you seem to have an over abundance of and you seem to have accepted as your station in life. So once again, thanks but nooooooooo thanks.
Gabe
Gabe I hope you feel better now. I'm sure dishing out your ten posts of hatred and vile makes you feel better, or you wouldn't bother because I'm sure you must know by now that there isn't anything that you could ever say to me, or about me that would bother me, because for that to happen, I would have to care, and/or respect your opinion.
Anyways, I did take a few moments to think about you on my hour drive to work this morning. I thought about how angry you are about me and wondered "why would/could anyone get so upset about someone like me, who lives a thousand miles away and will never, ever build anything for you or anyone you know." I also wondered what it is like to live a life hating and being so angry about things. It truly must be an awful burden and I thank the good lord that I'm not that angry at anyone or anything....life is too short to get upset at me, just because I work with different tools and a differnt mindset.
Have you considered anger management classes? If classes are too burdensome, maybe I could suggest a book or two. If I was carrying around so much hate, I'd start by reading "Toxic People". In that book, you'll learn how to deal with people that are toxic to you...as I am. The author actually has four different levels of dealing with the toxic people that invade your life and if the first three don't work, the ultimate fix is avoidance. I'm pretty sure that this will be the fix that you will have to adopt for our relationship....if you never read another post of mine, you'll be much happier.
Anyways, thanks for being so interested in me.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I did take a few moments to think about you on my hour drive to work this morning.
There's another difference between us Booger. I've got 4 different projects on the go at the same time and I don't have time to waste thinking about you at work.
You're kinda like a play project. Something you work on that isn't worth much. You spend almost 3000 post telling people how great you are and I spend a few reminding them that you're a danger to yourself and your crew. You are what most of us consider a make work project. You screw up the houses and someone gets paid to fix em.
Still ROFLMAO.........keep up the good work, you're keeping me in stitches.
Gabe
Edited 1/10/2005 7:42 pm ET by GABE_MARTEL
GAbe, you win. You got the best of me. Your wittiness continues to astound me. I'd hang my head in shame, but there's no shame losing a war to a champion like you.
By the way, why don't you elaborate a little about those four jobs. I know my one little house won't be a match for your projects...but then again, I've never represented myself to be anything more than a rough....and I mean reeeeel rough, framer.
What are you working on now...a hospital, university, maybe a nuclear plant?
Are you sure you don't have any room for me in you scrap pile disposal crew?
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Are you sure you don't have any room for me in you scrap pile disposal crew?
NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gabe
Gabe, I think it's time that we simply agree that we disagree. There is nothing to be gained by childishly trading insults....and I know you are excellent at it, I'm not slouch...but it's not something I really care to engage in.
I'd also like to point out that you had an opportunity to offer some valuable insight...not only to me, but to any trade that might be considering a marketing campaign similar to one that I'm contemplating. I'm curious about why you would choose to personalize an attack, rather than to offer some serious information. My guess is that you are not actually in a positioin that does the hiring, so instead of offering your perspective from the capacity in which you work, you chose to simply toss in your personal vitriol...I guess just to attempt to aggravate me. Or, maybe your just the kind of person that likes to be disrupitve, mean spirited and just generally anti-social. I really don't know who or what you are, but there must be a motive.
Your statement "You spend almost 3000 post telling people how great you are and I spend a few reminding them that you're a danger to yourself and your crew." is nothing more than a lame rationalization. If I'm truly a danger to myself and my crew, I'm sure you could have said that in a more direct way. I'm sure "all the guys" can figure out how dangerous I am without your help...or do you think you're the only one clever enough to figure me out?!
If you really wanted to debate the statement about safety, you could have done it in a more mature manner...in a way that would add something to this thread and this site.
Why don't you do yourself and all the serious readers a favor and simply limit your contributions to something dignified and meaningful. I'm sure this site would be much better off without this ridiculous bickering about nothing.
Your buddy from the south.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Actually I did submit an insight into the reality of submissions by subs and suppliers but you were too busy kissing your own butt to notice.
I have a garbage can beside my desk that is there just for sales brochures, cookie cutter resumes from laborers, etc. and for intros like yours.
You see Booger, as a Builder/GC, I already know all the good trades, tradesmen and suppliers in my area.
When I want one specific trade, tradesman or supplier, I get him or her and if they're working somewhere else, I'll steal them away.
If a new trade shows up that I haven't worked with before, I'll ask him or her for the name of the last GC they worked for and their contact there. One or two phone calls to my contacts will give me all the info I need to either call him or put his number into the garbage can.
Good GC's don't buy a pig in a poke and the reason they get to be good GC's is because they know their market and their people.
We both know that if your were half as good as you think you are, your phone would be ringing off the hook. But we both know that repeat customers are not your forte. Hence you have to cruise the unknown for customers.
Any GC that would sign a contract with you based on that piece of paper, you should ask for payment up front.
Next time Booger, if you don't want the truth, don't ask.
Gabe
Gabe, I re-read your "garbage can idea" and can only conclude that you must operate in a much smaller community than I do. You could not possibly know all the good trades in our area becaue there are probably ten thousand different subcontractors in the NW quadrant of the metro detroit area alone. Only a ego maniac would seriously believe that he knows everyone!
IF you ever want to discuss anything in a serious tone, I stand ready to converse. I would suggest before we do, that you outline your present position, work history and training that qualifies you for your offerings. I'm beginning to doubt that you have any credible work history at all based on your recent posts. I haven't seen any threads by you posting pics or any techniques, so I'm hesitant to take any of your advice except with a grain of salt. Of course, if you start posting anything more than political drivel or jokes, I'll be the first one to step up and give you credit.
Looking forward to more meaningful exchanges,
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
If you would have stayed with this board instead of leaving in a huff, insulting taunton press on your way out, you would have seen a snapshot of some of my work.View Image
If you knew where Ottawa was as listed in my bio, you would know that I don't come from a small market area. Actually my area includes all of eastern ontario, which is considerably larger than your area of work.View Image
No sense listing my qualifications to you, you wouldn't be able to interpret them or have any appreciation for them.
So Booger, ROFLMAO
Gabe
Edited 1/12/2005 6:28 pm ET by GABE_MARTEL
No sense listing my qualifications to you, you wouldn't be able to interpret them or have any appreciation for them
Just as I thought....no current or past qualifications to speak of. Well, I guess that ends any hope of having meaningful dialogue.
blue
ps nice mapquest pics. I suppose I should show the entire state of michigan for my mapquest area becaue I've worked from Mackinaw to Traverse City, to AuSable to the Detroit area. Size important....are there more people in Ottawa than in Metro Detroit? Sorry about never looking into your bio...I just thought if you were proud of what you have accomplished, you'd share it with us. I'd go back into the archives, but it's my understanding that the previous superior internet hosting deleted all the posts...which really is ancient history anyways.
Pss Sorry about getting you so upset on my last departure...I'll try to do better on my next one...thanks for the advice...I knew you had something positive to offer.Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Size important
Yes it is. Take all the lumber you have ever used in your entire life and it would fit inside any one of the buildings that I have built on just that one photo. Then you take that photo and multiply it by 20 and you would have my portfolio.
Booger, you can only look at the sears tower, I can build it.
ROFLMAO
Gabe
Hmmmmm, still dodging the basic questions....you haven't shown any pics, haven't given any current status of employment, haven't offered any title or responsibilities....the only thing you are offering is big broad statments with no backing.
I'm guessing you could possibly be unemployed...downsized...retired?
Gabe, I'm willing to give you the proper credit that you deserve...I'm still waiting to hear about your actual skills and training and work history.
You mentioned the Sears Tower...that strikes me as kindof an oddball statement...The Tower is in Chicago, which is a long drive from Ottawa. How long did it take you to drive there every day? Did you commute daily, or did you sleep in the tool shed? What exactly did you do to "build it". Did you lay the foundation, install the steel, hang the drywall? Maybe your an elevator rigger?
Cmon Gabe...the suspense is too much.
blue
ps Please post some pics of your days building that Sears Tower.......I'm sure it will make an impressive thread!
pss What does ROFLMA mean? You keep mis-spelling that word and that's uncharacteristic of you.Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
I've finally figured it out.
You can't read, can you?
Here I was thinking that you were just another idiot but no............you just can't read.
You ask to see a picture of my work, I post one showing 3 buildings in the same block and you see the picture but you can't read the print on them.
You ask to see the area that I work and I post a clear picture of eastern ontario and list some of the towns that I have done work in or around.
I make a comment that you could only look at the sears tower whereas I could build it and right away you misread it to state that I had actually built it.
If you can't read simple statements there's no way on earth you could ever understand or appreciate my qualifications.
So which is it, can you read or are you just an ..............
Gabe
Actually Gabe, I can read as good as any school child.
I noticed that you posted a couple of pictures, but the dialogue only ranted about how upset you were with me because of the way I 'huffed' off or some other nonsense. I suppose if you actually posted some sensible explanations instead of your emotional drivel, idiots like me could make sense of your posts.
Okay...now were getting somewhere...this is good...we're actually conversing in a somewhat dysfunctional manner...kinda like the know-it-all big brother (you) sneering half thoughts and sentences at the innocent kid brother(me). That's okay..if this is how we're going to converse...I can live with that.
So...tell me exactly, what did you build in those buildings? Did you spin the tie wires on the re-rod? Did you screw the metal studs? Did you perhaps install all the mirrors?
Also, please tell me about your supervisors. Please start with your immediate supervisor and lead me up to the chain to the top. I'm just trying to understand what you do, so please don't get all fired up and lambast me for being interested in you and your capabilities.
Wow...this is finally getting interesting.
And...sorry about misreading your Sears Tower statement. I admit, that was a foolish mistake. After I went back and re-read it, I realized that you mentioned that I couldn't build it, but could only look at it. I'm not sure if that is a correct statement. I'm actually pretty good at reading blueprints and fairly competent about actually installing all the various components that go into a building like that. Aside from the Skyscraper Builder License that may, or may not exist in Illinois, I think I'm actually well qualified to build one of those buildings. What exactly is it about building those towers that makes you think that I can only look at it?
So....exactly how big is Eastern Ottowa...I'm trying to figure out if my Michigan area is bigger or has more population...which still wouldn't qualify me as being any better or worse than you, but I'm curious about your travel arrangements when you work great distances from home...me...I like to stay within 45 minutes.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
I think I'm actually well qualified to build one of those buildings.
Blah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha You kill me with your jokes.
You can't even write a single page introductory letter without crying for help and you think that you would be able to handle building anything larger than a stick house. You have more in common with a gnat's brain than you do with a ICI site.
Gabe
Well Gabe....I'm glad that I'm able to sweeten your disposition. A good laugh can certainly do you no harm...in fact if you start laughing a bit more, all the sourness may very well leave your body as well as you spirit.
Which qualification do you think I lack...besides money?
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Which qualification do you think I lack...besides money?
Given the available space, it would be impossible to list all of the qualifications you require so I will endeavour to list all of your actual ICI qualifications.
NONE! ZIP! NATA! NIET! ZILCH!
You have to appreciate and of course you don't, you can't build ICI on Bovine Feces. Unfortunately you actually have to know something other than how to wear your baseball cap backwards.
ROFLMAO
Gabe
Gabe, I don't wear a baseball cap, and my hat only goes on one way. I guess that's a good reason for me to buy one like that.
I do think I could build a Sears Tower though, there really isn't anything to complicated about commercial buildings. I've worked on a few and I never really thought it was that challenging...maybe a little (actually a lot) boring, but really, how hard is it to hang out in a trailer and let all the subs build the building?
I am curious about what your specific job title and description are. I'm guessing that you arn't skilled trades, but aren't top level administration either. Keep in mind, that either way, I'm sure you're actually doing something and it probably is something your good at and like to do. That is good for you. I believe that everyone should do the things that they like to do and that usually makes them good at it.
I wouldn't be a very good Sears Tower builder because commercial construction bores me to tears, but I certainly can understand it from an economic point of view. In fact, I'm considering putting together an investor group right now to build a building in the Southwestern part of the United States. The project could be bigger than the Sears Tower but we have some real concerns about possible political impacts.
I'd like to discuss more about the financial aspects of a project like this but US Securities laws prevents it.
I'm really impressed that we have finally buried the hatchett. I'm actually beginning to like you more and more. I'm sorry I ever had ill feelings toward you.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
how hard is it to hang out in a trailer and let all the subs build the building?
When one of the subs comes into that trailer with a question, the guy inside had better have an answer. When two of them come inside that trailer, the guy inside had better make a decision and have the balls to support it. When ten of them come inside that trailer, the guy inside had better have balls,control and make faster decisions.
BTW don't bother burying that hatchet, my opinion of you is the same as it was years ago. DF
Gabe
I know what you mean about having the answers when the subs come into the trailer ...because I've walked into the trailer seeking answers many times...and many times walked out without the answer! In fact, in most cases, when I walk into the trailer seeking the answers, I really don't expect the answers to be forthcoming...and when the questions are answered, I really don't believe I've received the correct answer..and I'm usually correct about them giving me the incorrect answers!
Gosh, this is so much better being your friend! I checked the milage...were only about 400 miles apart...maybe we could set up a luncheon date....I'll let you buy, if you'll fly!
By the way, was I correct in my assumptions about your level in the company that employs you?
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
By the way, was I correct in my assumptions about your level in the company that employs you?
Wrong again Booger!
That shouldn't surprise anyone, your lack of clues qualifies you for the clueless award of the year.
Told ya that it would be over your head. Think I'll print out your posts for the guys at work tomorrow. It's been a hard week and they certainly need a laugh and they would enjoy a baffoon like you.
Gabe
Can't hardly wait till tomorrow.
Come on Gabe, please tell me more about your role in the office tower biz. I looked up the Canadian Construction Association site and sure 'nuff, that Gold Seal certification is the real McCoy.
Gabe and Blue: When I was a kid I marvelled at anything to do with building, whether 20 stories high or a simple bungalow. I got started building forts, from site scraps and dropped nails. When I got older, I'd sneak onto the sites, not for nails, but to see how they put it all together. The excavation, retaining walls and footings stage on a big tower were fascinating. Pretty cool when they haul up the last fill from the truck ramp, then use a crane to haul out the last hoe. Concrete forming a floor on a big tower seems like serious ####. Forget to frame a void, or forget a staircase, forget some steel, and you're up the proverbial creek. I guess mistakes happen, but they're expensive to fix.
Gabe, you're a concrete expert, right? How did you get the building bug?
Truth be told, I have a hunch both you lads would have a blast building something together. Maybe start with a National Defense contract, building an explosives bunker. ;) Probably even become friends given the chance.
Carry on.
Gabe, you're a concrete expert, right? How did you get the building bug?
3rd generation, born into it, never thought of doing anything else in life, feel sorry for anyone who isn't in the trade. We come, we build, we leave.
Pet peeve............incompetence................Boogers.
Gabe
Thanks. Do you remember what happened the day you realized that you can't stand incompetence? Were you starting out in the construction business then and you saw other workers get badly hurt?
those two have gotta be the good guy / bad guy routine...
it's a set up...
just haven't figured out which is who...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Maybe they're both bad .... or both good.
Probably the latter.
Clash of Titans.
I'm trying to encourage Gabe to de-cloak a bit. I hope he won't mind. ;)
are we gonna find him wearing thaoes purple tights if he de-cloaks???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Not a chance. I'm sure he's not a purple tights kind of guy.
so what color do you suppose...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Gin and Tonic
Pierre, my dear friend Gabe and I would have a hard time finishing anything. As soon as I pulled my saw out of the truck, he would look at it and faint. When he woke up, he'd call OSHA because he'd be so worried about his new buddy hurtin' himself.
If Gabe wants to come to Michigan and learn how to frame a residence, in residential real time...not old fart take forever time, I'll be glad to let him work on our crew...provided he lets me fix his saw and make it a man's saw.
Oh yeah...tell him to leave that girly girl speed square up there in Greenland...or Ottawa.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Greenland? It's all white here. And minus minus.
Yeah, I saw that man's saw a few weeks back. That saw was wearing a miniskirt if I remember well. It gave Sysop a rise .... err, attacked his sensibilities, so whole thread was nuked!
Gabe, I imagine you must be a member of the OCA. I'm not familiar with the new projects in Kanata, but remember when many of downtown Ottawa's big office bldgs were put up. Did you superintend projects like the Journal Towers, Place Bell, the Royal Bank Ctr., the PSAC bldg, l'Esplanade Laurier, the Arts Centre? Others?
Gabe, I imagine you must be a member of the OCA.
No but I am registered with the CCA under the Gold Seal Certification and yes the City is dotted with my buildings including renovations at the parliament buildings.
Gabe
By the way, did you ever get that other dangerous character straightened out in the gang rafter cutting thread? Can you believe that someone would actually think that they could use a saw so dangerous?
eh was that me?
Next week I'll be cutting a 6-12 roof and will post pics of me cutting it with a chainsaw and I'll be in my underwear!!!!!!!!!!!!
Calm down, I was just kidding :-)
Tim...about that underwear thing....according to OSHA regulation 17B, section 5C, paragraph 23e....
"...the gang cutting of rafter stock, with an unguarded chainsaw, shall be prohibited if the wood mechanic is wearing only underwear except in the event that he is wearing tighty whiteys...additionally, the wearing of g-strings shall be approved provided that no loose or dangling items are attached."
From my understanding, the loose boxer shorts will result in serious fines....so don't do it unless your wearing your briefest of briefs. I think the g-string limitations are fairly stringent and I wouldn't suggest wearing anything like you normally wear in the clubs while you work your nite job.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Blue, ever heard of Tex Cobb? Boxer who was known for his ability to take a punch from almost anyone and not fall down, and could do so over and over. You two must be related. DanT
Dan, no, I never heard of Tex Cob. I do remember a heavyweight fighter that was using the tactic of sticking his face out to get punched. I swear the took a pounding for about 11 rounds and the ref finally called it. Over the noise, we could hear the fighter complaining "....but ref, I was finally wearing him down...". The guys face was swollen shut but he was serious!
When I coached Soccer, the players that I loved the most were those that could take all kinds of abuse, mental and physical and just keep their noses to the grindstone.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Larry Holmes W15 Randall "Tex" Cobb -1982 WBC Heavyweight Title.Larry Holmes used his face as a punching bag and Tex Cobb let him. Tex must have watched Rocky to many times but Larry hit him with everything and he took it. He was one tuff son of #####.He's been in a lot of movies. He was in Raising Arizona with Nicholas Cage and John Goodman also Ace Venturo. He's a big guy with curly hair and he was also in one of my favorite movies called "Uncommon Valor". He kicks Patrick Swaze's A$$ but a great movie.http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002012/
Edited 1/14/2005 8:21 pm ET by Framer
Randall "Tex" Cobb isn't that big. He lives (or lived) here in Nashville, and I've been in his presence at the gym. Seems to be a fairly quiet guy. Nonetheless, I wouldn't want to scrap with him.
I thought he was about 6' 2". He was never muscular or anything but I thought he was tall. He definitely doesn't have a pretty face.I'll bet Blue's face is prettier....................;-)Joe Carola
Framer, I'm thinking about a guy maybe Waepner? This guys face was kinda flat..maybe concave...I dont' think the other guys glove could get in to hurt him.
It wasn't a Larry Holmes fight...it was long before Holmes was fighting.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Remember in the 13th Larry actually took a couple of steps back after throwing about a 7 punch flurry, dropped his hands and stared as if to ask "man, what have I got to do to get rid of this guy". He never did. DanT
I don't remember if it was the 13th but I do remember him stepping back after hitting him with like 900 shots and Cobb not going down and Larry's face standing there in disbelief that he wouldn't go down. I also remember me and all my friends saying that we couldn't believe he was still up also the announcers. He was kind of like a bigger version of Arturo Gatty.Joe Carola
Jon, this is not going to be a cold call letter. I will be sending this as a followup to any in the field contacts or phone requests.
My goal is to solidify our company as a "qualified" bidder on large custom homes in an upscale neighborhood that is currently dramatically rebuilding itself. They are tearing down post war bungalows and filling the postage sized lots with massive/maximum sized neo traditional custom homes.
The equipment issue just puts us as equals to anything that the builders are already used to seeing. It really doesn't need explaining..they understand that the guys with the equipment do it faster...not necessarily better.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue ,
Couple of things . Loose the part about inspections , don't even bring it up . Stress your strong points , tell them more of what you have done . From small to large. Add pics . Your right about a clean site , to me that goes a long way . Also mention safety . Marketing is the way to go . Everything else looks great to me . Good luck !
Mike Foxboro , Mass.
Thanks bean for your suggestions. I'm going to streamline the document and I may very well drop the inspection clause.
I think the clean site is especially important in the area that I'm targetting. The area is an established highend neighborhood that is doing teardowns and rebuilds.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I read your advert and although I didn't read all the responses, here are my thoughts:
Suggest you simply say that you guarantee the passing of framing inspections - the fact that you will pay for a rejected inspection is implied by the word guarantee, and it may also protect you from things outside of your control like when the plumber hacks a floor joist. Talking about rejections introduces negative connotations.
You might want to change the wording of the "24 hour service" to "one business day", unless you want to be working on Sunday... on small count items.
You may want to add something about competitive rates or something similar. Lets face it: money is on every business man's mind.
Matt, I appreciate the followup.
As a matter of fact, if a plumber hacks up a floor joist, it probably is my fault and I normally do all of the work to fix the situation without charge to anyone. I accept the fact that I put a joist in the area of the stool. If the plumber has changed the location of the stool, then I submit an invoice. I don't require written authorization before doing the work because our relationships with site supers are personal and we understand that he can't be running to the trailer to write up every small request...but we also expect to get paid for services rendered that warrant it.
If we find out that the builder or super is less than honorable, we terminate our relationship and cut our losses while they are miniscule. Experience has taught me that if they'll cheat you out of a one hour $75 service bill, they'll cheat you out of a $7500 final payment.
Your suggestion that I change my wording to avoid working on Sundays is not necessary because we'lll give emergency service 24/7/365. We'll put someone to work on Christmas morning if it's a true emergency...even if I have to go there myself.
The competitive rate clause actually works against my basic marketing strategy. I don't want to give anyone the idea that I work for competitive rates because I know I'm not competitive with the lower tiered price cutters. I'd rather mention that I offer a premium service at a small upcharge that actually saves them money, then go about proving my statement. As such, I leave the subject of money out of it, because if we have a fit regarding services, the issue of money will eventually get negotiated.
Thanks again,
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Paying for the reinspection fee if you screw up, is that a new concept for you?
sorry, you asked for critique
I wouldnt put any emphasis at all obout the possibility there is going to be a need for a reinspection
Edited 1/10/2005 9:52 am ET by maverick
Mav, I don't know of any framers that pay re-inspection fees. My offer to do that separates me from the pack in just that little way.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Blue,
You may have this covered all ready, but I rate job site identification of your company the strongest calling card for you.
By this I mean your company name (and preferably in a logo) on all your equipment, on a job sign out front and on your truck. Your Sky Trac and crane should be especially well marked to set you apart from framers that don't have this equipment.
No better advertising of your abilities than a GC to be able to see your work.
Builders, as a rule, spend a fair amount of their time rubber-necking other jobs.
Terry
Blue:
I’m a home builder (I hang out at JLC), and I receive dozens of letters/faxes from subs every year. The absolute one thing that makes me take notice, is when I see a list of other builders that sub works for, AND those builders are my competitors or builders I would consider “eliteâ€. Framer sends me a letter/resume, and I see that they work for builders I respect and consider my equal or greater, I put them on my “A†list. In fact, just hired one to frame a house my regular guy couldn't get to.
Allan
Gabe and blue just keep me in 'slap the hand on the desk' guffaws around here! Too funny.
Sure beats watching the tube.
More! More!
I was just about to tell 'em to cut it out allready................
The world may stop turning!
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
Allan, that is a very excellent offering....and it's so obvious! It's so surprising to me because I've never looked at it in that way, but I can see the power in that approach.
When were talking in the field, I always end up taking about the names of different builders that Ive worked for, and it definitly tells the prospect a lot about what style of house I'm capable of...but I've never quite thought about it in the way you presented it.
Thanks for a million dollar tip!
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Thanks TLE...I do have the trucks lettered/logo-ed but the Sky Trak still says Sky Trak. I mentioned that to Frank the other day...we're advertising for Sky Trak instead our ourselves!
And you're right about builders rubbernecking....but they don't do it at this time of the year. They swarm like bees in the spring when they have ten or 15 houses lined up and are looking for extra trades...of course everyone is too busy then!
We do invite builders to come and check out our current running jobs, as well as anything standing that they can look at. ONly the most discerning builders ever do this, but each time I've had a builder come and look, I've landed the job. I actully prefer that they do a walk through on something that we have. That way, if they want things different (like bridging, blocking, stair systems, etc) we can work it out before we do their work.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Hey Blue. I'm not a Builder or GC, but since advertising and design are a part of my resume I thought I would chime in.
In short, that is a well thought out piece of work. You mastered the first rule of graphic design by keeping it simple. Visually this is a very effective layout. Short of doing a full color professionally design piece, you can't get much better.
I wish I could convince some of my clients to keep things as simple as that which you have done.
I'll let the industry pros comment on the content, but you hit the nail on the head with the layout.
Thanks for the encouragement Pino. I got a ton of help from the guys in here so the credit goes to them.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Blue, the only thing I would mention that the others haven't is safety. I don't see anything in your paper about what safe workers you and your men are. Do you have safety meetings? Do you get discounts on your insurance for a safe work record? Those are things you could mention, but you can also throw in things like " in a safe manner," or "with constant regard to safety," things like that. They fact you don't mention it makes me think you might not have a safety program in effect, or give it much thought.
Allen, I originally had some safety words in the document, but I lost it in the revisions.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!