From a builders perspective, what are your plusses and minus for using either? If you have a decent size job.
Cost?
Quality of supplies?
Delivery?
etc
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Knowing what they have on the shelves I think is useful. There are Saturdays when I need something and the regular places might not be open, and homeowners window shop at the box stores much more than a lumber yard. They can compete on cost, which is good if you can confirm that the drill you want is not substantially different than the same thing a mile away and $30 more. I don't think the lumber quality is as good, certainly not at Menards.
What the yards like 84 have going for them - service. Charge accounts, delivery, free take offs. You have a rep assigned to you who usually has at least a cursory knowlege of the project you're on, and when you call and say hey I need X, they can get it on a truck and out to you.
Every once in awhile I buy DW at a box - I'm patching or repairing, I need one sheet. But carrying the stuff is for the birds. If I go to DSI, same thing. Service. I give them a print, a delivery date, my steel framing, insulation, and board are all there and carted in. I'll pay extra for that, no problem. They'll deliver it in spearate trips if thats what I need. No extra.
So my opinion, boxes have selection, sometimes quality, and market primarily to the homeowner who has the Wal Mart shopping attitude - I'll go looking and buy what I see that looks pretty. Yards cater to the pro who really is looking for ways to save time and energy. If I had to do all the shopping and deliveries, job costs would go up. Its more economical for me to let them do that and charge for it in material markup.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
I use Lowes/Depot for tools since there are not alot of tool outlets around here (lowes, hd, sears).
Otherwise, I use the local yard and the local hardware store (which carries only a couple of power tools) for everything unless they don't have it.
I generally get higher quality goods, much better service, competent advice, and the price is rarely significantly higher (and often lower).
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Several reasons for using my regular yard-
the sales people are familiar with the products and can answer questions. And if they don't know, they can find out.
reliable service- they know me, and will pretty much do what it takes to keep me ( and my customers) happy.
the cost can vary- but I find that generally the materials are better quality and better condition at my local yard.
Also, I can get in and out faster at the local place- no double handling of the materials and dealing with cashiers or lines.
Bo, I owe an allegiance to my local yards because they treat me like an important customer, their only important customer. Ever since begining in '72 I have done business locally and was supported in business by what the others have said.....delivery at my call, quality goods, easy account terms, drive in, pick out, then stop at the desk. They've stayed open for me on the way, brought out needed goods when I couldn't leave to get them and generally just gone the extra mile to help me maintain the quality which has granted me the success I enjoy. This past summer I lost the first yard I did business with. They could no longer stay in operation and make out. It was a sad day.
When they're gone, everyone will know what I mean.
edit- Almost forgot my local tool distributor. Again, '72 and just starting out. I needed a screw gun and a sawzall. At that time, it was either craftsman or a couple independent suppliers. I went to this family operation because they gave me credit from day one.........without filling out my life history...........just looked me in the eye and asked if I would agree to pay 30 days after invoice.......sure. It did help that the bookeeper, the daughter I think, or maybe the wife of the son, was drop dead gorgeous. They've kept me up and running with no waiting 10 days to take a look. They take it in the back, open it up and it's either fixed or they find something for me to finish the day. I still have the screw gun and sawzall and everything else I've purchased there. I take care of my tools and they take care of me. Service and treatment like this you can never get from a large concern.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Edited 1/14/2005 7:18 pm ET by calvin
from a BUILDER'S perspective
They have crappy amterials
They do not deliver
They have absolutely NO service whatsoever
the cost as far as price tag is sometimnes lower on attention getting items but sometimes higher on accessories so the fouinal is similar to local yards, and they do not deliver.
Did I mention that they have no service whatsoever? If they make a mistake ( I should say WHEN they make a mistake, bercause that is their specialty) it will become YOUR respoinsibility to correct that mistake.
etc.????
Don't even imagine using them for special order items
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I absolutely agree. We have a long established relationship with a fantastic yard (here’s the plug – Compton Lumber in <!----><!----><!---->Seattle<!----><!---->).
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For what ever reason, a generation or two ago, Compton Lumber started becoming the supplier to a lot of the local theater scene shops. They stock some materials solely for us, deliver at a moments notice, track down suppliers of weird things we use, and call us if they happen upon a product that they think we might find interesting or useful for future builds. If there is a problem with a material, they solve it – no question.
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In short, they are not a supplier, they are a resource.
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Try that with a Big Box. Sure, you might find an individual who proves to be helpful, but not the whole company.
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability
so which of youns have 84 lumber yards........from the area where it all started....eighty four pa......
Dan
we got 'em
don't use them...
product ain't so good...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Our 84 is only a couple of years old. It came out of the gates like a sick tortise. Bad management, and that just trickled the crud down through the ranks. A handful of builders made a swap, but not many people were happy.
Management got canned, new guy shows. Quickly, a turnaround. He noticed that this guy was always using a kind of trim (special order), so now that's stocked. People wanted more variety in knobs, now they have 40 or 50 to pick from. If I special order anything, they ask if it's a one time deal or if I'll have a recurring use. If its the latter, it gets stocked. Needless to say, the whole place, attitude, service, etc, has turned around, and people noticed. They're winning corporate awards left and right.
I think this is a good argument for the value of good leadership - they aren't all bad. I dare say somewhere out there there's a HD that might actually be worthwhile. Best case of doing right by the customer I've heard thus far, they quoted a house package for a guy, when all the receipts were totaled out (anticipated deliveries plus all the odds and ends that follow) there was better than a $20K difference. But the bookkeeping had been jacked, there were things listed on invoices that weren't in the house (which probably was someone just entering the easiest thing rather than the right thing) - but they said no, we quoted you the whole house. So they wrote off $20K. I bet that guy will defend them.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
I think the crew that got canned there came out here...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
No, they came out here?Or they are multiplying.I really don't know, because I am just a DIY. But the few times that I have been in the place you are immedately attacked by 5 employees because they are so lonely.They took over several of the old Payless yards and the one by me is next to a hardware store that I go to all the time and never see anyone in the parking lot. But I have seen some duplexes going up with 84 lumber printed on the house wrap so I guess that they do some buisiness.This spring I went in looking for a vynal window to replace a steel basement hopper window. The guy kept going through catalog after catalog saying that they did not make then that samll.The Lowes guy knew exactly what I needed and showed me the catalog sheets.The other lumberyard is a United Building Center which is part of a large chain in the midwest and plains states. You might have onenear you. The same parent company also owns Lumberman's, Spenards, Hoida, Dixieland, Poulsens, and Home Lumber.The last time that I was in the place, before it was UBC, they had a large selection of "builders supplies". Everything from storm doors to hinges to pry bars to hammers. But that was about 10 years ago.Went in there to order some replacement parts for an Andersen door. And they had some selection of windows and doors. Other than that they had 2 styles of hammers, about 3 different kinds of caulk & construciton adhesive and a couple of other items. Typically Lowes has more on the clearance table they had.Now to be fair they do have some bulk items that where in the back room. When I was there they brought out a large box of tapcons for someone. But it looks like it is mainly a place for LUMBER and not much else.
Here, in the Raleigh area, we have several builder's supplies to Choose from. Free delivery and knowledgeable sales staff are the deciding factors. HD or Lowes is good for some bolts or the few boards we are short, but the big stuff comes from the yard. Here, HD and L. doesn't stock some common stuff like 14' lumber. Buy some tools from the big boxes because of the selection and return policies - if it don't work, take it back, no Qs.
I learned a long time ago, that strangely enough, the big boxes don't consider builder's their target market. Few quick stories. 1) Needed a house full of mid-high end windows - big box sales staff is too busy "helping a homeowner find the right kind of plywood" to pay full attention to me... Told me I should use the regular windows/sizes they had in stock. 2) needed closet brackets for 8 houses - they only had enough for 6. Told me I would have to wait 2 to 3 weeks for stock to be replenished. 3) needed 6 of a particular range hood. they only had 4 - told me - "No we cant have a few sent over from the store on the other side of the city. You will have to go get them yourself". I was there just 2 days ago, and not a person in the store knew what silt fence was. They kept sending me out to the fencing dept. It was in building materials. Locally, Lowes is getting better on the commercial sales end though... Matt
To all,
I was kind of surprised to see someone list 84 lumber as a good lumber yard.
the 2 I have been in rank below HD or Lowes in my opinion.
the times I have been in an 84 lumber---I was the only customer----and still had to wait 8-10 minutes or so for someone to appear at the sales counter from where ever they were hiding.
they also have this EXTREMELY annoying procedure where they take your order at the counter----then you go outside to load---THEN you go back inside to pay--------what a waste of time----they have developed the one possible system more inconvenient than Home Depots'.
I do have an old yard that I like----old enough that my Grandpa used 70 years ago. It is a union shop---so I know everyone is earning a living wage. They stock materials no 84 Lumber around here---or a Home Depot would ever stock. Want redwood claps????, how about cedar claps???, redwood 5/4 stock????, redwood 2x4's. special order doors---no problem---special order anything??? no problem----plus the actually CALL YOU when the special order arrives. they have their own millwork department with the schedule right at the counter----but if you really need something small but special RIGHT NOW---they will take you back into the mill department and run it RIGHT NOW. LOTs of stuff usefull to working on old houses that no LOWES would ever stock---and no pimply faced home depot employee ever heard of.
I always go to the same guy at the counter, he knows me by name, at least appears happy to see me, handles any special orders flawlessly---and knows much more than me----I appreciate that. It makes a nice change from home depot---where I have to answer THEIR questions...LOL
Stephen
The only times I use big box stores are for tools and misc. stuff not found at a lumber yard. I use Peter Lumber , better quality, delivery and generally less money. Framing lumber, sheathing, always less than Lowe's or HD. I calculated a 4% savings on lumber and 1% on sheathing. Not tremendous savings, but with delivery and knowledgeable staff worth going to even if materials cost more.
mike