Replies

1. 
   IMERC | Aug 22, 2006 05:42am | #1

   ya should have went to the fest....

   dealing with the anxiety would be the least of yur problems....

    

    

   Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming

   WOW!!! What a Ride!

   Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

2. 
   brownbagg | Aug 22, 2006 05:58am | #2

   dont do anything, it best if you just tell him to call you when you finish, with everything. dont even look at the house, no drive bys, no phone calls. leave him alone.

1. 
   DougU | Aug 22, 2006 06:45am | #3

   BB

   Thats funny!

   I used to trim some track homes back in the day and one of the salesmen told a HO once that it'd be better if they didnt come by the house, they'd see things that they didnt understand and maybe not like so to avoid that it would be better to just stay away until the house was done!

   I guess he was probably right.

   Doug

1. 
   IMERC | Aug 22, 2006 06:49am | #4

   the future HO's are told the same thing here.....

    

    

   be in the dark...

   what you don't know they'll get away with... 

    

   Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->

   WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->

   Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!

1. 
   DougU | Aug 22, 2006 08:38am | #6

   be in the dark...

   Just the way they like em!

3. 
   piko | Aug 22, 2006 08:18am | #5

   You married or equivalent? Try doing the finishing bits, and you won't be for long! You'll end up doing work to make the house finished for the divorce otherwise. Honestly, you'll find that some things may never get finished, and that'll be a strain on any relationship. Pay the builder, earn your money to pay him, and enjoy a hassle-free life - weekends, fishing, skiing, WHY - without the worry that you'll not get completed.

   All the best...

   To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.

    

4. 
   VermJr | Aug 23, 2006 06:51am | #7

   I read your post last night and thought about it off and on all day. Heres my thoughts; You seem to have spent some time in selecting your builder, and it appears that you have done your homework. Since he has agreed to you doing some of the work, do him and youself a big favor. Ask him to schedule you just like he would any other sub-contractor. I am assuming that your builder does not do everything "in-house", and subs out portions of the work. I think that you owe this to both him, and yourself. For example, when tile floors aren't completed on schedule, the finish carpenter and painters schedule are effected. A three day delay might force one of them to reschedule your job after he moves up another to keep he and his employees working. End result, your project is delayed, you keep making interest payments on your construction loan, you get frustrated, your builder gets stressed, and one only knows what happens to the wife. If your builder gives you a schedule of when something needs to start and when it needs to be completed, Meet his expectations. If you can't, don't do the work. Let the builder do his job, let him get the work done. That's why you're paying him. Another approach might be to do some things that do not effect the "critical path" of the job. Your deck might be a good example. It's usually a job that can be completed at a more leisure pace and not impact another phase or sub.

   Don't drive yourselves nuts building this home. People build homes. People make mistakes. Mistakes get corrected. Your builder and his employees won't see every little error. They'll try, but they won't. They can't be expected to. That's just the way it is. Keep in mind, you're building a house, not a piano. If you're building to a budget, there's gonna be some compromises.

   You may not agree with everyting I've said, but thanks for listening.

   HV

    

5. 
   merlvern | Aug 23, 2006 09:30pm | #8

   bought a "fixer upper" and i'm in much the same spot as you.....it might help if you defined for yourself what "personal touches" are to you.

   for me it is the trim and built ins in particular areas as well as thinking about the cost of contractor vs. your own time. once, on this forum, i asked about the right way to fix a rotted sill and what questions i might ask prospective contractors. got a lot of great responses, and most suggested that it would be easy for me to do myself. it just didn't fit into my list of "me" to-do's amongst the long list of other tasks. so ask yourself if personal touch means drywalling or trimming out a window seat for instance and limit what you do to the things that people will notice and you can take pride in / brag about. most people wouldn't notice a nicely done mud job, but would notice beautiful moldings.

   my 2 cents

1. 
   CSchnack | Aug 23, 2006 10:07pm | #9

   I won't try to guess if those who said "don't go by the house or look at it under construction" were kidding. 

   Just want to comment that while some buyers are actually told by their builder (or others) to do it that way, if anything goes wrong, the home buyer will quickly be accused of not having done "due diligence" by being there every day.  IMO the homeowner needs to be there frequently.  If they don't have the expertise to know what they're looking at, they need to hire someone competent who does.  Whether mistakes are deliberate shortcuts or honest mistakes, catching and correcting them early will save everyone a lot of expense and stress later on.  

   I have worked on construction and painting projects myself and do understand the irritation of having someone breathing down your neck while you work, but I fully expected the client was going to come in at some point and inspect what they are paying for.  Taking a look at what's been done at the end of the day should be expected and does  not interfere with progress.  What interferes with progress is to have to tear something apart and do it over, because something wasn't caught early.

6. 
   jimxxx | Aug 23, 2006 11:01pm | #10

   Back in the early 70's I was headed where you are. Getting a new home and wanted to help. Not so much as a money saver, but also to demonstrate I had some idea what was going on. I was going to GC it myself then found I wasn't going to have the time. So I hired a GC. But, then I sub-contracted back from him the parts we thought I would have time for and what he thought he was willing to risk my knowing what I was doing and would get it done on his schedule. He supplied the materials and I got credit for my "sub" work against the purchase price.

   This actually worked pretty well & I didn't hold up his work schedule at all. It was good experience on meeting a work schedule.

   Since then I have gone on to GC my own projects, but continue to appreciate that first experience.

   Some of the people on this forum tend to forget they started as novices too. There is room for knowledgeable, skilled people to participate in their own projects. Its not like an unskilled DIY who will get in the road & screw things up. But remember things are going to take longer than you expect & don't set your move-in target too far before finishing the project.

   Good Luck

1. 
   rickincharlotte | Aug 25, 2006 05:29am | #19

   Thank you all so very much. You have all been very helpful. The common theme that I am taking away from this discussion will be to "BE REALISTIC" and try to enjoy the experience.
   One thing that I have been applying through out these preliminary stages is to maintain clear lines of communication with with all parties involved...and to be very honest. As an additional note to pass along. Months ago when the planning stage began. I choose a designer, builder, banker and lawyer (for the closing) that all have a working relationship with one another. These early stages have been very smooth.THANKS AGAIN TO ALL!!!!!RickO

7. 
   Puzzle | Aug 23, 2006 11:02pm | #11

   If your builder is reputable, you have seen the quality of his work and have no reason to distrust him, then rest assured that the best thing you can do is to get out of the way. Micro managing will only serve slow the job and raise the bill!

1. 
   merlvern | Aug 23, 2006 11:09pm | #12

   i know what you're saying, but i think rick is talking about pride of having done himself rather than other issues.know what i mean?

8. 
   TJK | Aug 24, 2006 02:27am | #13

   I hope it all works out on this house, you're a lucky guy to have an opportunity like this. In reading your post I had a sense that you and the builder were fairly chummy, perhaps even friends, so here is my warning (worth at least $.02). If you enter this project and treat this builder as anything but a business associate, you're making a big mistake. I can guarantee that if any friendship exists now, it will be long gone by the time the house is finished. One of the biggest mistakes I ever made was building a house in '86 and thinking of the builder as a friend who didn't need written instructions or a detailed contract and schedule.

   Yes mistakes happen, and yes schedules slip, it will surely happen during the construction of your house. The problems arise when your idea of a sensible resolution doesn't match with your builder's views. That is why you need an arm's-length, strictly-business relationship, and a detailed formal contract.

1. 
   coinless | Aug 24, 2006 03:05am | #14

   I have never bulit a house, but I have worked in construction some. I am about to build a house and am considering being the GC. I have a meeting with a local builder this week and I like the homes he builds. I can't help but think I could save a bundle but don;t want to get in over my head. Any advise?

1. 
   jimxxx | Aug 24, 2006 04:11am | #15

   Don't do it if the only object is to save money. You'll burn out and end up with a rough mess. You won't enjoy doing it and will get sloppy!!!!!!!!!!!!

2. 
   drywallpaul | Aug 25, 2006 12:38am | #18

   As a trade I can honestly say that I will avoid those jobs where the HO is the GC completely. 

   Although I have come across some very nice, honest HO with the best intentions, more times than not, it ends up in a giant mess costing the HO way more than it should, and costing me way more than it should in time.

   I've done houses where the people have no idea about schedules, or even the order in which things are to completed.

   I may sound a little crass, but I have seen it way too many times and seen the unhappiness of the HO as well as the trades that are all supposed to be working together to build something beautiful.

   A house is meant to be a home.  Not a reminder of an awful experience.

   I know one woman who is now selling her home, less than a year after taking possession, because of it.

   Paul

9. 
   WayneL5 | Aug 24, 2006 04:54am | #16

   I was in a similar situation, being quite skilled as a hobbyist and wanting to contribute special designs to the home that the builder would not do himself.  I learned a few things.

   Choice of builder is critical.  He has to be very competent himself so I could trust him fully with his work and keep myself out of it.  And he also needs to be willing to work with such an arrangement.  In my case I had both.  We got along well as if we were on a real collaboration.  I left him alone on the building and he permitted me to work while he was on site.  After a while he even offered to allow me to use his tools (which I only did rarely).

   I did all the wiring in the house, and that was my only mistake.  I could not even come close to keeping up with him on that.

   As for money matters and the bank, the builder wrote out the pricing and draw schedule as if he were going to do the complete home himself.  That's what I got the loan on.  Then in my contract with him, we used a lower price for the work he would actually do for me, along with a lower draw schedule.  How it worked was, for example, when the first draw came I paid him his amount, then the overage I used for funding my part of the work.  There was enough money by the next to the last draw to pay the builder fully, so he was done and onto another job while I completed my part:  kitchen, bath, tile, flooring, and so forth.   Then when I got the certificate of occupancy I got the final draw and paid my bills with the materials suppliers, and the sub I hired (stonemason).

   The jobs you choose to do cannot hold up the contractor, unless you arrange it a few weeks ahead to allow him to take other work for a week or two while you do your part.  And you would be wise to take on little that you'd need for a certificate of occupancy because if you fall behind it delays the final draw.  It's better to, for example, let the builder finish one bathroom, which is all that's needed for occupancy, then you can go to town on the other(s) after you have your CO and move in.  And flooring, for example, you just have to have a finished floor, not a nice floor.  So I painted my bedroom floors with cheap mistint paint, which made them legally finished, then had the carpeting done months later after all my messy work was over.

10. 
    BruceCM | Aug 24, 2006 10:17pm | #17

    3 years ago we (DW and I) were exactly where you are right now.

    Plans and engineering all done. Now, get a construction loan and interview GC's who'll work with me, as I want to negotiate to do some of the work.

    Yeah, uh-huh! Right!

    A very long story short: I elected to do it all myself. Lots of variables in this very tough decision. But I'll give you my final impression, looking back over the past 3 years after having just gotten my final inspection and certificate of occupancy, while doing the last bit of finish work that the final inspection didn't care about.

    1. It redefines 'LABOR OF LOVE'

    2. Saving money is a non-issue

    3. Tools, tools, tools, tools, and more tools.

    4. Gotta have $$ to pay as you go. This will be a show-stopper for most.

    5. Whatever time you estimate it'll take to do it, multiply by 4 and this will get you close...although even this is usually going to be an underestimate.

    6. Local building inspector is now one of my good friends, and this isn't by chance.

    7. Skill is critical...patience is next. With all modesty, I'm pretty skilled, but it takes me much longer...sometimes much, much longer...to complete a task than my professional builder neighbor. When he mosies over to see how I'm doing, it drives him nuts to watch me, for example, set my deck railing. I fuss, and adjust and fuss some more until it's perfect. Absolutely drives the guy to drink.

    8. Now that its reached completion (minus some finish work), it is one of the most gratifying things we have ever done, singly or together.

    Is it worth it? Of course, this depends on the person, but for us I would say yes. But for most of the people I've ever known, with few exceptions, I would say absolutely not.

    BruceM