Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Jul 13, 1999 12:00pm | #1

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   My ignorance -- but is it called a "root cellar" because that's where you store onions potatoes and such for the winter?

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   Guest_ | Jul 13, 1999 03:23pm | #2

   *A few questions and a few observations.Old time root cellars I've seen vary from fulling below grade and apparently sealed pretty well, at least no provision for through venting, to partially above grade with a wood framed portion. I have seen some built into a hill with the above grade portion heaped over with earth (haven't gotten inside to know if they are wood framed, or steel girdered or masonry vaulted). A few seem to have had vents on top but none apparent low.So it does not appear that air flow is part of the mechanism that makes them work, maybe it even hurts the function. The dirt floor seems an essential part. I remember old timers talking about how when the basement or the root cellar got it's darn modern cement floor it didn't keep the veggies so well anymore. I don't know if it's a moisture/temperature thing or some biological rather than physical process that involves soil.I live in a 1938 house with dirt crawlspaces at about grade and there's no rot of sills, rim, floor joists or flooring. They are all open to furnace room and most times that dirt is like powder, though it gets seasonally surface damp and musty. But just about any time if you were to walk on it I think you'd raise clouds of dust.Why did you wood frame the exterior facing portions of this room to finish? Were the two corner walls concrete foundation walls? I might have left them uncovered and built block walls on the other two sides and sealed up the underside of the living space framing and floor.

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   T_Bowser | Jul 14, 1999 12:04am | #3

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   Yes, a root cellar is to store "root" veggies.
   The ones that are built into the ground and mounded were made of cement block or rock. The vent is so that the humidity can be adjusted with a optimum level of 80-90%, which is why the floor is dirt to allow the moisture in. We apparently should have dug the hole outside of the house and just put a door through the foundation wall. Unfortunately our architect didnt know any more than we did about the moisture. We could use block for the 2 interior walls, but we would still have the wood floor joists above. I guess that is the trade off for a modern airtight house. I know that when we were living in the basement before we had more than a roof and sheathing on the walls that we had a real moisture problem with condensation on the ceiling(or floor of 1st floor) until we put plastic over the area we will call my" wanna be root cellar". I guess at that time I started to wonder if we would be able to find a way to make it work. Thanks for the help.

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   Guest_ | Jul 14, 1999 01:11am | #4

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   Dear Mr. Bowser,

   The modern day equivalent of the old root cellar is the cold storage and is normally incorporated in the design by adding on a concrete porch, cast in place with an access from inside the basement.

   The "addition" is neither dampproofed or insulated and has no concrete floor, only clean crushed stone.

   You're have taken steps to contain the excess humidity under your joists. In order for you to enjoy and reclaim your root cellar, you are going to have to make a few changes.

   Do insulate the ceiling and interior walls completely.

   Line the ceiling and interior walls with 6 mil poly, making sure that you have overlapped the plastic at all intersects and seal with accoustical caulking. Next step is to cover with WR wallboard. Your concrete exterior walls should be fine. Buy an exterior grade, insulated door and frame c/w threshold and install it as if the cold room was the exterior of the basement.

   Line the inside with shelving and enjoy.

   Gabe

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   Guest_ | Jul 14, 1999 02:40pm | #6

   *When you were living in the space you may have had two problems that are now gone. 1) People exhale a lot of moisture. Alexander Graham Bell actually worked on a scheme to capture and condense that moisture as a potable water supply for people lost at sea. 2) The partially finished space above was unheated and shaded by the roof, the surface above your heads was undoubtedly colder that the ambient air around your bodies.Does the vent you describe work all by itself or is human intervention needed to control it? Anyway, can't you just vent moisture to the outside of your room after you'v sealed it from other parts of the basement and house?

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   T_Bowser | Jul 14, 1999 02:40pm | #5

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   I planned a rootcellar when we started building our house, we left a northwest corner of the basement without concrete on the floor. Now it is framed in and I don't know if there is any way that I can insulate and vent this room without creating an area where the wood will rot out. I planned to put a hi/low vent duct in a window that we put in the room. I also figured that I would use a steel insulated door. I am thinking that I would have to be creative with the insulation and vapor barrier. Maybe attach the vapor barrier to cellar side of studs and then put celotex insulation and water resistant drywall over that. My thinking is that way the wood framing is outside of the damp area. Does that sound like it would work? Any suggestions would be appreciated. TIA