Why are people content with having a Building Inspector be an elected position?.
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Replies
They are not .
Tim
Not elected here either but it is a VERY small county and it's a lifetime job and it surely takes 'connections' should a vacancy appear.
The building inspector here is appointed by the mayor.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
the building inspectors here are hired by their brother in law because they are too stupid to get a job at walmart, and they want their wife to quit whinning "You dont love me anymore and you hate my family" so bob the head dipsh#t at the county hires his no good for nothing cant get a job, I flunk out of bible school, a job so his wife would shut the hell up and he could watch monday night football with the dog in peace.. 2+3=7
Edited 12/20/2005 7:57 pm by brownbagg
Wrong! 7-3=5. Someones got to keep you hackers in line.
I love my inspectors ...and you can too for just 50 bucks.
My BI's here (New London, CT>) are GREAT - & I am not being sarcastic. They always explain things clearly, & are sensitive to old house issues. They have told me what to do in some tricky situations, I've seen that it was done, & they approved, always come the next day or 2 when I call, etc.
We were amazed when we moved here & had our first encounter with them - our last house was in Hoboken, NJ - was different there!
Just when you think you've got it bad... I've mostly worked in NJ and CT, places where corrupt politicians are the norm. Yet both states require their inspectors to pass a certification test, and I've yet to encounter an inspector who was really off the wall. Most of them in fact, have been quite professional - helpful, even.Andy
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Re:"I've yet to encounter an inspector who was really off the wall. Most of them in fact, have been quite professional - helpful, even."I agree that's pretty much what I have experienced down here in Florida. Sometimes the more rural ones have to be gently brought up to speed on an article in the NEC that they are taking out of context but mostly they are well intentioned and trying hard in the face of knuckle dragging hacks, skinflint contractors and HOs who don't know or care.
maybe it's a southern thing. same experience here, the more questions you ask the inspectors, the more they have to learn, the bettert inspector they become. Don't think ho's archs and engineers don' see how you relate to the inspectors. jim
Same here. The way to get on the inspector's good side is to do stuff right, have lights and ladders set to make everything easy to see, and the card and pen on a clipboard in hand when he gets there. The big push is for efficiency. He wants to see, sign, and split asap.
-- J.S.
Our inspector is a Jackass. Likely derived from the King of Jacks and the Queen of ####. He actually tried to tell us that headers "need" plywood sandwhiched in between them because the "plywood" is what gives it strength. Jackass! Whatever! Keep suckin your way to the top!
that headers "need" plywood sandwhiched in between them
If he insists that partiion wall (non-load bearing) headers are required, I may know where he used to practice before tormenting people out in NM <g> (that, or that dam donkey sure bred a lot of cousins <g> . . . )Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Since this thread has gained quite a bit of attention of discussion I would like to add my thoughts.
Most of the codes make good sense but that is a little general.
Spans and loads plus freeze depths are located in the chapters along with lots more of the same type information. Theres much more reason in researching codes than passing inspections.
Has anyone thought about saving litigation or keeping it to a minimum?
Ive seen as most of you footings crack causing breaks from ground up in brick which discounts a home considerably. Ive also seen cracks in floors that just get biggeralong with too much setllement as we read posts all the timne here addressing it . Also answering questions here over cracking drywall and plaster plus sagging beams. Goes right into roof malfunctions and leaks .
Past that mechanical is a biggy because most of the time after inspectionn its covred up under finished walls and concrete. It reminds me of a last chance to view the body before burial.
Someone mentioned somewhere here that water was the most dangerous source of damage to buildings . Well Ill add that fire is the biggest threat to human life in buildings. Both statements are correct.
Not mentioned in those two statements are footing and foundation problems . From that stems the soil , freeze depth, steel and rebar sizing and installation methods. Of course the strength of the concrete and its conditions when it comes from the shute. In commercial we do slump tests to determine the mix used is consistent and in plain terms not soup poured in a ditch. Soil testing is also included. Backfilling depths , materials used in fill and the installation of packing in lifts or layers plus treatments .
Trusses come with a stamp and lumber grades are a way of using different quality lumber to different installations.
In overview these things are quite important . Ill mention somthing here that I dont think has ever been mentioned. It would be great education for a GC to familarize themselves with all the codes even mechanical. Ask questions if it seems greek. He has the opportunity to question his sub and his BI. I believe a builder should know as much as he can about what hes putting his name on and backing with warranty.
Tim
LOL! - you are too funny!!
Don't hold back brownbagg - tell us how you really feel !
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
"
Don't hold back brownbagg - tell us how you really feel !"
Hes kinda bashful to share his true feelings. We handle him gently . <G>
Tim
I'm sorry brownbag. One of our inspectors suddenly disappeared during the night, I guess he ended up out your way.
the building inspectors here .... too stupid ... flunk out of bible school
Nice touch. Quality imaginative writing now found in BT.
LOLLife and suffering are inseparable.
Here, the head of the LADBS is the Chief Engineer, an appointed position. It's not for life, the mayor can pick a new one if he wants. The current guy was appointed two mayors ago, and isn't in any danger of getting replaced. The danger, if any, is that somebody will offer him a better job. He did a lot to reform and improve the department. The field inspectors are unionized public employees, working under a contract. There are about 800 employees at LADBS.
-- J.S.
Around here the Building Dept. was part of the fire dept. What a joke that was, bunch of gun-hose guys that were clueless. They sure looked good in the blue uniforms & flashing lites on their trucks.
Changed about 4 years ago, now their own dept. But this place has grown 10 fold in the past 6-7 years so there is now more Cheifs & few Indians.
Is there such a place?
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Not elected here. Just hired pretty much like any other job. Not really a glamerous position either. In the City where I do most of my work, the BIs are pretty much over worked. Sometimes backed up 3 days and stay on my site an average of 5 minutes. They are probably pretty good though. They specialize which means that there are seperate ones for plumbing, elect, mech, building, and site engineering (site, sidewalks, driveway aprons, etc.).
In a more rural county where I also work, one BI does all and what sucks is they make you group your inspections. Like all rough-ins, framing, exterior, sewer/water service all at once. Not much chance of passing one of those. So, you got to get everyone in there before anyone can get full payment.
How many of those on this thread that are working carpenters or general contractors have a current copy of the code?
In my area, I have found that the vast majority don't; only 10-15% do!! Yet we claim to be professionals and don't have all the tools of our trade-that's 1 big reason why we need inspections- we don't have the documents we can refer to when making a decision.
The other reason is that we're not being professional and spending the $100 or so that would buy us that last tool-the code. We let the inspector tell what is code rather than taking the initiative to be ahead of the curve.
I used to go to many seminars and training sessions in the 1980's when I ran a small multi-faceted "building services" company. 50+% of attendees were gov't; 30-40% were from large builders/manufactured home builders; 5-7% =architects/technicians and.......2-5% were small builders, carpenters, handymen,etc.
Why don't we keep ahead and save ourselves grief in poor reputations, law suits, failed inspections, etc by buying and understandng these documents. Man, if doctors had to have an inspector/surgeon at every operation they performed, how confident would you be with them?
I am getting to inspect more new houses at closing and finding that even the code inspectors aren't keeping up due to cutbacks in funding for this important process due to the public's demand of lower taxes. With lower taxes, you can't have a well trained inspection dept. Here, during a construction downturn in the early-mid 90's, about 1/3 the inspection staff were layed off. In the late 90's to now, we're having the largest residential construction boom ever and there aren't enough inspectors (to the point they went on strike in 2003-4). It takes about 5 years to train a good residential inspector just in building code, not plumbing and electrical included. Don't let them go once you have them tained.
Anyways, inspected a new house last Monday for closing; it closed this past Monday. Just on the HRV, I found 7-8 corrections to be made at or within ten feet of the unit. These were not picked up by the inspector (no HRV course). The installer sent back to correct things had not had the course for HRV's. The 2 engineer/brothers/GC's argued for about 2 minutes until I showed the maufacturer's instructions on just a couple of the issues.........and then "Everything will be fixed and we will not use that sub again". So who's at fault here? To me- the installer. He should know his trade and not cut corners!!
Ahh you drew me out in the street . I was gonna leave this one alone. <G>
You are correct.
Of all the builders I inspected not one owned a code book and not even an out dated one. They always asked me and thats how I got an education of them. I kept referenceing codes for THEM. Oh well its was a valuable experience to me.
One thing that pizzes off inspectors is to be argued with by someone who doesnt know the code in question to begin with and ask to be shown. What does that tell ya ! In code classes we visited out side during breaks and those stories always came up. We all wanted to tell the GC to whup his code copy on the truck hood and for him to proove HIS point > hahahaha. Wont ever happen though as BIs are public servants plus the GC has never got a code book! hehehe.
Mechanical guys have a code book somewhere . The ones they used to take their test what ever year that was ,... They do better because most of the violations are on them the hard heads, and the BI is their hard teacher . They dont study at home a tall. They like to argue too but for some reason its over money. <G> Builders too .
I made the statement here that everyone needed to carry their own respective code book in the truck. No one said not neary a thing. <G> But I dont carry one either. Im no better . Im in the group man. hahaha
So it goes
Tim
Edited 12/21/2005 2:16 pm by Mooney
OK, this is a passing of the hat time so we all can join in and buy Tim a new code book.
Please make all PayPal account transfers, moneyorders and checks made out care of AndyEngle and noted 'for goofyone's codebook'.
Hopefully he'll be able to get one to Tim by the first of the year.
be a sloping cabinet floor
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Roar!
That sloping cabinet floor under the sink has saved me sevral times since I mentioned it . I know I know. <G>
Side bar;
I spent a lot of time trapping and getting out smarted by foxes and coyotes. The question always was prevalant how to get one of those suckers to step in a 3 inch sqaure. Sqaure on the money----snap! Every other critter that I trapped could be taken off a trail but not those suckers. It must have damaged my mind and there fore goofyness prevails . Put that water on a womans feet and she will sqauk every time setting the perfect trap.
Tim
Whenever I disagreed with the inspector, the most productive approach was to ask to be educated. "Could you show me where in the code that is?" If he was wrong, we got there in a way that saved face. If I was wrong, I learned something. Andy
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
For both to have a learning experience is progress. With that mind set of both involved there comes respect and thats the basis for relationships formed. I really enjoyed some of those friendships. But as every thing good there comes some bad . It cost me some friendships too. Probably a peer in the field for a good period of time should not have become an inspector unless he moved there . I busted some friends and I dont think they will ever forgive it.
Be walkin into the sun.
Tim
Maybe those friends shouldn't have expected you to do other than your job...Andy
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
You make a good point about asking questions of BIs. If they have time it can be a great way of hashing out differences without getting anyone into an embarrassing bind.IMHO a considerable number of people with the worse experiences are people who come at inspectors the wrong way. This is about as smart as telling the highway patrolman to 'sing a few bars of YMCA' when you get pulled over. Discounting the chance of a patrolman with a really great sense of humor your unlikely to avoid a ticket.
That was always the first approach that I took as well. "I guess I'm a little unclear on that section. Which paragraph is that again?"
Sometimes, if I knew I had a design in the works that involved a section of the IMC that the head mechaincal inspector and I interpreted differently, I'd run it buy him first before he had a chance to veto it. Prior concurrence is a lot easier to obtain than a reversal of an opposition, right or wrong. Good thing was, the inspector learned that I used the code book religiously in commercial designs. Always helps to aks for their expertise every once in a while, needed or not, just to keep the dialog going.
Hey Tim , been a gc 35 yrs. and seen codes go from whats that to you got to have six nails in each end of a header. somebody has to push the limits or the state of building technology stagnates. sometimes the system has to be dragged screaming and kicking into a new path. not often pretty, seldom fun, but has to be done. I'm lucky to live in a place where innovation is the norm, not the exception. [think rocket ships, guided missles, computers,etc. the printer sitting beside my computer was designed by a company started in a garage here locally, they got bought out by a major printer co. at some point. if I have a problem with my printer, I don't call the mega-zone co that bought them, I call the guy who figured the thing out from the start.reading these postsabout BIs I can't belive the state of BI I read about. HEY GUYS, BIs are there to help us do a better job, make sure the public is protected from obvious disasters waiting to happen and to move the technology forward. Need to get politicians out of the loop.our BIs do 80 hrs. mandatory further ed. each year, some of them last, some don't. If your BI dept. doesn't measure up, or is some kind of politacal position to pay off bubba, raise hell!, get the %%%% thing changed to a system that works. we' re all out trying to do the same thing, make a living in the building industry. You'd be surprised how easy it can be to modify public standards in cases like this. you got to look like them, talk like them, laugh at their jokes and if you pay attention you can make a difference. pretty ugly path for a used-up old carpenter to consider,worth it if you improve the status- quo, I been at this a long time and try to learn something new every day [don't know what the hell I pushed to change the font, I think computer stupid would the proper description] keep on chuging along. jim
nota- It's easier on the eyes and readability to break your postings up into paragraphs.
And the oldtimers place a value on a larger font type. :o)
Hey Tim , been a gc 35 yrs. and seen codes go from whats that to you got to have six nails in each end of a header. somebody has to push the limits or the state of building technology stagnates.
sometimes the system has to be dragged screaming and kicking into a new path. not often pretty, seldom fun, but has to be done. I'm lucky to live in a place where innovation is the norm, not the exception. [think rocket ships, guided missles, computers,etc.
the printer sitting beside my computer was designed by a company started in a garage here locally, they got bought out by a major printer co. at some point. if I have a problem with my printer, I don't call the mega-zone co that bought them, I call the guy who figured the thing out from the start.
reading these postsabout BIs I can't belive the state of BI I read about. HEY GUYS, BIs are there to help us do a better job, make sure the public is protected from obvious disasters waiting to happen and to move the technology forward.
Need to get politicians out of the loop.our BIs do 80 hrs. mandatory further ed. each year, some of them last, some don't.
If your BI dept. doesn't measure up, or is some kind of politacal position to pay off bubba, raise hell!, get the %%%% thing changed to a system that works. we' re all out trying to do the same thing, make a living in the building industry.
You'd be surprised how easy it can be to modify public standards in cases like this. you got to look like them, talk like them, laugh at their jokes and if you pay attention you can make a difference.
pretty ugly path for a used-up old carpenter to consider,worth it if you improve the status- quo, I been at this a long time and try to learn something new every day
[don't know what the hell I pushed to change the font, I think computer stupid would the proper description] keep on chuging along. jim
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
why does everybody keep messing with the fonts, leave them alone.. 2+3=7
yeah, leave them fonts alone!
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
thats not funny. 2+3=7
Experienced, I 100% agree with you. When in doubt, I actually enjoy checking it out, and learning the right way to do things by code gives an incredible level of self-confidence about a specific task. Unfortunately, In the majority of my encounters with local inspectors, They were less than informed on the proper and safe way of doing things, and willing to turn a blind eye on the "local yokel" developer who built the Town Managers house.
I have a current code book and know it fairly well.
All: I think a lot of people are intimidated by code books, because of their somewhat cryptic nature and the sometimes awkward wording. My advice is to take a class of some kind that covers code. Once you get the hang of how the book is laid out, it's not bad to navigate through at all. New versions are no big deal either, although update classes are very helpful too. If nothing else, generally the first 6 or 8 chapters follow the logical sequence of building a house, starting with foundation (after some preliminary stuff). Also once you weed out the pages that don't apply to what you are doing, the amount of material is cut down drastically. For example our version of IRC 2000 covers ICF - which I have seen one of in the 12 years I've lived in this state. It also covers metal framed houses - never seen one of those. And the last half of the book is mostly stuff we (here) don't use... I'd definitely recommend against any generic type of code books - like Code Check - definitely a waste of time and money since their contents may of may not apply; when dealing with this kind of stuff you don't need "maybes". Once a BI knows that you know code, he gives a little more respect. OTOH, I have never been successful "pulling out the book" on a BI.
Edited 12/21/2005 7:37 pm ET by Matt
I have to disagree. I like the CodeCheck series of books.
What they've done is to go through all the haystacks of building codes, and collect nearly all the needles. They're a very quick way to get a good overview of most of the codes in use. They give the numbers to look up for everything they cite, so they can also be used as a sort of user-friendly table of contents. That alone can actually save a whole lot of time.
-- J.S.
To each his own... The Code Check book I had was of no use to me. I'm not even sure what happened to it... You make a good point about the table of contents though. That, and the index suck on all the code books I have owned. Like I say though, real code books aren't bad once you learn how to navigate them.
Is your state's code based on IRC??? or what?
> Is your state's code based on IRC??? or what?
Here it's the City of LA that's the AHJ. In the past, they used to pretty much go their own way, publishing their own codes. Now they're working on regional uniformity and simplification, a very good thing indeed. Here's more than you'd ever want to know about it:
http://www.icbolabc.org/laruc.htm
-- J.S.
>> How many of those on this thread that are working carpenters or general contractors have a current copy of the code? <<
Not getting too many "Yes" answers are you? :-)
>> We let the inspector tell what is code rather than taking the initiative to be ahead of the curve. <<
I make a point of being "ahead of the curve" as I pride myself in passing inspections. I have a good knowledge of building code and some of plumbing, mech and elect, but yes I still have to depend on BIs to tell me what they want in some circumstances. This is because codes are minimum standards, and the different jurisdictions I build in like to add their own little spin on things... Which if they want to make up some of their own rules - fine - that is compliant with state law. What my complaint is though is that none of the BI departments publish a document with their amendments. They just expect you to know these things via ESP... :-)
Admittedly though, 85% of issues that come up are right in 'the book'.
I found the IRC code book in the local library of the small town I was building in (Newport Ore.). They also had a condensed version with photos showing what they were talking about ,with punch list. The inspectors were very helpful when it came to seismic hold downs and the Prescriptive Compliance Path..I didnt know what the heck that was..Its nothing but wanting to know how much insulation and where.
Making people pay $100 for a current copy of each of these codes, and then expecting each of the millions of people involved in the residential construction business to buy their own copy is just plain ridiculous. These documents are the law of the land, or they walk and talk as if they were, and they should be available free of charge to anyone who wants them.
The only reason I have a current copy of the building code for my area is that it is available through a legal website http://www.canlii.org which offers free copies of all Canadian and provincial laws, regulations and statutes. There's also an excellent book of the "Code Check" variety available here for electrical work, called "(Residential) Electrical Code Simplified". The author of that book should be proud- he's offered something useful for a price affordable to homeowners, in clear and direct language, and has probably saved quite a few lives in the process.
A helpful thing that the Toronto building department does is to provide about 12 pages of "code notes" to the approved set of plans. These give key pieces of information, probably based on a list of stuff that BIs frequently fail people on.
Making people pay $100 for a current copy of each of these codes, and then expecting each of the millions of people involved in the residential construction business to buy their own copy is just plain ridiculous. These documents are the law of the land, or they walk and talk as if they were, and they should be available free of charge to anyone who wants them. Thats the price of doing business, buy the books and pass the cost on to the customer. its not like you got to buy them every year, only when the county changes, and then most of the changes in the new issue are not that much.we go buy astm and aashto codes plus the SBC. we buy new books every year for seven offices. It run us about 5k a year. But its the cost of doing business.. 2+3=7if you was a home owner, would you rather hire a contractor that had a copy of the current building code in his truck or one that claim he did not need them.
Edited 12/22/2005 8:10 am by brownbagg
Brownbagg: I've been to Home Despot and I know the huge number of "pretenders" who are actually out there building and renovating homes for other people, much less DIYers like me. Since it's a given that these people will continue to build and renovate homes regardless what you may want, it only seems to make sense to give them the information they need to do it as close to right as they can manage.
If the intent is to use the cost of the codes to keep hacks and DIYers out of the business, that strategy has failed. If the intent of codes in the first place is to permit incompetent people to do a job decently despite their ignorance and not leave a trail of dead bodies behind later, then let's get the code books into the hands of the people who need them.
What p*sses me off about codes much more than their cost is that they have a tendency to become a substitute for good judgment. Even some engineers tend to blindly follow codes and check their commonsense and engineering judgment at the door. Codes establish minimum standards for prescribed sets of circumstances to minimize design effort, which means that they're sub-optimal any time the design effort needs to be expended anyway. And blindly applied, these minimum standards can be inadequate or worse still, can require stupid things to be done which cause more potential harm than they solve. What all these codes NEED is a design guidance section for professionals so they can understand the INTENT and apply it to new circumstances.
"What all these codes NEED is a design guidance section for professionals so they can understand the INTENT and apply it to new circumstances."
That "sort of" exists already. It is the commenentary (sp) books put out by the same people that published the code book. While it is not law in and of itself, it does have a very strong backing since it was published by the same group that published the code book.
I am most familar with the commentary book for the IBC. It has all of the codes in it (it is identical to the IBC, nothing more , nothing less), PLUS many comments that can aid in understanding or interputing (sp) what the intent of a code is. This might be a better purchase than just a regular code book- you get the code ,plus a little help. Sorry to say, but these ain't cheap either. One good screw-up and they will suddenly look like a bargin.
On the intent question.Based on the electrical side I face many of the same questions. To get some answers every second or third code cycle, and definitely after the cord is reorganized, I drop an extra $50 or so and buy the handbook instead of, actually in addition to, the bare code.The other thing is that the NEC clearly states that it is Not intended as a manual or guide for Untrained craftsmen. I took classes to learn the Code and while I have gotten along pretty well without returning to the classroom very often there are Code classes and these are great at keeping tradesman/women up to date with code changes and refreshing the familiarity with the Code.Most localities and/or states can provide a list of providers of Code classes and refresher courses. Most of these are focused on or include sections on the local interpretations, rulings, variations and preferences.While I am mostly focused on the electrical side and the NEC I suspect that the other Codes are similarly supported.As for the financial burden of accessing various Codes I have found that most local libraries have copies of the local Codes and these can be referenced on site or, in some cases, checked out. IMO builders, contractors and tradesmen really should have their own copies of the Code/s used. Come on y'all, you can spend $150 on a drill and $200 on a hammer but can't swing $90 on a copy of the Code? Many DIYers can get by with referencing the libraries and, as needed, notes or photocopying small sections. Short term beginning tradesmen can get by with these resources. At least they can until they can swing some training and professional references.
In my area (Mobile, AL) there are but a few "building" inspectors; some are great, some are not:
The head inspector through which plans and specs have to be brought is a joke; I bring him a complete set of plans with details and stamps and he rejects them because they didn't have the particular code used printed on every page. Meanwhile, a homeowner can give the same inspector a set of sketches without any details, sections, or even a floor plan, and they get approved every time.
The main field inspector, however, is much more forgiving; he has told me if I correct "X" and tack a photo of "X" correction on the inspection board, he will pass it now. I always do the corrections, because to me it is a sign of trust between the BI and a good contractor.
I was once told, "Do everything you can as correctly as you can; if the inspector sees one thing that ain't right, he's gonna pick apart your work." I have lived by this and have always tried to go above and beyond "code" whenever my own independent research indicates something beyond what is considered "prudent" in my locale is in order.
I just wish everyone in the building department would get on the same page.Jason Pharez Construction
Framing & Exterior Remodeling
So 4lorn1
Of all the diffrent codes, I find the NEC the most difficult to comprehend or even to just use. It kind of seems that they need to brek it into 2 seperate codes, one for residential and one for everything else.
Do you ever use an index called Foruns Fast Finder or something similar to that. The index is bigger than the code book, but at least you can somewhat rapidly, sometimes find the answer you need, once in a while(isn't that a positive statement). It drives me nuts to remember that I read a code pertaining to something and then cannot find it when I need it.
I have seen the Fast Finder book.Can't say as I remember ever having used it.The NEC is not too bad as long as you understand how it is organized. Without some training, classroom or self-taught, it is easy to get lost, have trouble finding information or draw the wrong conclusions. Remember:
Chapters 1 to 4 apply to all installations.
Chapters 5 to 7 Apply to special situations. Rules for wiring a fuel farm or fire alarms.
Chapter 8 is communications.
Chapter 9 is tables for reference.
Chapter 10 is Annexes for informational use.Sometimes it can be hard for even trained and experienced users to dig up the proper article. Once in a while I will know the information but have to take some time to find the article to confirm it. Just the way it goes with a large body attempting to cover virtually any situation.There are manuals that teach only one phase of electrical work. Like just residential manuals. I was surprised to find that the HD electrical manual wasn't bad. Covered more than I would have expected and the graphics were pretty good for explaining the points. I only scanned it, waiting in line, but it looked like it covered the bases pretty well. I have seen worse.But the NEC covers it most everything. Partially because it is, in some ways, simpler that way. Generally the common themes seen in residential installations, like grounding, bonding, fusing and derating is pretty well common to commercial and industrial work also. So covering them once makes some sense.One thing to remember is to use not only the index but the table of contents. Working a question from both ends can often get you there more quickly.One thing that does help is practice. You can also look at resources like the magazine EC&M, Electrical Contracting and Maintenance. They are online at:http://ecmweb.com/They have a lot of information available online. Just between you and me you could likely get a free subscription just for asking and a little creative form filling but keep that on the QT.Keep at it to understand the NEC. After a while it usually dawns on people that there are common themes in the code. That the main concerns are common to all situations that even the wording is pretty common from article to article.A good start is to sit down, a cup or two of coffee might help as the NEC is great for insomnia, and read article 90 - Introduction and 100 - definitions. The NEC defines terms in ways normal people don't. Keep at it.
A trick that may be helpful: Keep your copy of the NEC on top of the toilet tank. Read a little code each time, and after a while you get familiar with it.
-- J.S.
> Making people pay $100 for a current copy ....
IIRC, last time I bought our City of LA code, it was a little under $400 U.S. $100 is a good deal.
-- J.S.
Actually, I think our's was $65 - BC only. NEC you can pick up at the book store for a little less than that. Mech and Plumbing I'm not sure about.
I'm in late to an early msg, but thought I'd remark on your astute observations. Until it behooved me to take a course in the Code - and indeed purchase a copy - my chief BI asked how come I didn't have a copy...this smart guy here replied "I've got a phone!".
Now I've a copy, and I find delight in being able to add onto my plans "as per 9.22.4.4(a)". I'm sure I get respect from the BIs for this - and this knowledge makes talking to them easier.
I certainly do respect my BIs, and they are often my first point of contact after my customers, for they are always willing to help and point out different ways to approach the problem.
Sure, we all dislike authority, especially if we feel it abused, but it's good to be on the sort of terms where, when one shows up and I comlain "how come you've brought the pink ('work not in accordance')form?", he'll riposte "I always carry them for your jobs!" Now, there's a guy I can accept a correction from.All the best...
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
And I'll add what my chief BI says "The worst thing I hear is when someone says 'Ibuilt it all to code'"...taking the attitude that the code is the absolute minimum for construction. His italics.All the best...
To those who know - this may be obvious. To those who don't - I hope I've helped.
In the podunk town where I live the position is hired by the county board.
In 40 years of doing this stuff state wide I have only had one I thought was worthy of retroactive birth control. Most were helpful. Some were dumber than rocks but they just collected the money and pretty much stayed out of everybodys way. The big trick is to avoid getting off on the wrong foot with any of them.
true story city hired new inspector he looked at forms and said the rebar waslooking rusty, made everybody oil rebar before pouring.
So brownbagg, what did ya get the inspector for xmas ?????????
I've resisted replying to this thread because of the nightmare of an inspector my county has as its chief inspector. Not only is the chief inspector a joke, but the field crews are pretty much sons of a joke.
Until states and counties make requirements of the inspectors to have some sort of formal education in architecture, building, etc., and or a substantial number of years in proof of ethical building practices, then its nothing but a joke.
If I happen to offend someone with this observation/conclusion then you might want to look in the mirror and show proof of lacking in jokeness. I can only speak for those jokers I unfortunately have had to deal with.