Building permit?! I don’t need no stinking building permit!!!
Do I?
All I wanted to do was make a couple of improvements to my completely unfinished basement. You know, add a laundry room, mechanical room, a sound-proofed place to watch TV complete with resilient channel, maybe a wet bar and an excercise room, a large closet, a very large closet for my wife’s stuff, and an a fairly large room for my tools with a ventilation system. A foyer with stained glass side-lights I made based on Frank Lloyd Wright patterns and an elliptical ceiling. Oh, I needed to up-grade the electrical service to accomodate the added demands of this second house in the basement – oooops, there’s also a full bath included in this improvement.
I have a Michigan builder’s license to cover me for handyman work I do. That kind of work seldom needs permitting. I convinced myself that since this was work I was doing for myself and it was just a small job anyway, forget the permit. In my last utility bill, there was an article included in their newsletter that caught my eye: “… severe penalties for work performed without proper permits.”
Hmmmmmm. It must be the time of year the garbage company reports to the City though what’s at the curb in terms of 2X4 cut-offs, short pieces of 12-2, drywall chunks, empty joint compound buckets – stuff ambitious guys might throw away from their winter hobby.
I’m going to look into this Monday. The job has passed the framing, plumbing, electrical part and some of it is closed in. Come Hell or high water, I’m going downtown (Mishawaka, IN) and pray for the best.
Anybody been in this kind of problem?
Replies
The purpose of permits around here is to raise your property tax. They will win, everytime. what going happen when you try to sell and they start looking for permits. You can pay now or pay later.
Peach,
Glad I live in an area where new construction is the inspector's bread and butter............and no records exist for homes built prior to '70.
Not that I don't do stuff to (try for way better than) code, but pull a permit for every little thing? Like some municipalities require.
Guy I work with lives in one of those that requires a walk-though when you sell your house, and the town has a record of everything. # of outlets in each room etc. etc. One extra and you get a fine. Don't even think about an "unapproved rec-room.
Jon
Well, around here, and I suspect everywhere, you'd need a permit or two for that kind of work, but I'm suspecting you know that and were typing with a bit of sarcasm.
So, what to do?
Assess what "they" know. Do they know that your basement was unfinished when you bought the place? If so, how do they know that? Most home inspections pre sale are carried out by private inspectors, around here at least.
When you sell, will "they" be able to prove that you have done anywork? I don't think that the mere fact that your house will sell for more than when you bought it can be considered "evidence" in any way.
Now assess the possibilities. From what I understand, you have two (basic) options:
1- 'Fess up and get a permit.
2- Finish up and move on.
In #1, they will be steamed and maybe give you a small amount of credit for your honesty, but put a complete stop to the work, require all the things you would need at the start, make you open the closed areas, and probably tack on a fine for good measure.
In #2, two possible outcomes..nothing, or discovery. Discovery is probably a crapshoot, but will carry a fine at least equalt to, and probably double of the original permit fee. An inspector will probably come out, and you will need to rectify whatever he doesn't like. OR, they may play hardball, and walls get opened. I think that in my area, I've heard the scenario is more money oriented, but who knows!
If there is no way for them to prove anything, then perhaps laying low is the answer. I would check their web site rather than calling or visiting, so as to not trigger any undue interest in you.
If, there is a discovery after the fact, ignorance may be an out, but it could get dicey. If they know that you know better because they have a record of your questioning them, well, you're toast!
No matter what, make sure your "t"s are crossed and your "i"s are dotted work quality and code-wise. And be super nice to any inspectors you happen to run into!
Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
See: http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=40831.1
Refer to the what a maroon thread.
Who Dares Wins.
As the homeowner, I would just keep going. Homeowners usually get away w/ alot more when caught.
Around my area, I'll never worry about an inspector.
But, every 5 or 10 years the Town Tax assessors will come around and measure.
No fines, but the taxes will increase if things get bigger or improved too much.
Jeff
"...has passed the framing, plumbing, electrical part..."
Where I am (Oregon) the inspections are called off the permit.
Last year, in my little burg, a commercial building caught fire due to an incinerator flue that was improperly installed without a permit. Three local firemen died in the fire when the building collapsed on them. Two of the dead were volunteers. The building owner and the contractor (actually, a really good guy) are both in jail with big civil lawsuits pending.
Yeah, permits are about money, but they ensure inspections and adherence to codes for safety purposes.
Spend the money, get a permit, grumble a little, have a beer....and sleep well!
>> ... but they ensure inspections and adherence to codes for safety purposes.
Ensure? You know better than that. How many stories have been posted just on this forum about permitted and inspected projects that nevertheless did not comply with the safety codes.
You have a point, but ideally, at least, the inspection process is to provide some 3rd party oversite and usually it works. Catastrophic failures and/or injuries or worse in a structure signed off by a building official places some (not all) of the liability on the inspecting jurisdiction.
In the case I cited where the firemen lost their lives, had a permit been pulled and the work approved, the contractor and building owner would have probably escaped incarceration and would have had, at the very least, some defense against the civil lawsuits... the city involved was certainly sweating bullets until they confirmed there was no permit ever filed.
(It was a tragedy no matter how it came about, a tragedy that might not have occurred if a $150 permit had been filed and inspections made to verify flue clearances, etc.).
I thought George Orwell was dead.
I seem to give someone that problem every couple a days . Just last week a guy was forming a driveway by himself on a busy street.
Got a permit ?
Nah , I didnt know I needed one.
Yep, its 5 dollars .
Tim Mooney
we do not have to have a permits for driveway, patios or sidewalks, here.
If it's your home and they come a knock'n. Try saying "Remodeling here? Oh no, that from another job I'm working on"
When doing work on the house it is always a good idea to offer to "buy lunch" for the garbage men. $40 well spent, I treat mine a at Christmas every year, show a little respect for a job that must not be a lot of fun. More often if there is a lot of work going on, their job is made harder so I don't mind "buying Lunch"