Photo essay on building a modern-style house the hard way on the shore of Japan’s Lake Biwa. Finally we get started with the build, after about four years of planning, including many posts and threads here on BT. Many thanks to all, because I didn’t know nothin’ about building science when I first came to this forum.
This is going to be my house, and a contractor is going to erect the shell, which I will finish off. I will be doing finish work, some of the mechanicals, built-ins, stairs, 27 french doors (!) tilework, etc. I wanted to do the whole thing, but the lender doesn’t like that idea one bit.
Here’s the architect’s pretty mockup:
Edited 11/27/2008 2:26 am by talkingdog
Replies
Here's the spec: Japanese-modern style architecture on 36†module (910 mm) with 9' & 11' ceilings, custom, monopour slab on steel pilings, seismic spec equivalent to California. Barrier-free rated.
Foundation has borate-treated polyiso board at perimeter, and there's a "joistless" floor deck, double stud 2x4 framing using pre-cut J-grade SPF lumber, TJIs, "seismic rated" wall board, rockwool insulation in studbays, 1.5" urethane board over tyvek over sheathing, rain screen, 9/16†Nichiha fibercement panels. Flashing procedure is per US Govt. spec with plastic sill pans, windows by YKK, Marvin, and Velux, galvalume coping and roofing, fiberglass waterproofing at terraces. Dunno about exterior finish yet, or gutters, or railings.
Inside we are going to finish off the wallboard with unpainted D-Mix in some places and Erfurt Vlies non-woven wallpaper, painted, in others. Wet areas are mostly getting Forbo linoleum, and most floors will have Kahr’s Linnea single strip.
Bath will be tile over Kerdi with a Toto Air Tub. Toilets Panasonic Arauno (similar to Neorest). Vanities, sinks, and kitchen by IKEA. HVAC by Unico with Renewaire HRV. RHF (kitchen alone) by Rinnai, with hot water via 10 kw Honda MicroCHP with heat exchanger linked to 500 gal storage tank with solar input. Heatnglo SOHO 24 gas fireplace. Kitchen appliances can’t decide. Fire sprinklers by Rehau, CV system by Hideahose, and doorphone by Panasonic. Plumbing is flexible stainless steel water supply lines on a home run layout (I decided to splurge on the plumbing!)
Doors. 8 YKK Eipia J thermally broken aluminum French doors, one custom French entry door, one custom Dutch door, hardware by Baldwin, interior doors custom four-pane French doors in VG spruce or fir, with 3-Form “organics†resin panels.
Stairs will be open riser with individual footlights routed into the underside of each tread by yours truly. Treads are hardwood glulam and fiberglass grating (upper level). Lotta decks and screens, probably done with domestic second growth redwood.
This was the best cost/performance/sustainability package I could put together. Only thing I would change if I could would be to move to an ICF frame, and replace the aluminum windows with wooden throughout.
Edited 11/27/2008 4:03 am by talkingdog
So now that the economy has gone to hell, and my business
is fairly idle, I will have plenty of spare time to work on
this house.The pilings have been driven and now the foundation work is
started. Here's the photo essay, and here's a shot of the nifty
digital transit that the foundation guy sure likes to boast about.
Construction album
View Image
Edited 11/27/2008 3:24 am by talkingdog
Best of luck, this will be interesting.
Don't let them talk you into posting this in their FHB Gallery. No interaction there.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Thanks.Oh, and I forgot one thing in my spec, the high-tech security system --
security by Shiba Inu:
View Image
Edited 11/27/2008 8:48 am by talkingdog
Sweet looking pooch.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Thanks. Very sweet dog who likes to get out and go chasing wild boars
in the woods behind our house.
Wild Boars?
Wow, this is going to be more than just construction education.
thanks and have a Happy Thanksgiving...............is that ok to say over there?A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
She will take on a black bear, too, but we have fewer
of those.
Keep talking, I keep learning.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Lately she's been going crazy at night, and I went outside
to one night to find a ten point buck standing there in
the yard (this is not the same location as the jobsite --
I don't expect any deer there). First deer I have seen in
20 years here.
Something like this, a white tail deer.
View Image
Edited 11/27/2008 7:48 pm by talkingdog
I'm amazed. Here when I think of Japan I think of rice.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I think of volcanoes and cars.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Alright, here's another that popped in my mind this a.m.
Short par 5's.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Just popped in???That game is never far enough out of your mind to have any need to 'pop' into it!;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Well sir, in my recuperation stage-part one, I've been mulling over some marketing strategies for the upcoming looking bad here in the shadow of motown new year. So necessarily, recreational thoughts haven't been in the forefront.
However, yesterday up to 40 and partly sunny-no wind-made me itchy to get out there and whack'em. Surgeon says no, evidently still a chance for a gusher with certain exertion. Must be why they laid down the law on work too. No driving is a bit harder to understand. At any rate-exam next Tuesday won't come quick enough.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
putting practice first then
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I could of course go work on my short game. Chip and putt. Shouldn't have any problem keeping my head down.
There would be that temptation to grab the driver and a couple shag balls..........
I'm going out in the van for the first time-might go up river and look at a potential job. It's exterior and could wait-but what the hey-with enough outerwear-could be done this winter. Don't have as much choice with making things seasonal.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Funny, I think of mushroom clouds.
That looks more like a cross between a goat and an elk
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I just found this thread. Looks like a good one.
First deer I have seen in 20 years here.
We have too many deer around here. They have a bad habit of running out in front of your car when you least expect it.
jt8
A year from now you may wish you had started today. -- Karen Lamb
To put the deer thing in context, my house is a ten minute walk from a subway station, so you might almost want to say it's urban deer.We don't have too many deer, despite the lack of either hunters or wolves, but we do have too many monkeys and boars. These latter are hunted.
Edited 12/26/2008 9:19 pm by talkingdog
How does the Shiba temperment compare to cousin Akita ?
we use to raise and show Akitas and Shibas were very rare at the time. Only saw a few in durring the time we were on the circuite with Akitas.
If the Shiba is as protective of thier family as the Akita, you have the best natural security you can get.
I've never lived with an Akita so I cannot say, but
my Shiba is very friendly, good with the kids, and
barks a lot at outsiders. But this is not a watchdog,it's a hunting dog. It is
pretty good at catching mice, too. Not as good as a
cat but better than the other dogs I've had.
Akitas were used to hunt the Japanes black bear and just about any other game, including birds. The temperment is described as aloof and guarded with strangers but extremely bonding to those that own them. They can be dog aggressive, and in fact use to be shown by sparring them in Japan. They have a natural guard instinct and should never be trained as guard dog. For the most part they are quite on the hunt and only bark to alert the other dogs and hunters that prey is located.
If you are interested, you can find a tarrific story on one particular Akita that was so bonded to it's owner that after the owners sudden death the dog continued to meet the daily train that the owner commuted on, for years after the owner died. there is a monument to the breed at train station, but I can't recall which city. They were declared a national living monument sometime shortly after WW II.
My wife's baby sitter when she was a child in Japan was a mixed breed Akita. She could be left almost completely unattended for hours, with only the dog watching her, according the my MIL.
My best buddy in the world was a male Akita that was a sorry exanple of the "show quality" of the breed, and he forgot he was suppose to be "aloof". He never met anyone that I introduced to him that he didn't like. Yet I saw him at his best several times when he thought that there was some threat to me or anyone in our family. It is an awesome site to see a 130 pound cuddly beast of play turn into and animal that will challenge and fight a bear. That was my beloved Kuma.
The little I know of the Shiba is that they are much like thier larger cousin, the Akita. Your dog most likely has all the natural guad instinct it needs, and don't be surprized if it ever transform to the beast to protect you and your family. Having once been directly involved in a dog fight with a much smaller breed, I can assure you that the Shibas' smaller size is no hindrance to thier ability to protect. I would cring at the prospect of ever facing one.
Best of luck with you home construction.
The legend about the Shibas was that the nobility them would use them to protect their small children when there was a war invasion.
talkingdog,
A surveyor's transit for a foundation crew! Amazing!
A factor that got me into doing my own foundation work was subcontractors who must have been levelling their work from the surface in their rum bottles and laying it out in cubits and spans.
Very interesting thread.
Ron
I enjoyed the rum bottles suggestion.
Ron, I live in a predominantly FLAT area.
I can trust only a couple foundation men to produce fairly consistent jobs. When we did our house, I imported (talked into) a mason buddy from the mts of North Carolina to come lay our block.
Figured he'd have a better chance of doing a good job on our stepped hillside foundation.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Cal,
Have you ever made the pilgramage to Ralphie Parker's house? It's time.
Ron
Man, Phyllis Parker lives up the next block, but I don't think the husband is named Ralph.
Where is this of which you speak?A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Calvin,
Ralphie was the hero of "A Christmas Story". This is the 25th anniversary of the film, which was filmed right around the corner from you, I believe.
Ron
Well, I'll be............
And when I go up the drive-any idea which way to turn?
Was this filmed in Toledo.
I must be a real numb nuts-I remember the movie w/Jimmy Stewart-but not the name............
You'll have to fill me in w/a little more detail.
Otherwise-it's that damn google.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
OK, the red rider bbgun.
The one from 83 was filmed in Cleveland-west 11th st.
Now I'll have to go back and see what the one I probably watched as a kid has as info.
Merry Christmas.
We try not to miss Clark Griswald.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I think the Japanese foundations are pretty consistent. Most of the residential foundations are intended for precut post and beam or else steel, so they really have to be level and precise, as there is not a lot of fudge factor. And of course the result looks really pretty.I am worried about two things on the foundation: 1) possible presence of salt in the mix, carried in by the sand, which is washed sea sand. They claim that the sand is certified to test out at a tolerable level of salt, but I am not so sure. 2) too much water being added to mix to facilitate pumping. I want them to pour from a bucket, not use a pump, but they claim the mix is going to be the same, and that moreover, these days there are no problems with weak concrete resulting from this. Again, I am not so sure. Looks like I am not going to get my bucket pour though.
talkingdog,
You can pump low-slump concrete very successfully using plasticizers in the mix.
Ron
Plasticizers? Must be what they are talking about.
I was talking with Plumbill the other night at a bar in Seattle. Couple of other BT guys there also. He was/is working on a job where all measurements are center of wall framing. I guess I could do it, but I'd be snapping a lot of offsets so I could shoot down bottom plates.
I have done some of this center wall framing, and it is a pain in the neck. Now, if I were working with post and beam, then I think it would definitely be the way to go.I got a little gadget the other day at the store, a little clear plastic angle marking gauge, which makes it very easy to mark 2x stock center lines. Ingenious. I will have to post a photo of this useful little doodad.
Please explain: double stud framing; J-grade lumber; air tub."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I am surprised you didn’t ask about the “joistless†deck.Double stud framing is kind of hokey, but that's the way the Japanese do it. First you build the wall out of studs as normal, then you stick another stud in the bay and stagger nail it in.Alternatively, you can build out of 2x6s. Any house that is three stories has to have either double studs or 2x6s. Normally, space is at such a premium, as most houses are slivers, that people forgo the 2x6s and use double stud, as the cost is about the same. It saves you a little space inside. This house is relatively spacious, but we spent so much time optimizing hallways and stairs for 2x4 width, when they brought up the requirement of going with 2x6 I said forget it.J-grade lumber: cosmetically perfect. It's straight and has very few knots and no other defects. I like to call it "furniture grade framing lumber," because you can make very nice rustic furniture out of almost every piece. Available in SPF or Doug fir, but I only ever see SPF.This is also kind of hokey. American framers over here complain about the J-grade lumber as being good looking but not necessarily as strong as the stuff used back in the States, with all its defects.Interestingly enough, I think they are not making much J-Grade lumber in the US any more. Most of the stuff we get is from Europe, from Germany. Perfect, German-made 2x4s. heeheeThe "furniture grade" label could also apply to the structural plywood. Very nice stuff. Oh, I forgot to mention, we are using some sort of recycled particleboard called "Nova Panel" for the sheathing. Better than OSB and greener. Most builders still use structural plywood, and OSB is frowned on.TOTO Air Bath: this is a whirlpool that uses air, not water jets. The funny thing is that I am going to import a TOTO USA bath to Japan, as the Japanese TOTO air baths cost three times as much. Same goes for flat screen TVs, etc.
Edited 11/28/2008 9:43 pm by talkingdog
Double stud framing is kind of hokey, but that's the way the Japanese do it. First you build the wall out of studs as normal, then you stick another stud in the bay and stagger nail it in.
You may have already answered this, but is the double stud framing used to improve your ability to insulate exterior walls? In some of the discusions on how to improve the insulation and sound proofing of a wall, some people have mention double framing. I think most folks around here avoid is because of the additional expense.
Or do you double frame the interior walls too?
jt8
A year from now you may wish you had started today. -- Karen Lamb
The double studs are to increase the compressive strength of the wall.Looking at the framing plan more carefully, the double studs are only on the first floor, and they did plan to put them in the partition walls too. My architect requested that these partition wall studs be taken out and put in certain strategic areas in the second floor stuctural walls.
A comment on my spec. I suppose many of you know the Toto Neorest toilet, which is a $3000 electronic marvel marketed also in the States and elsewhere. Although the Washlet (bidet for the bum) is de rigeur for all new toilet installations in Japan nowadays, most people go for a sticker price of less than $1000, which rules out Neorest.
Lately, Panasonic has decided to muscle in on the toilet action, and have come out with a line called "Arauno" that is more advanced than Neorest. They have also been spending millions of dollars on prime time advertising for this line. Toilets are big business.
Recently my MIL put the Arauno toilet in her house and came back raving about the self-cleaning feature. Seems like a no-brainer, but none of the other makers, Toto, Inax, et al, have a self-cleaning toilet. And since we hate cleaning toilets...
I found that I could get the low-end Arauno for less than $1000 in a net shop, so despite the fact that I was originally intending to go low tech, I caved. Here are some illustrations (sorry about the lousy translation) of how they use new materials, detergent, and new hydraulics to clean the toilet:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fpanasonic.jp%2Fsumai%2Ftoilet%2Falauno%2Ftokuchou%2Findex.html&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ja&tl=en
Here is an English article in BBC about Japanese toilets (seems recycled, same story appears in various outlets every couple months) that misses the point that the killer feature is the self-cleaning function.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/7750870.stm
As a footnote, since my current house is very OLD, and since the current toilet is very old-fashioned and very outdoors, I'd say that the real killer feature would be the heated seat, not the self-cleaning. What I would give for a heated seat this winter.
Edited 11/29/2008 10:13 pm by talkingdog
Radiant infloor even when kept away of the wax ring does wonders in eliminating the shock of a cold seat.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Shock of a cold seat? My current toilet is fully exposed to the outside. There was a Japanese celebrity, who became famous for being 100 years old and very cute, who said, when asked "The greatest invention of the 20th C. was the heated toilet seat."The Panasonic toilet has some energy saving technologies such as an instant heated toilet seat. That is, it is supposed to heat up instantly the moment your bum contacts the seat. But I cannot imagine how that would work. Seems you would still get a momentary shock from the cold seat.
We carpeted our seats in the winter-in the outhouse.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Re toilet seat, SM sytro foam, IS instint warm, even at -30 c
Lemme see if I can tie this post into your styrofoam.We poured the stemwalls today, and here are some pictures.
In the first picture you can see a screw set in the wet mud, and actually a tiny bit of blue foam under it, submerged. This was the first time I or the architect had seen this screw trick.
View Image
So here is a quiz: what is the screw for and how is it used?
View Image
Holding a whole box of these screw floats.
Using a big cordless sex toy from Makita.
View Image
Using a big cordless sex toy from Makita.
Edited 12/11/2008 11:10 am by talkingdog
Well.... that is interesting, I`ve done to much concrete work over the years. Looking at the pics, I`d say some how?? they use them to check the elevation when finishing top of the wall. They did smooth that down some I hope. Nice looking forms, makes a guy want to build right on top of them.
I guess nobody else wants to take a stab at the quiz.OK, they have magnets stuck to the side of the forms to determine level, but these are a little difficult to see, so after pouring the cement and before adding the self-leveling layer to the top, they add these screws on little floats of foam, then they zap each one of them with the laser to adjust the level. The foam helps in adjusting up and down, since just a screw alone wouldn't stand up in the cement. Then the self-leveler is poured up to the top of the screw.Result is a perfectly level surface that is right on the money.
You're saying there is another pour after the walls are done, self-leveling compound of some sort intended to perfectly level the tops of the walls? What is the material? Is it poured from a bucket or a chute, or pumped? Are the walls dry first, or do they go right ahead and pour on top of the wet wall pour?
Very cool either way.
Yeah, that's right, they pour in some sort of very fine sanded grout compount right on top of this wet wall, about a half inch of it, called "self-leveler." They mix it on the site and pour out of buckets by hand.Until recently, they would wait until the walls were cured, then attach screed boards to level and then trowelled in some mortar to do this, but this self-leveling is obviously much faster.
Another thing, usually they will insert the anchor bolts into the wet cement, but in this case they were wired in, and they used cranked anchor bolts -- these are bolts that are shaped sort of like a skinny question mark so that they can be routed around the rebar and end up with the threads in-line with the rebar. So, it's a kind of crooked-looking anchor bolt, like you can see at the link below.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/talkingdog/3100518480/sizes/o/in/set-72157609659240646/
Edited 12/12/2008 6:46 pm by talkingdog
The reason I could't guess is that we set the forms level, and pour to the top of the form. That way you have rock admix right up to the surface, so you don't sacrifice strength at the top of the pour. I can't see any virtue in doing it their way, but I'm sure there's something I'm missing!
We use self-leveler only in retrofit situations, never with a fresh pour.
Anchor bolts tied to rebar is pretty standard on commercial buildings here in seismic California - not so much on residential.View Image bakersfieldremodel.com
Ok, here is how the top of the wall looks after the compound has set, screwhead just visible.
View Image
Edited 12/13/2008 11:17 am by talkingdog
That's an interesting approach, but it strikes me as more work. We can get almost the same thing by being careful to pour and screed up to a grade strip that's tacked to the inside of the form panels. Since they are using metal forms they obviously can't tack a strip inside.
If they hadn't used the SLC, what would be the tolerance on the concrete?
I don't know what the standard is, but I heard one time that they aim for a millimeter or two.They don't tack a strip inside the forms, instead they stick in magnets. But these are grey colored, just like the cement and forms, so very hard to see during the process. Maybe it would be easier to get colorful refrigerator magnets.
Edited 12/13/2008 8:14 pm by talkingdog
"but I heard one time that they aim for a millimeter or two."
don't know of any laser that is that accurate (in the trades anyway)
What I see in the Hitachi catalog is that their laser
layout tools are plus or minus one mm per 15 feet, which
is about right for the small sized Japanese houses. Normally
they will be about 15 feet wide and maybe 20 or 25 feet long.
It's in the ballpark, I think. But I should defer to your
expertise on this.
Cool build! We'll want to see the full photo sequence.
Oh - want to integrate some beautiful hand-made marine art tile? DW does beautiful work, and also to order -
View Image
View Image
Forrest - pimpin'
Edited 11/28/2008 8:45 am ET by McDesign
.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
It's sitting here! PM me your address again - I can't find my jigsaw box of goodies - got the blades; misplaced your box!
!!!!!
Forrest
Forgive my "friendly reminder", but whenever I see those tiles I fall in love with the art again.
And after meeting your wife, fell in love with her smile.
I'm thinking you might consider a name change for the work room.
Smiling Tile.
Incoming message.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Beautiful tile is pretty far from my mind at the moment.Just trying to get the foundation done the way I want.
Today they finished spreading the gravel and putting in the plastic. Next, the rebar gets tied. They are going to pour the slab, then form up the stemwalls on that and pour again.Attached picture shows defining difference in Japanese construction techniques -- center-of-wall measurement. Everything in the project is measured from the centerline of the structural members in the walls. This can make for some awkward moments, as we'll see later. Look at this picture, which is looking down at the base of the footing from the top of the formwork, and you can see faintly the black ink line on the mortarbed just below the line of rebar. This is the center line, and it gets carried all the way up as the wall rises.
View Image
Edited 11/28/2008 12:08 pm by talkingdog
Forest that is some great tile.I've literally looked at hundreds and hundreds of homes and have never seen anything like it.I've got several friends who are interior decorators and I'll tell them about itApologies to the OP for thread drift
Drift is OK, after all, what could be more boring than
foundations?
Time for a little reality check.I posted earlier that the center-of-wall thing was Japanese.
Now an architect friend points out that this is used across
the industry.Do y'all lay out your framing by snapping centerlines and
measuring out from there?
I have seen wall layouts done off an x-y axis snapped on the slab, but only in commercial. And that was the centerline of the building, not the framing."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Ok, here is an illustration of the queer effect of this centerline framing, the filler strip (heh!) that goes on around the perimeter of your deck plywood.View Image
Edited 11/28/2008 9:50 pm by talkingdog
here is an illustration of the queer effect of this centerline framing...
I think they use that method quite a bit around the Bay Area.View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product†– Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
here is an illustration of the queer effect of this centerline framing...
I think they use that method quite a bit around the Bay Area.
Congratulations!
Huck receives the much coveted MrT/Brownbagg OneLiner Award.
Saaalute!!!View Image View Image
94969.19 In the beginning there was Breaktime...
Edited 12/29/2008 2:26 am ET by rez
delayed reaction - surprised you caught that!"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
rez don't miss much ! :) so stay focused
I am enjoying your thread. It is interesting to see how building is done in Japan and the offhand comments are intriguing as well (Flat panel TVs cost more over there than here?).
Toyotas cost more, too.As for building costs, I got a price on the lumber package
from a US distribuor back in 2007 of around $12K for this
2300 s.f. house, if I imported the lumber myself.Meanwhile, the builder ends up getting $36K for the lumber
and I count myself lucky.
Does Japan have a tariff on imported lumber?
I am not sure what the taxation is, but there is a difference
in the duty on containers filled with straight lumber and
containers with house packages, that is, lumber, nails, insulation,
windows, etc.Even with the duty it's cheaper to ship lumber from Germany
than to grow it here. Imported 2x material is about $500 per cubic
meter while domestic anything is at least twice that.Canada and EU countries along with Russia seem to be undercutting
US prices on wood, so I think there is a lot less US product
imported nowadays, especially since Japan is no longer dependent
on Douglas fir for heavy beams (now use LVLs and LSLs).
Just a few comments.
One, make sure they tape the Tyvek, and tell them to keep the staples to a minimum or use the proper fasteners.....they don't tape Tyvek in most parts of Japan, and they use 1m lenghts, so there are a lot of joints....
Two, the filler strips for the floor deck are not a really good idea, although all of the panel companies here in Japan are using them now. They allow the framers to go with a full sheet of plywood from the wall center line, without a start cut, but the strips are just fillers. I don't like them because they don't allow the plywood sheathing to properly hold the joists from bowing out.
Three, the "double studs" are one the first floor, right? Aren't they there because the second floor 2x10 joists are double?
Either way the house will end up framed much stronger than a usual 2x4 house. Just watch for other areas where the house is a lot weaker than 2x4 homes built in North America. I've been building here for a long time and as "beautiful" as the houses go up here in Japan, they are still lacking in a lot of areas..
SS
Tatekata, I was wondering when you were going to show up!Actually not Tyvek, Nichiha Moen wrap, I dunno -- It's going between the polyiso (which will be taped) and the sheathing. Does it really need to be taped in that case?I am more worried about the window flashing. The way they do it in Japan is totally bogus. One 2" strip of double sided butyl tape over the window flanges and then stick the housewrap on that. Yechhh. Double studs are throughout. This house is very unusual in having 9' or higher ceilings everywhere, and we discovered that the regs require either double stud or 2x6 in that case. Personally I would prefer having 4x4s with the sheathing centered on that, but it's not Code.Where are the areas where it will be framed weaker?
I like to see the Tyvek (or their equivalent here) taped, no matter what. Window installation will vary with carpenters. I've done seminars on proper window installation in the past, and all over Japan have seen some pretty crazy stuff, most of it originating with ignorance, then the second stage is the Japanese companies replacing proper North American products with their own cheaper versions of the product. The tape they use around the windows is a good example. If I don't tape the RO's and install/tape myself, the TYVEK guys will just use 50mm cheap, really thin double tape (it isn't butyl either). I use 100mm (4") wide bitumous membrane tape for my window installation, plus caulking.
As for the weaker framing, well, 455 pitch for the studs is a start. Also, in Canada the guys I know use 19mm T&G subfloor, here they use 15mm T&G. With treated wood, the mudsills for example, very few carpenters/companies will specify proper fasteners for the treated wood. I could go on an on about many little things, but, alas, there is no time...
I will offer a few things to watch out for, or at least suggestions:
1. Insulation. You mentioned Rock wool. Its most likely the stuff in the plastic bags, right? I've used it in a lot of houses. Make sure its installed with the insulation tight up against the framing members. The plastic will stretch and a lot of carpenters will make it look really nice by pulling it way across each stud, but the rock wool insulation inside the bag isn't stretching, and you get invisible gaps (because you can't see through the plastic bag). I've stopped using it now, because I found a lot of the insulation inside the bags is actually a little less than the width of the studs. Get the guys to use 100, which is used for ceilings, its best to use that throughout the house. I've now switched to a product from Australia called Lamb's Breath Wood. Its real wool insulation. Its so easy to work with, comes in long rolls that you cut to the length of the ceiling spans or wall H's. No itchy feeling like you get with the rock wool either.
2. Are you having them tape the drywall? Its a good idea if possible. Putty in the cracks is the norm here, but some guys do taping before the wallpaper. Also, if the carpenters do any dropped ceilings, make them use 2x2's or some kind of KD lumber. A lot of the guys I work with here tend to use cedar, but its still wet when they install it, and the screws pop like crazy in the first year.
3. Interior door installation. Its a good idea to get them to raise the doors more than the usual 10mm (less than 1/2") from the flooring. I've been to lots of sites here to cut doors that swelled with the humidity in the summer and started hitting the flooring.
4. Big one. Most of the carpenters I've met here will run flooring right to the bottom plates of the walls. Many carpenters will do the wood flooring before the drywall too. I'd watch that, there are tonnes of harwood floors torn out after a few years because of buckling and too much noise.... improper installation being a main factor.
5. Tenkenko. Attic and foundation hatches. Most of them used here are uninsulated. Its a huge heat loss source for the house. The electricians here always ask me for more than one location of each, but I always say no. I attach foam to the insides of the pre-made hatches (610mm x 610mm), and use a weatherstripping around the inside edge to stop drafts.
Hope the above helps. By the way, I agree with you about the older carpenters here being better, but I hire crews to help frame houses with me, and the younger guys are much easier to use, teach, etc. The older guys just don't want to learn, and although they are very good with their chisels, hand planes, etc., they aren't really qualified to take charge of the house construction anymore because of lack of education. Younger carpenters these days are a little more educated. The older generation guys did a really good job of making the house "look perfect" for the turnover, but the lifespan of the house and of their handiwork was a different story. I'm not easily impressed here when I see work that looks perfect. The standards here are really high for tradesmen.... but it has to go further than just being skin deep.
Didn't mean to write a book.....
SS
Gee tatekata, I am going to have to frame that reply and put over my desk.>I like to see the Tyvek (or their equivalent here) taped, no matter >what. Window installation will vary with carpenters. I've done sOK, I have several Marvin doublehungs that need to be installed, and I am real skeered that they are going to end up too tight. I have never seen a Marvin here that wasn't painfully tight.>The tape they use around the windows is a good example. If I don't >tape the RO's and install/tape myself, the TYVEK guys will just use >50mm cheap, really thin double tape (it isn't butyl either). I use >100mm (4") wide bitumous membrane tape for my window installation, >plus caulking.I've spec'd Tyvek Sakibari Kouhou, so I think I can insist that they use genuine Tyvek flashing tape and Flex tape. What is the brand of the 100 mm tapoe you use?What is your opinion on the Fukubi tape products?>As for the weaker framing, well, 455 pitch for the studs is a >start. Also, in Canada the guys I know use 19mm T&G subfloor, here >they use 15mm T&G. With treated wood, the mudsills for example, >very few
>carpenters/companies will specify proper fasteners for the treated >wood. Looks like I am getting 28 mm on the first floor but 15mm on the second floor. We may end up putting another layer of 12 mm over that for the RFH-less zones on second floor.As for the ACQ corrosion issue, the many Japanese I have talked to about this are totally unaware, builders, architects, etc. And in the Japan Simpson literature the warnings about corrosion remain untranslated. In fact I am not even sure they are using ACQ, as I had one builder insist his mudsills were CCA.Anyway, we can't use Simpson hangers on this, because they are not certified, and instead must use some flimsy chromate hangers. I have told them I want stainless nails going into the mudsill, and I intend to put tape or something on the part of the hangers that contact the mudsill.They think I am bat$hit crazy... Likewise everybody is unaware of the surfactant-to-housewrap issue. Same for Bisphenol-A and polycarbonate or PVC. No awareness. The Japanese seem to be at least 20 if not 30 years behind on these various issues, though, so I am sure you will get your chance to say I told you so at some point... >1. Insulation. You mentioned Rock wool. Its most likely the stuff >in the plastic bags, right? I've used it in a lot of houses. Make >sure its installed with the insulation tight up against the framing >members. Dunno about the spec of the rock wool. I may import and install my own unfaced batts. They think I am crazy to do rock wool on top of the exterior foam insulation. But I have a Manual J calc in support of this idea. We are doing Simple Caulk and Seal drywall, and once again they think this is cwazy.My builder also knows nothing about acoustical sealing of drywall.>Get the guys to use 100, which is used for ceilings, its best to use >that throughout the house. Roger willco.>I've now switched to a product from Australia called Lamb's Breath >Wood. Looks nice, but isn't that stuff pricey?>2. Are you having them tape the drywall? Its a good idea if >possible. Putty in the cracks is the norm here, but some guys do >taping before the wallpaper. At this point me and the girl will be doing D-mix, if I can get my hands on some joint compound for less than $80 a bucket. But I may have the paper hangers do the hard stuff, the high ceilings and the stairwell. What is the name of the tape that you recommend for this -- is it the fiberglass stuff? Wish I could find some nice paper tape here.I was thinking that it might be nice to do all the rock with SS screws, as I seem to have seen a lot of fasteners bleeding through the wallpaper after houses have aged some. What do you think of that idea -- SS drywall screws? I am also insisting on stainless for everything on the exterior.>Also, if the carpenters do any dropped ceilings, make them use 2x2's >or some kind of KD lumber. A lot of the guys I work with here tend
>to use cedar, but its still wet when they install it, and the screws >pop like crazy in the first year.They are dropping the first floor ceiling on SPF 2x6s. I think the second floor gets screwed up to the 2x10s in the roof deck.When I first came to Japan I got bitten in the a$$ by that green lumber. I was totally used to KD lumber so I got blindsided when the green stuff arrived. It looked dry, but...Speaking of which, the framing finishes in January, and then there will be a couple of months while I deal with my HVAC, sprinklers, CV etc. before the rock goes in. I suppose things will be pretty dry in late March when they rock. Should I be worried about nail pops in the SPF? Should I be running heaters in the house to dry things out more?>3. Interior door installation. Its a good idea to get them to >raise the doors more than the usual 10mm (less than 1/2") from the >flooring. I've been to lots of sites here to cut doors that swelled >with the humidity in the summer and started hitting the flooring.I am building and installing the doors, so will bear that in mind.What do you think about the so-called 3-way hinges? They look kind of cheesy, but I wonder if they don't make your life easier.>4. Big one. Most of the carpenters I've met here will run flooring > right to the bottom plates of the walls. Many carpenters will do
> the wood flooring before the drywall too. I'd watch that, there I had this very discussion about wall gap space with the builder and he thought I was crazy, again. Thanks for the confirmation.>the house "look perfect" for the turnover, but the lifespan of the >house and of their handiwork was a different story. I'm not easily I live right next to the oldest wooden building in Kyoto Prefecture, the last wooden Heian Era pagoda. So I do know that they are capable of building structures that can last well over 1000 years in a harsh environment -- if they have primo materials.However, I think the problem the modern day Japanese have is with using low spec materials. This is widespread across all industries. Cosmetically perfect but not engineered for a long service life. The SPF 2x4s are a good example. They are already paying top dollar, they could just as well get DF.Worst thing I can name though is the use of inferior glues in their sheetgoods. The stuff falls apart after a time, and I just don't understand why the customer doesn't demand a better product.My philosophy in finishing this house is that I am going to paint everything possible by hand. I don't care if it has that clean, perfect Japanese look.
Not sure if these answers are going to help, but....
OK, I have several Marvin doublehungs that need to be installed, and I am real skeered that they are going to end up too tight. I have never seen a Marvin here that wasn't painfully tight.
AA. The panels should be made with a 12mm gap all around the RO for the spray foam or stuffed glass wool. Get the carpenters to sit the windows on little blocks of 12mm ply then level it, etc. When they nail the outside, tell them not to nail all the holes, every second or so is plenty (especially when you use foam). Use a low expanding window/door foam (enerfoam is best in Japan). Also, don't foam all the way to the interior of the jamb, just the back 2 inches or so, that's enough and you'll be guaranteed the foam won't stress the window.
I've spec'd Tyvek Sakibari Kouhou, so I think I can insist that they use genuine Tyvek flashing tape and Flex tape. What is the brand of the 100 mm tapoe you use?
SLIONTEC, but I get my tape through my framing company, I just spec 100mm tape. Its relatively easy to find in 75mm. http://www.homemaking.jp has it in 75mm.
What is your opinion on the Fukubi tape products?
OK, I guess. I get my tape sent over from Canada when I need to do taping. I use tuck tape.
Looks like I am getting 28 mm on the first floor but 15mm on the second floor. We may end up putting another layer of 12 mm over that for the RFH-less zones on second floor.
AA. You house must be joistless (nedaless in JP) on the first floor. That means they use 28mm T&G plywood right over the mudsills and girders. I've been against that system since they started it. Its to save time/money, but the difference is not that great. When they started building 2x4 homes during the boom here, they used 2x8 1st floor joists. Then slowly they started using 2x6's. Finally, they started using 2x4's, and these days everybody is going directly on the mudsills. It brings the house closer down to the foundation, plus the framers use 75mm regular nails for the decking/walls. That brings us back to the same problem, are those nails proper for nailing into ACQ wood. I've had lots of mudsills come as ACQ for my houses lately, so they are using it in Japan......
As for the ACQ corrosion issue, the many Japanese I have talked to about this are totally unaware, builders, architects, etc. And in the Japan Simpson literature the warnings about corrosion remain untranslated. In fact I am not even sure they are using ACQ, as I had one builder insist his mudsills were CCA.
Anyway, we can't use Simpson hangers on this, because they are not certified, and instead must use some flimsy chromate hangers. I have told them I want stainless nails going into the mudsill, and I intend to put tape or something on the part of the hangers that contact the mudsill.
AA. Its the same old trick with Simpson. They sold the only hangers available for 2x4 houses years ago. Then the Japanese companies copied them, started manufacturing them, and pressured the JIO insurance agencies, etc. to disclude Simpson hangers. Of course, the price of houses went up accordingly....
They think I am bat$hit crazy...
Likewise everybody is unaware of the surfactant-to-housewrap issue. Same for Bisphenol-A and polycarbonate or PVC. No awareness.
The Japanese seem to be at least 20 if not 30 years behind on these various issues, though, so I am sure you will get your chance to say I told you so at some point...
I've been here only 16 years, and I've given up saying I told you so.... my friends in Canada always razz me about me beating my head against brick walls here..... but that's Japan right?
Dunno about the spec of the rock wool. I may import and install my own unfaced batts. They think I am crazy to do rock wool on top of the exterior foam insulation. But I have a Manual J calc in support of this idea. We are doing Simple Caulk and Seal drywall, and once again they think this is cwazy.
AA. I'm not sure of the company name, but there's a place in Hokkaido that does pink unfaced batts of various thicknesses and different stud pitches. I don't think they are that expensive either.
My builder also knows nothing about acoustical sealing of drywall.
>Get the guys to use 100, which is used for ceilings, its best to use >that throughout the house.
Roger willco.
>I've now switched to a product from Australia called Lamb's Breath >Wood.
Looks nice, but isn't that stuff pricey?
Yeah, its really pricey, but I've done a few doctor's houses this year and they all disliked regular insulation. Sure wish I could sell some on ICYNENE spray insulation...
>2. Are you having them tape the drywall? Its a good idea if >possible. Putty in the cracks is the norm here, but some guys do >taping before the wallpaper.
At this point me and the girl will be doing D-mix, if I can get my hands on some joint compound for less than $80 a bucket. But I may have the paper hangers do the hard stuff, the high ceilings and the stairwell. What is the name of the tape that you recommend for this -- is it the fiberglass stuff? Wish I could find some nice paper tape here.
I don't get into taping myself. If it were me, I'd have the mud and tape shipped over LCL. There's a company in Yokohama, IWS, that ships /m3 and gives a flat rate, customs cleared, delivery included, etc. I've seen the mesh tape in stores here, but its horribly expensive.
I was thinking that it might be nice to do all the rock with SS screws, as I seem to have seen a lot of fasteners bleeding through the wallpaper after houses have aged some. What do you think of that idea -- SS drywall screws? I am also insisting on stainless for everything on the exterior.
I've seen the same thing myself, for drywall screws. Try and get them to use the 2x4 specified screws. They are zinc coated, plus are a lot stronger than regular drywall screws. I've often thought the "bleeding" of the screws is a reaction between the screws and that yellow drywall mud they use....if you get mud shipped over, it may be ok.
All stainless fasteners for the exterior is usually a given. Tell them to use stainless roofing nails for the windows, and not to drive the nails in really tight. The siders, etc. should use stainless nails as a given. I use coated stainless nails for exterior projects, but they are really expensive.
They are dropping the first floor ceiling on SPF 2x6s. I think the second floor gets screwed up to the 2x10s in the roof deck.
When I first came to Japan I got bitten in the a$$ by that green lumber. I was totally used to KD lumber so I got blindsided when the green stuff arrived. It looked dry, but...
Speaking of which, the framing finishes in January, and then there will be a couple of months while I deal with my HVAC, sprinklers, CV etc. before the rock goes in. I suppose things will be pretty dry in late March when they rock. Should I be worried about nail pops in the SPF? Should I be running heaters in the house to dry things out more?
No, I wouldn't worry about that until late May. You're up near Biwako right? It gets pretty humid up there in the summer. That being said, kd lumber is the best you can do. Like you said in your earlier posts, the lumber used here is top notch. I've hardly ever seen J-grade or even all #1 grade back home. I just finished putting up a house last week, the studs were Js, but the other stuff was #1 and #2. Its a sign of the times. My bet is you won't see a lot of J-grade here in the future.
I am building and installing the doors, so will bear that in mind.
That makes life easy for the finish carpenters....
What do you think about the so-called 3-way hinges? They look kind of cheesy, but I wonder if they don't make your life easier.
Not really sure what you're talking about, would probably have to hear it in Japanese. I hand-made a lot of doors for this past house, but don't enjoy it much. The door makers around here do a decent job and are really cheap, so I leave doors to them. I have been making a lot of custom stairkits lately, doing all the handrails, newels, treads, etc. on my own, that takes up most of my time at the end of the job, don't have any extra time for doors.
I had this very discussion about wall gap space with the builder and he thought I was crazy, again. Thanks for the confirmation.
>the house "look perfect" for the turnover, but the lifespan of the >house and of their handiwork was a different story. I'm not easily
I live right next to the oldest wooden building in Kyoto Prefecture, the last wooden Heian Era pagoda. So I do know that they are capable of building structures that can last well over 1000 years in a harsh environment -- if they have primo materials.
However, I think the problem the modern day Japanese have is with using low spec materials. This is widespread across all industries. Cosmetically perfect but not engineered for a long service life. The SPF 2x4s are a good example. They are already paying top dollar, they could just as well get DF.
Worst thing I can name though is the use of inferior glues in their sheetgoods. The stuff falls apart after a time, and I just don't understand why the customer doesn't demand a better product.
My philosophy in finishing this house is that I am going to paint everything possible by hand. I don't care if it has that clean, perfect Japanese look.
I've seen lots of magnificent old structures here too, and I agree that things were built well a long time ago. But, I have lost a lot of confidence in the Japanese Post & Beam way of building. You must remember the big earthquake they had in Niigata a few years ago, I remember seeing pics of the old P&B buildings, ryokans, etc. leaning on their sides....
The big problem here these days is the pinch to make things cheaper, and to do everything faster. Japanese companies sold themselves out to China years ago, and now almost all the products going into homes are cheap ####, but they have done it to themselves. Plywood used for framing is actually made here, but it is very inferior to NA stuff. The glue is really bad, but also the stuff gets moldy very easy. I heard before that plywood from Canada gets treated somehow to protect against wetness, etc. They don't do that here in their manufacturing.
Oops, I've gone and written too much again.
Good luck.
SS
Ok, please explain joistless floors."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Let me first say that I am opposed to the system...
To save money, they have created the "joistless" first floor system. The mudsills go on the foundation, get bolted down as usual, girders go in at 910mm (little over 3') between the concrete walls, and the floor sheething goes directly on top of that. They use 28mm really thick stuff to compensate for the lack of joists, and that allows them to use a 910mm pitch instead of the regular 455mm pitch.
I don't agree with the system and don't use it myself. They are definitely not making the 2x4 house system better, but just trying to make it cheaper.
SS
On the subject of joistless. The architect originally designed this house with joists, but because of the setback on the north side, which turned out to be a more restrictive setback than usual (street setback) we had a choice: joists and eight foot ceilings on the first floor or joistless and nine foot. I chose the latter. I hope that does not turn out to have been a bad choice.Now, I have quite a lot of experience not of building new Japanese 2x4 houses but of working on and fixing the old ones. The part of the house that always goes bad first is the crawlspace area, specifically the joists and the ledger that they rest on. I don't know how many floors of this type I have ripped out, bug infested and with rotten nails, and replacedThat said, this crawlspace area is of critical importance to the health of the house. We are spending a lot more money down there than normal -- better insulation, better sealer, foam, nails, etc., on top of which we are conditioning it 24/7 and using it as exhaust plenum for the house's HVAC system. So, I believe that, despite the fact that we are going with this lesser system for architectural reasons, we should be in good shape in terms of durability for the life of the house, which I am expecting is 25 years.
I've now switched to a product from Australia called Lamb's Breath Wood. Its real wool insulation. Its so easy to work with, comes in long rolls that you cut to the length of the ceiling spans or wall H's. No itchy feeling like you get with the rock wool either.
Is cellulose (ground up newspaper) used in Japan? Fiberglass and cellulose are the two most popular insulation materials in my area. And techincally, I suppose fiberglass is a 'mineral wool' product, but I tend to think of the grey, loose fill stuff found in older homes.
jt8
A year from now you may wish you had started today. -- Karen Lamb
Edited 12/26/2008 11:00 am by JohnT8
About the cellulose fiber, yes we have it here, but the prices I saw for installation were on a par with spray foam. Foam board on the exterior was cheaper, and in some ways, better.
Yeah, I'm using the exact same stuff, Lamb's Breath. I bought the 100% wool for the walls, which is really thick but impossible to cut....(I've started using my Insulknife)....and I use the 60% wool, 60% polyester for the ceilings. The mixed stuff is really easy to use and I'm going to start using that for walls and ceilings alike...
Don't find many other types of insulation around though, rock wool, fibreglass, and styrofoam, not many other choices....
SS
After much searching I finally found polyiso in Japan. More firms producing foam board seem to stick with straight urethane, or else XPS. We are using borate-treated Thermax from Inouac.Incidentally, out on the jobsite yesterday, I staged a little demo with the carpenter's cigarette lighter, of attempting to get the polyiso to catch on fire. Carpenter insisted that it would burn, since it was not stamped with "fire resistant" labelling. I got it to melt, and to char a little, but it would not flame with just a lighter. Next, I tried the same thing on a piece of blueboard, which is what they had originally, mistakenly, installed. Of course it flamed up almost instantly.I think that Japanese carpenters, no matter how good they are with wood, are resolutely stupid when it comes to insulation. This is understandable, from the standpoint of their traditional role as workers in wood alone, and their pride in this. However, for some reason, they have been stuck with the job of insulating, and I think it would behoove them to increase their knowledge.One indicator of this happened here. The plans called for insulating the slab perimter and the stem walls, but not to insulate the floor deck (of course). Anybody who bothered to read the installation manual would understand that you insulate either but not both. However, these guys were all geared up to spend a day cutting and fitting foam in between the joists, and needed to be convinced that this was not necessary. And I know this is not an isolated case, because I have seen this before. Basic lack of understanding.Due to all the problems that occurred this week with the insulation, etc, they are behind schedule and must get the floor deck down and tarped over tomorrow, ahead of the long New Year's break (until Jan. 5). I am going to put on my gloves and go out the jobsite and help with the labor and cleanup. It's my fault, with all my picky requirements, that they are behind.
Edited 12/28/2008 2:40 am by talkingdog
Are SIP's a practical option in Japan? In addition to their insulation performance, I have heard that they can withstand substantial winds and I would surmise that they could also stand up to earthquakes.
jt8
A year from now you may wish you had started today. -- Karen Lamb
SIPs, you say? OMG I spent so much time researching and trying to make the SIPs thing work out, but in the end some things were just too far apart, and I had to give up on the idea. Same thing occurred with ICFs. There were three aspects to the problem: a. lack of code approvals, b. lack of architect design expertise c. lack of widespread installer expertise.Now, that being said, I had an American SIPs salesman with a Japan background once tell me that the Japanese produce and consume more SIPs than any other country in the world. Because of the termite problems, however, most of the SIPs are used in the roof, not the walls.
Same thing occurred with ICFs
As much as I like the idea, I find it hard to believe some of their outrageous R claims. I would like to see some REAL research done on the ICF's. Research by a neutral third party rather than one sponsored by the ICF industry (or sponsored by the anti-ICF industry).
From an purely energy efficient point of view, rather than having a sandwich of foam-concrete-foam, you would be better off having the foam all on the outside. That would then allow the concrete to become a massive thermal flywheel to help maintain interior temps.
c. lack of widespread installer expertise
That is a big problem in my area. If there is a "latest and greatest" product or technique... it won't show up here for another 10-20 years.
And our climate has such extremes that some new techniques just won't apply here.
jt8
A year from now you may wish you had started today. -- Karen Lamb
The Japanese do have ICFs, but they are considered by many to be an inferior, "low-cost" alternative to proper concrete construction. Many of the buildings involved in the seismic strength scandal of 2006 were done with ICFs. My architect was very unenthused about ICFs.There is one concrete franchise here that has a patented system involving proprietary plastic forms used on the outside and a two inch XPS foam plus hard 1/4 polyethylene poured-in-place form on the inside. This yields a full-fledged well-insulated concrete building for a low cost.I do not believe the claims made for ICFs, either. And I do not think that a four inch SIP wall would perform better than my inch-and-a-half of polyiso plus three inches of FG. For one thing, my spec does not suffer from thermal bridging.
Edited 12/28/2008 4:16 am by talkingdog
talkingdog,
In the early days of the ICF business there were some outrageous claims made, but the PR people have had their noses rubbed in it often enough that that doesn't happen any more. Now, manufacturers' websites show the thickness of foam and the R-value of the foam - nothing more.
I have seen R-values listed for EPS type IX as high as 4.1/inch, though. I thought it was around 3.4.
I haven't seen any of the crazy claims for some years now.
I don't know why they ever bothered to exaggerate the value of an ICF wall. It's better than a wooden house, if installed correctly.
What was the ICF scandal you referred to?
Ron
Ron, there was no specific ICF scandal here in Japan, but ICFs were part of the background of a truly earthshaking scandal in 2006, the effects of which are still being felt sharply in the construction industry.What happened is that it was discovered that a structural engineer was faking the structural calculations for condominiums, specifically overstating the strength of the steel therein. Then it was discovered that others were also doing this, all in the name of cost cutting, and the system allowed this because of self-regulation (reminds of the current Wall Street, or those the schools in Sichuan province).Very few people know that ICFs were another one of the cost-cutting measures used by some of the firms involved, and the technology thus got a bad name by association, fairly or unfairly, among those who drilled down deep enough to find out about them. I have never actually seen them in use in any project, large or small, here in Kyoto.
Hey Talkingdog:
Just checkin' in from here in Brooklyn. I found this thread this morning.
Looks like things are moving along.
AR
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
-Groucho Marx
I am just back from the jobsite, with a whole load of precious yellow cedar cutoffs in the back of the car.They busted that deck sheathing out, getting the whole thing down by about 2 p.m. This despite the onerous insulating and sealing details I insisted on below the floor.Next, since I am installing Kahr's click lock flooring, in anticipation of possibly removing the whole floor in the future, installing RFH panels, then re-installing, they are putting down a 1/2 inch plywood spacer directly under the wall plates. After the walls are
framed I will install half inch throughout on both floors, except where the RFH goes (still undetermined).Anyway, I am back in the shop now, and for the rest of this week I am going to be a door makin' fool.
The "structural scandal" reminds me, has anyone heard anything further on the NYC concrete testing mess......the story seems not to have had any legs, maybe because of all the financial news of late Kind of symptomatic, when you think of it....bad inspections & falling cranes are the logical extension in the real world to the fraud on Wall Street.
I must have posted this before, but what happened here in Japan with the inspections was precisely what happened on Wall Street. The system was set up so that the various parties would self-inspect and just file reports.On a typical house, there are only two inspections by the building department (actually by a third party proxy), or three if one elects to do undergo a final inspection. Moreover, up to 2007, these inspections were perfunctory, five minute affairs. Rebar, framing, and final, that's all. No inspections of mechanicals whatever.Which is why the builders were surprised that the foundation inspection failed on the first try, and that the inspector actually got down and dirty -- that never happened in the past, but now that people understand that there are real criminal penalties, they are no longer just going through the motions.The architect in the seismic scandal got five years -- even though no building fell down and nobody was hurt in actuality.
Not just in Japan. Arlington Co. Va. at the height of the boom had similar 3rd party inspection, which amounted to self inspection more often than not.
There's something to be said for the Code of Hamurabi way.
"Fox guarding the henhouse."People think they're more evolved, that they are creating a New Paradigm when they do stupid stuff like privatizing regulators. Actually, people haven't gotten any smarter.
Stafford County is still like that.On a commercial project, the County wants to see stamped third party inspections on soil, concrete, structural steel, and lite-gauge steel. They still inspect MEP and the other myriad code issues, but if a commercial building falls down they have plenty of targets to point at.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I just got the latest framing plans from the drafter, and I am uploading them here. I think they are pretty self-explanatory, even if you cannot read Japanese.
And now time for another quiz. (maybe I should turn this series of quizzes into a contest with a prize at the end, for the person who answers the most questions).
What is this thing used for?
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Edited 1/1/2009 9:10 am by talkingdog
looks like a small cathead to me, which is the corresponding anchor to a taper tie, a bolt used to keep forms from spreading.
I know it is some kind of anchor (nut) from the threads on the inside, but I cannot guess its exact purpose.
talkingdog,
I don't know what it is but I wish I had had a few when I had to install rod cross ties from plate to plate on a job a while back.
Ron
These things are called "cut screws," possibly due to the fact that they are self-tapping. You can see the taps in one of the photos.OK, I am going to up the ante here. Let's call this Quiz Question #2 out of 5. I am going to send a prize for whoever gets the most answers out of the 5 of some nifty Japanese carpentry handtool that is not available in the US.
"These things are called "cut screws," possibly due to the fact that they are self-tapping."So what do you use them for?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I am going to wait a few more hours and let somebody else try to answer.
These self-tapping nuts are used for fastening down the mudsill. We are using a 4x4 for the mudsill, and the subfloor gets fastened directly to that. So, you want your anchor bolts nice and flush. In the old days they used to go around with a honking big countersink and a big drill and countersink the nuts and washers with a 6 cm hole. That operation alone probably takes three manhours for a job this size.Now, with these self-tapping nuts, they countersink and bolt down in one shot.Since the holes are oversized, before attaching the nuts, I asked them to zap the holes with some expanding anti-bug foam. This should block a potential ant trail into the frame and also prevent internal condensation, which is known to be a problem with anchor bolts.
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Here's one that still has the foam oozing out.
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Edited 1/2/2009 9:15 am by talkingdog
I'm surprised they aren't making you use larger washers. Here we are using 1/4" x 3 x 3 flat steel "bearing plates". No round washers.
I think you will find everything to be of a lower spec than you are used to. Shear wall section, for instance, is only 36 inches wide.To be said in their defense, though, this is what their engineers say is sufficient. And they do test this stuff in the lab by building out complete houses and then shaking them to pieces on giant earthquake machines.
Do they use any prefab, tested wall sections like Simpson Strong Wall?John
>Do they use any prefab, tested wall sections like Simpson Strong Wall?Sorry, I missed this one. There are said to be over 600 proprietary, patented construction "platforms" on the Japanese market. Most of these are franchised, and many of them include proprietary, exclusive technologies like Simpson Strong Wall.However, AFAIK, the only thing that a non-franchisee could access would be the various "moment frames" on the market. These involve massive engineered wood members that are held in place by heavy metal plates and drift pins, etc. Pretty expensive, too.We were thinking about doing this to maximize the lake view on our eastern facing windows, but that idea slipped through the cracks.
Visiting this jobsite makes me so crazy that I have sworn off going out there, except for the weekly with the architects.Today I went out for the first time since they started framing the walls. Something was bugging me that I could not put my finger on, and when I got back home it finally hit me: overdriven nails in shear panels.I first noticed it with the floor, but I dismissed it out of my mind, after all, the floor panels are 1 1/4 inch thick. However, they are doing the same darned thing with the sheathing, setting the nails well below the surface.I will have some words with the architect about this in the morn.
Wish I could embed some video here.Here's a semi-amusing video of the two carpenters trying to seat a header in a pocket using the huge traditional wooden mallet. Dramatic squence of apprentice breaking a 12 foot stud in his crotch by using as lever. Ouch. Soundtrack is very faint, but apprentice gets a lot of abuse from the master during this whole episode (which he pretty much gets all day long every day, AFAICT)http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=S09VkHhd7rI
<Here's a semi-amusing video>
Actually I found that fully amusing.
I always drop headers when the client is videotaping me... It seems like observation affects the experiment, if you know what I mean.
So they racked that wall 1/2" out of plumb in order to close the gap at the header? I guess that's better than having 1" of bearing on the jack.
I would have sent the apprentice for the header stretcher... ;)
k
overdriven nails will often fail inspection in the bay area. how overdriven are they?
On the subject of the overdriven nails. I talked it over with my architect, and he consulted the manufacturer of the panels. In the code certification for the panels it says that up to 2mm of overdrive is allowed. I think this is rather permissive.Anyway, the architects re-inspected and discovered results that confirm my complaint, that indeed some of the nails are overdriven more than 2mm. So they will have to go around and fix this once the scaffolding is up.Since I was the only one who caught this (and I think the architects were not even aware of this issue) my stock has gone up on the jobsite. I am really earning my "customer from hell" reputation.Incidentally, I got tipped off on this issue by an article I read in the JLC archive by Scott McVicker entitled "Practical Engineering: Fixing Shear Wall Nailing Mistakes." Very happy to be a subscriber to their archive.http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/497311ad096da04327170a32100a063a/Product/View/9808prac
Edited 1/18/2009 6:35 am by talkingdog
Some more pictures of the framing, which is now on the second floor.
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First view of the second floor and the main facade of house as you cone down the steps from the station. Remarkably similar to the simulation of this scene I did in Sketchup.
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Truckloads of precut materials show up on the site almost daily.
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Second floor deck is laid. Next they snap lines, then lay the plastic protection. Sure felt good to set foot on the second floor for the first time and get a load of that view, which up to now I have only visualized using the Sketchup walkthru tool.
View ImageNice low angle cut very clean on the CNC machine in the factory
View ImageDouble joists, floor nice and stiff.
View ImageLooking up toward the 7 meter setback and it's clear how the building will make the sidewalk dark during much of the day.
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Journeyman carpenter lays out plates. This fellow always works in bleached all-white attire, with little kung fu slippers. He also tends to move very fast on the site.
View ImageMore framing ####, with low angle fill strip.
View ImageLots of studs in those walls. Actually, this doorway is kinda skimpy compared to some of the others, which have an extra 4x4 thrown in for good measure.
Edited 1/18/2009 8:41 am by talkingdog
Edited 1/18/2009 11:04 am by talkingdog
Wow, that looks like some very clean framing! Tight blocking, tight plate laps, even looks like they put a perfect bevel on the joists that meet at an acute angle. You wouldn't find that on a typical framing job here. Hope you are spending as much time complimenting their work as you are making correction punchlists! =)
They put visqueen (sheet plastic) over the floor sheathing to protect it during construction? You wouldn't see that here, either.
Overdriven nails are pretty common on sheathing - by the time you get the compressor pressure set right for half the nails, it overdrives the other half! They probably just need to lower the air compressor pressure a little, and re-shoot the areas in question. Are they using a nailgun on the rest of the framing also, or are they hand nailing? Just curious, I didn't see any nailguns in the pictures.
I'd love to see more pictures of their tools.
------------------
edited to add: at first, the embedded pics and comments didn't show up. Re-reading your post, I see you refer to CNC cut lumber packages. Is that standard there? So all the lumber comes pre-cut?
"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Edited 1/18/2009 8:50 am by Huck
In the header video above they are using a gun to tack it in placehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S09VkHhd7rI'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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Wait - that video was his jobsite? I thought it was just a funny video he found on internet! No wonder he says going to the jobsite makes him crazy! Of course, stuff like that only happens when the camera is running! =)"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Yeah, that is my jobsite. And I took the video just after the master told me not take any pictures!The reason why they had so much struggle with the thing is that they work to tight tolerances, as you can see from the other photos. I was just looking at that pocket with he header nailed in, and it's perfectly on the money.
The framing looks very copacetic to me. Obviously they have to cut some stuff by hand on site, but most of things like headers and joists are precut in the factory, which is run by Mitsubishi. This contractor was the only bidder on this job that was not paneilized, and from what I gather talking to many contractors, almost everybody is doing panelized now. Site framing is a rarity. Builder's architect says that they get a very good airtightness results from the blower test just due to the precision of framing that results from the precutting. Dunno if that makes sense. What I do know is that going the site built route saved me about $10K over panelized.
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In this photo you can see the tools and supplies neatly arranged. The master is fanatical about keeping an orderly jobsite, and a clean one. Particularly about entering the building with mud on the shoes, which is going to entail a lot of abuse for the perpetrator. The deck is regularly cleaned with a squeegie. I try to praise the Master lavishly to his face, while apologizing for being such a pain in the #### -- then I raise my issues via the back channel. The other thing one does is show up before break time with hot canned coffee.They are using Makita impact drivers and sidewinders, Max compressors, and a Hitachi hand planer. Generally, power tools are going to be either Makita or Hitachi. There are a couple of US-made wall jacks, the kind that use a 2x4. All the hand tools, hammers, saws, squares, etc. are traditional Japanese. They don't use Speed Squares or combo squares, and their hammers are not really up to framing spec, I think.As for that plastic stuff, it's got a sort of texture to it to eliminate slipperiness (which is a good thing, since there is a half inch of ice on the deck in the mornings most days, and it's very tough. Something new, never seen anybody using it before.
Edited 1/18/2009 11:16 am by talkingdog
The master carpenter has told me that he is not very happy with having to build my frog-eye bay windows. Right now the contractor is trying to talk me into accepting an off the shelf product from YKK, but I am not budging from my insistence on nice custom bay windows with Marvin Ultimates.The original idea for these windows came from Alvar Alto's Villa Mairea, which is a very inspiring building that I stumbled onto late in the design process. Here you can see the stunning bay windows in action:http://www.flickr.com/photos/rybczynski/2093494571/in/photostream/I know Aalto is using steel judiciously in this building, but I wonder, do you think these cantilevered bay windows are supported by steel? I think it must be the case.
I can't believe they can work comfortably walking around on that visqueen. Maybe it's different than what we have.Where does the lumber come from? As Huck said a neat job. I'd like to see them try that with the twisted cr*p we get here. Carpentry is so much more fun with material like that. As it once was. I don't even see any wane.John
That's why he wears the kung foo slippers!
I'd still move around like an 80 year old lady, no matter what I wore.
Not only does he move fast in his kung fu shoes, the journeyman also likes to leap across the open stairwell, going around takes too much time.
Not only does he move fast in his kung fu shoes, the journeyman also likes to leap across the open stairwell, going around takes too much time.
That's a funny picture in my mind. Kung-fu-struction!
Just out of curiosity - why don't they like you taking pictures?"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Actually, the shoes are something much better than kung-fu shoes, as they have articulated big toes (like all traditional construction shoes) and some nice sticky rubber tread. The other guys wear NBA style sneakers.I don't think he has a no-pictures policy, probably just a little camera shy. That's why they dropped the header.
I'm sure others have said this already, but that framing is some kind of clean!
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Here we are using 1/4" x 3 x 3 flat steel "bearing plates". No round washers.
Did that, and they wrote a correction notice because I didn't put round washers on top of the square washers!View Image"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
so did i win that one, i called it as a type of cathead and an anchor of some type? i admit i missed the self counterboring.
OK, I'll give it to you.
thanks, thats one and i am counting!
"I have seen R-values listed for EPS type IX as high as 4.1/inch, though. I thought it was around 3.4."
A local foam manufacturer, Cellofoam, lists their EPS R values at between 3.85-4.76 per inch of thickness.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Is there any reason why I should not post PDFs or images of the various plans for this house? Would anyone like to see plans?
I agree with you, 100%, like I said before, Japanese carpenters are great with wood, joinery, etc. but they do not study other things, nor are there many publications, etc. to help educate carpenters more. To further the problem, a lot of the manufactured products here and their installation directions are incorrect. There are holes everywhere in the system...
I'm working through Oshogatsu. Have a framing inspection on a house right after the break, so I want to get my board backing, etc. in so I can start on the drywall right after the inspection. I hope you're carpenters get it sheathed and done before the break.
I shouldn't give you advice, but you may want to pick your battles. I've advised lots of foreigner friends in Kyushu while they were having homes built, and most of them were going nuts through the process. If the carpenters do unnecessary things, let some of them slip. If they make small mistakes, and they aren't vital, let some slip. Also, go after the gemba supervisor, and try and let the carpenters plow through things without too much interruption.
Anyway, hope it goes well.
s
Finally we are done with the preliminaries, and the carpenters show up on the site. Actually, the crew is composed of one master carpenter, who has 45 years experience in Kyoto and who the builder describes as their "ace", and one apprentice with two years experience, who they say is shaping up just fine.
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The architect, master carpenter, and apprentice discussing the framing of the "joistless" first floor (which is basically an fusion of 4x4 mudsill and joists with 1-1/4" ply).
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Master carpenter's framing plan. Hard to see from this photo, but it's meticulously annotated and color coded. I am very pleased they have given me their best carpenter for this project, and the fact that he manages to keep his white tennis shoes perfectly clean on this muddy jobsite is a sort of indicator, I think.
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Here's a closeup of the vaunted yellow cedar mudsill that we ended up electing to go with. The site has a very pungent smell of yellow cedar, in fact the entire surrounding area does.
Now, I am trying to build a frugal house here, but I have promised not to scrimp on the basics, so that is why we went with this expensive mudsill. Under the original plan, we were going to be using hemlock ACQ-D stock. However, it turned out to be impossible to use stainless steel nails on the ACQ-D, as per my requirements, due to the specifications required by the construction loan financing (Japanese govt loan), by the insuror, etc. They absolutely require the use of the standard spec color-coded nails for nailing down the subfloor, and these do not come in either stainless or hot-dipped galvanized.
As a result, I had to go with the yellow cedar. This is something you rarely see, only on very high end houses, and the upcharge was terrific. Now I won't be able to afford that big flat screen TV at the end of the job!
So, if I am using yellow cedar, why did they also have to spray it? Well, that is another requirement of the insurer. No spray, no 10-year bug insurance. So another upcharge.
Also, in the above pictures you can see Dow blueboard being applied to the stemwall. Actually, this turned out to be a mistake, by the supplier they said. Original spec was for borate treated polyiso. Furthermore, the bluboard was merely being tacked on with concrete nails, and the carpenter expressed surprise at my explanation of the fact that foam insulation, to be effective must be sealed in airtight.
This is a common misunderstanding by carpenters in Japan (who normally install insulation, too, instead of a subcontractor). So the blueboard has to be ripped out and redone by the apprentice.
I am really glad that I have my own architect supervising, because I expect that they would get away with bullying me over matters like this. The usual lines I have heard thus far are "Everybody does it this way," and "We always do it this way." This excuse is supposed to overcome all reason.
Anyway, my architect buys into my building science religion and manages to cut through their bluster and get the results from them that I require, and he does this by saying, "Can you please inquire about this again and verify that this is the only way to do it -- I'm sure there must be another way."
Edited 12/25/2008 5:02 am by talkingdog
"Can you please inquire about this again and verify that this is the only way to do it -- I'm sure there must be another way."
I like that approach."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Actually, it was said more politely than that, but these things get lost in translation.
Is this the final grade?
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Or will the dirt be brought up higher? Interesting that they borate treat the lumber and insulation, but don't have a barrier between the foundation and mudsill. jt8
A year from now you may wish you had started today. -- Karen Lamb
On the final grade and bug treatment. I think it's going to be raised a few inches at most.We are doing some new things on this house, so their process has been messed up a little. For instance, the mudsill is supposed to rest on a 10 inch wide strip of "termite barrier sill sealer", which will wrap around the mudsill on the outside, and extend to the insulation on the inside. (pictures to follow) This material is bug treated, and also has a pencil-friendly surface, so you are supposed to lay it down on the stemwall first, snap your lines on it, then install the mudsill. In this case the poor carpenter did his lines on the concrete, then the sealer arrived, and he had to lay it down and transfer the lines on top of it. Another screwup by the guys in the builder's office.There will also be a metallic termite shield screen thing installed at the very bottom row of the siding.
I have that same ink line in my pouch. It's 12 years old.
Excellent!
This brings back so many memories. Now I'll have to dig out my pics.
Do you mind if I show some?
Sounds like you have done a stint in Japan. Go ahead and tell all.
I'm not sure if this is going to work, but I'll start with some lite stuff.
Those are mighty funny balloons they are tossing at the ball game, I don't think that is there only purpose.Wallyo
might explain the population explosion.
I'd get them to cut the plastic floor covering off as soon as they get the roof sheathed. We used to use it down here in Kyushu, but they got rid of it because of major mold issues.
Rain inevitably gets under the plastic and the moisture stays there, especially in the summer, but also in the winter. Mold develops rather quickly.
As for the sheathing nails being over driven, its been mentioned by one of the Japanese architects who designs the homes I build down here. The company building the panels was at fault, the architect made them nail it over again.
SS
where are the storage areas for the grill, hot tub, riding mower, pool table, 4th car. travel trailer, ski boat, jon boat, and other essentials??
That's a funny comment, about the storage. Like life on Mars.Reminds me that today I made a little visit to my local traditional lumber dealer to get a price on some posts. We're using a row of 4x4 columns as railings for the staircase, and now I want to change them to three inch redwood columns. So here are some pictures of this very old school lumber merchant and his wares (the connection to storage is that I noticed today he had a whole bunch of very expensive redwood posts all wrapped up in plastic in a corner -- already paid for, and the customer may leave them there in storage in his warehouse for years.
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Here's a whole stock of the poles that he showed me first, and which I refused because it was not quite right. He always tries to sell me something that is not quite right, for a "special price" and I have been burned too many times on this stuff.
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He's got all sorts of stuff buried in the back, no point in asking him for it, you have to walk the floor and see what's there. This piece I picked out and it's just perfect for my needs. Kinda low grade, a few knots and the price is right, about $20 apiece.
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Here's a shot of him pointing out his crown jewels, his best stuff. The three inch thick slab is something new to the inventory, chestnut, about three feet wide and twelve feet long. Price is $2500.
Below the chestnut there are a few slabs of black wood, and those are priced at $4500 a piece. He sells about one piece a year, and I have been watching this stack slowly shrink over the past 20 years.
Edited 1/20/2009 7:48 pm by talkingdog
I'm guessing you must have been helping rebuild in the Kobe area sometime after the quake in '95. We just had another anniversary of the quake. It's mostly all rebuilt by now.Great shot of the bridge under construction. Folks, that bridge is so big that the Golden Gate will fit entirely between the towers, which are over 100 stories tall. They recently lowered the toll so that it's now only something like 50 bucks to cross.
Yes 1996-97. Much fun.
Worked all over between Nagano and Akashi.
Mostly in Kobe and Osaka.
Things I remember.-- 305 610 1220 2440 mm
Measuring from center of wall.
all the straps and anchors.
I think we framed over 20 in the year I was there.
Japanese style framing.
Nagano, one year before olympics.
Post .181 picture 023 ... looks like almost-doubled floor joists, but every other one is not flush with the rest. Why?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Those are ceiling joist. Hung between the floor joist.
Sometimes we didn't get a satisfactory explanation.
Something about a large piano, I think.
Edited 1/21/2009 9:09 am by 1muff2muff
Those are for soundproofing. They isolate the ceiling from the floor above somewhat.
That would make sense, if they were not flush with the floor joist.
I asked this question while framing, and was told to just do what the architect has drawn.
Then I went for a really great curry dish just around the corner.
A guy from New Dheli had just opened a curry shop in a little mall, about 500' from the house.
My helper, from Manchester England, said it was probably the best he,d ever eaten.
Edited 1/22/2009 11:10 pm by 1muff2muff
Well, my builder routinely puts in a set of 2x6s in the ceiling of the first floor, for soundproofing. Researching soundproofing I found out that this is about the best way to do it. I think they got this detail from Mitsui Home.I can get some very good Indian curry around here, too. Also, I know a place in Tokyo that has a knockout Sri Lanka curry.
Woohoo!
Building was topped off today. With the final roof parapet trim, it will come to 9910 mm in height (90 mm short of the 10000 mm height limit). Penthouse will get three flat mounted skylights, 2' x 4'.
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First view of the house as you come down the hill.
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I spent a little time sitting in the doorway of the penthouse, basking in the warm noontime sun. Great feeling.
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Dramatic views from the roof deck, and I am glad now that I went through the design struggle to get a flat roof.
Edited 1/23/2009 9:23 am by talkingdog
Looks like you're ready to go a little higher with the ashiba.
Can you tell me about this ritual at the end of framing a project?
I can't tell you about that ritual in the photo, partly because
I can't see it very well. Traditionally there was a topping-off ceremony that involved these
kind of Shinto ceremonies, etc. Plus a sit down dinner for the
construction crew with plenty of sake and beer. These days a lot of owners decide to forego these ceremonies, and
after inquiring and finding that the constructors consider them a
bothersome obligation, we decided to not do it. Cost a lot of money,
too.
Roll roofing has been laid, so now the building can start to dry
out. We got an awful lot of rain and snow. Being a shop guy myself,
I have never experienced working outdoors through the winter, thank
heaven. Must be tough. Carpenter has all his fingers taped due to
some sort of blisters from the cold.I am getting some pushback on my prescribed window flashing routine.
Tomorrow I am going to lay down the law, "It's my way or the highway."
I don't usually take that attitude about anything, but with respect
to flashing, dagnabbit, that's how it's going to be. I've got a doozy of a quiz question coming up for you all, as soon as
I get a chance to catch my breath.
Yesterday I continued my doormaking effort out in the workshop. I have
finally got my process perfected to the point that I can easily create
glued up stave cores that are perfectly straight and flat. To do this I had to create a good straight gluing surface, 2400 mm long, and to do this I used a couple of metal studs and put them together into a box beam using pieces of MDF screwed to the sides. Actually these are not like American metal studs, because they are rectangular in section, and slightly heavier.Then I lay up the material using glue and a ton of clamps. I am using
the kiln dried 35mm x 35mm old growth stock that I get at the home
center, and these glue up and plane down into a 33 mm x 100 mm stave
core for a door stile. This is a very hefty member and will get 4mm
MDF skins laminated to both sides. Finally it will get an edgeband
made out of hardwood. This is a rather laborious process, but I rather
like the idea of taking cheap materials and putting them together to
make something expensive. I am enjoying the new Delta 13" planer in the process.Next I have to figure out the hardware situation. I am planning to
hang as many of the doors as possible using outset pocket door
hardware, and I am now trying to figure out which brand. American
carpenters seem to recommend Johnson, but I have heard that Hafele is
the way to go. Boyoboy is Hafele ever expensive, at over $500 per
door.After I finished in the workshop I went out into the grove out back
and cut a bunch of bamboo for use in the interior, probably 100
pieces, four to six meters long. Each one of these is going to get
split down the middle and put somewhere to dry out a bit. Then I am
going to nail it directly up to the drywall to crate a drop ceiling.
I may also use it as paneling or wainscot in some places. That is, if
the stuff dries out okay and doesn't split and twist too much. I've
been told this particular patch is not such great quality, so we shall
have to see.
talkingdog
In another discussion of sliding door hardware, I recommended Crowder tracks as the best I know of for the best price.
I don't know if they are available in Japan, but if they are, they would be a better price than American or German because of the present exchange rates.
I have seen 25 year old installations of Crowder hardware which work like new.
http://www.kncrowder.com/
Ron
Ron, thanks for that Crowder recommendation. I had never heard of them. What is the price for a typical single pocket door setup?
talkingdog,
In Canada, about $140 for a door up to about 100 pounds. Functions the same as American made kits at twice the price.
Ron
That sounds great, Ron.Can one order these things direct from that homepage, and ship
to a US address?
Edited 2/5/2009 9:38 am by talkingdog
Here is a little photo of my bamboo cutting efforts on Saturday. I harvested about 100 trees in about three hours. Sure felt productive.
It's getting pretty late to be cutting, but it's still cold enough to get some more. This batch is pretty poor quality, so I don't know how much of it I am going to be able to use. The plan is to use it for interior finishes in some places, maybe on the ceiling.
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Edited 2/5/2009 9:42 am by talkingdog
What does the cold weather have to do with cutting bamboo?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Bamboo should be cut during November and December. If you cut it after the sap rises, so to speak, you ruin it. This is what our gardener told me.I guess you probably know that bamboo rises out of the ground in the spring, and once it gets going, it extends at a rate of about a yard a day, reaching its full girth and height in less than a month.It is very tempting to cut the stuff at that stage, because it is so green and beautiful looking, but if you do it turns into mush as it dries. I think you have to wait for the first winter to cut it, and then it will be strong and last virtually forever.
Edited 2/5/2009 10:54 pm by talkingdog
Some more pictures of what was done this week. They got the Tyvek on, and the roll roofing, and then started installing the polyiso and window flashing.
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Me up on the roof with penthouse in background
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Parapet flashing poking up from under housewrap. This preformed flashing corner is taped in with butyl tape
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My new golf driving range -- we are only 176 yards from the lake, so I should be able to do that with just irons, right?
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Nice shot of polyiso creeping up over the Tyvek
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Balcony area with fiberglass waterproofing installed.
Edited 2/7/2009 9:52 am by talkingdog
that balcony area photo looks soooo clean. Did I miss that? Could you elaborate on the fiberglass waterproofing - I haven't seen that before. Also, I really like the drain detail. Seems they never get it right here, the hole is always an inch higher than the roof!View Image "...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
There are three areas of waterproofed balcony. Originally, I wanted to do the main roof section with waterproofing, but Breaktimers talked me out of it.The waterproofed sections are built up on top of the roof decking with furring strips and then they get a half inch of cement panel underlayment for fireproofing. Then the guy lays down sheets of glass in polyester resin on one day, paints the next. I love the fact that they run the fiberglass up over the parapet walls in some cases, so there really is not going to be water getting in.They drill out the drain with a hole saw and then put in an overflow right above. This is all very standard work, costs about $8 s.f. A higher grade of work would be a membrne like Sarnafil, which is what I originally wanted, but couldn't find anybody to do.
Edited 2/7/2009 6:53 pm by talkingdog
Here is another shot of the waterproofing, with the overlap. This affair gets a piece of 12 inch aluminum coping, and we decided to build the handrails into the decking structure, which is built up on top of the waterproofed section and ends up flush with the coping. Many times, the handrail will be integrated into the coping and sealed with a caulk joint, but I don't like that idea much.
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Edited 2/7/2009 7:00 pm by talkingdog
Sorry if I have too many questions - I'm trying to visualize the process. Is there a website you could link me to? This is fiberglass (woven or loose fiber?) sheets embedded in resin, then painted. Over sheets of cement board, over sleepers ("furring")? Why the furring? What is the white stuff in the photo below? And what is "novopan" on the walls?
And by "waterproof", you mean decking surface you could walk on, vs. just a standard hot-mop composition roll-roof? So some portions of the roof are not suitable as a deck, and some are?
View ImageView Image "...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
The stuff in the photo is the cement board underlayment. Actually, it may be a calcimine formula, not sure. It's whiter than cement and seems to be somewhat friable. They also use a similar stuff in the eaves, for fireproofing. Here is a closeup of the stuff, and you can see where it has fractured like sheetrock under the impact of a nail too close to the edge.http://www.flickr.com/photos/talkingdog/3254579471/sizes/l/in/set-72157609659240646/Anyway, this stuff gets furred out (or rather would that be laid on sleepers) to give it the proper drainage pitch, since the plywood deck under that is perfectly flat. Then the glass gets done. I think this is universally the way they do it here for small outside areas like balconies and decks. This fiberglass is only so thick and tough, so you don't really want to give it a lot of traffic unprotected. People usually put pavers directly on it, or else wooden decking, which is what I will be doing. I may do a section of lightweight green roof.I wanted to do the whole roof that way, but most builders have a limit to the size of unbroken area they will do with fiberglass. That is, the bigger the area, the greater is the chance that movement due to such things as earthquakes and winds will cause the seams of the glass to open up. Sarnafil is apparently better on this issue.The Novopan you see is the 9 mm recycled particleboard sheathing used throughout the house. The builders like it very much because it is easier to use than CDX or OSB, and the engineering allowable is greater. It seems to be entirely unaffected by rain. They say the customers all like it because it gives them green cred. Hold up a piece and you can actually see little bits of all sorts of stuff that have been chopped up fine and recycled.I was skeptical at first, so before agreeing to use it in my spec I took some samples home and did the one-hour boil test. No effect. Then I used them as coasters for my drinks and again, other than some watermarks, no effect. I wonder how many LEED points this stuff would get me.The four star mark you see on the Novopan is the latest trade barrier erected to keep value-added US building products out. Composite buildings used inside the building envelope must have this four star mark, which indicates compliance with formaldehyde and VOC regs.This also goes for cabinetry, doors, wallpaper, adhesives, FG insulation and flooring, and it costs a manufacturer about $5000 per year per product to maintain this rating, and very few firms have the stomach for that.This created quite a headache for me in the planning process, because I wanted to import US finish materials. But as for doors, I could only find Simpson and Masonite as having approval. Kitchen cabinets, only Dewils. Flooring I could find none. Same goes with joint compound and various adhesives. I could not even legally use Titebond glue.On the kitchenI managed to get around it by going the IKEA route, since IKEA has stores here and code approval, of course. And anyway their stuff vastly exceeds the Japanese standards. I'll buy the IKEA kitchen in the US, where it will cost me half the price (or maybe less with the current exchange rate).As for the flooring, I want to use Kahrs Linnea one-strip, which I think is about the best cheap engineered wood floor out there. Kahrs unfortunately does not have the four star mark, so that will require some fancy footwork.
Another thing about the Japanese way of building. Pencil tick marks everywhere.If you look at the closeup photo above, you will see pencil marks showing where to put the nails. This is not the way I was taught to build. That sort of thing I was taught to just eyeball. But you will see the Japanese religiously putting in pencil tick marks to make things line up neatly.For instance, yesterday I was watching the carpenter attaching side flashing on the window openings. He would stop and measure, top, middle and bottom, carefully making tick marks. Then the tape gets cut precisely and squarely on a workbench with predetermined lengths marked on it. The result is very neat and precise work.This is also conspicuous in the case of sheetrock. They actually draw pencil lines where the stud goes, and some carpenters will even pre-draw the spacing of the screws. Every cut is done on a bench with a T-square. You don't just lean a board up against the wall and cut off four inches semi-freehand with your knife and the end of your tape. Heavens no!Drawing nail lines is something I had seen cabinetmakers in the US do, when putting on a backing board, but sheetrock? I think you would get laughed off the jobsite or fired if you did that in the US.To digress, a similar anal retentiveness goes with painting. Everything but everything gets masked in before painting. Now, when I was learning to paint, my boss always said "Just eyeball it, a good painter doesn't need no tape."
Edited 2/7/2009 10:15 pm by talkingdog
Looks like your house is progressing pretty well. I hope things are less stressful these days. Looking at the pics, the tradesmen seem to be doing pretty clean work. Down here in Oita its hard to find guys that put that much effort into things anymore...
I enjoyed your bit about the pencil marks. When I first came from Canada I worked for an Alaskan carpenter here in Oita who swore by the thick carpenters pencils. Then, when I trained under a Japanese carpenter, he swore by the thin pencils and made me use them, he even told me how to sharpen them properly! Now, I never use the large pencils and buy expensive smaller ones because the lead is harder, lasts longer, etc. I think the way carpenters measure and mark here is super-precise.
You must use a Japanese framing square too right? Have you got one of the 2x4 types? They are really handy when doing work in 2x4 structures. Its 19mm wide one each side (3/4"), so framers use it to mark the center and both sides, with 3 swipes of the pencil. Also, 2x dimensions are all on the back side for quick reference and marking....
SS
Now that we have got the interim inspection over, and the carpenters are pretty much done, I am indeed feeling less stress. I've pretty much had my own way on all my demands and special requests, and have not been nailed too badly on the upcharges.Tomorrow we are going to do the lighting walkthru with electrician. I had Panasonic take our plan and engineer it to their specs and fixtures. Wow, are those fixtures ever expensive. I may use some of them, but I think I am going to do most of the fixtures on the cheap from Net shops.As for framing squares, well I am not a framer, so I don't have their framing square, but let me tell ya I recently found a little clear plastic angle square device at the home center that I am in love with. It's perfectly calibrated for working with 2x4 stock, with little holes and notches for drawing centered lines, etc.
Yeah, I can't believe some of the prices of lighting fixtures, etc. Plumbing parts like sinks, etc. are really bad too. Most of my customers now are getting US sinks, but are paying through the nose for them. Kohler will sell/ship directly from the US too. Last week the interior designer here bought a bunch of light switches from an import company. They were the American-style ones, and are apparently pretty popular here right now, they were dirt cheap.
As for the framing square, I still highly recommend it, its not just for framing. I frame, hang drywall, trim the house, plus make cabinets, furniture, custom stairkits, and I use that framing square all day long, everyday......
The carpenters who framed your house are doing the interior too, right?
SS
I find it incredible that the $1000 plus toilet is pretty much the status quo, and people have no problem paying considerably more than that.Jetted bathtubs are another one. Anything with jets is going to cost you 4x what you'd pay in the real world. Even Toto. Their domestic jetted baths are at least 4X the price of their US-made ones.And then we come to one of my pet peeves, the $500 plated plastic faucets and taps. You have to search very, very hard to find anything made out of sold brass. Salespersons look at you like you came from Mars for asking for solid metal.I'll have to look into that framing square. I think my carpenters are zairai guys at heart, and it seems their tools are all zairai based. As for the interior, my carpenters are going to rock the place and bolt on the open stair stringers and they are done. I'll do the floor, kitchen + bath, interior doors, etc. They are pretty miffed that I've taken this work away from them.
Yeah, I kind of figured your carpenters were "zairai" guys after watching your videos. I respect really good zairai carpenters, of course, but most of the really good zairai carpenters don't switch over.
2x4 American style carpenters here are a different breed. The guy who taught me was one of the best in Kyushu, he still is pretty famous today. He could go and frame/finish anywhere in the world and make a great living.
It really is hard to find brass around here. I replaced a few faucets in Fukuoka before Christmas during a renovation I was doing there, the customer wanted the brass ones removed because they weren't shiny anymore. I took them home and had them looking new in a few hours. I brought some Brasso polish back with me a few years ago and put it to good use. Nobody wants to put any TLC into their house, they want totally maintenance-free products...
The company I do subcontracting for is really unique though. Right now we are using ASHIBA ITA (scaffolding planks) for the interior window sills... we get pretty old looking ones, cut them to fit, then wax them with walnut colored wax. A few coats of that and they look really sharp. Customers pay through the nose for them these days. Its getting harder to find the planks as they are being bought up for furniture, etc....
SS
One of the problems I am currently having is with the limitations of these repurposed zairai (traditional) carpenters. Their brief is to do the framing and sheetrocking only. Meanwhile I am making doors, doing baseboards, all the finish carpentry. Unfortunately, because of the fussy modern details, the baseboards and door casings are separated from the sheetrock by a little reveal made of plastic bead, I think it's an "L" bead or something. So the doors and baseboards have to go on before the rock. Since they refuse to work with me on the jobsite, they have to leave until I get the finish work done.I asked the lead carpenter why not just install my jambs for me, I'd be happy to pay them to do a nice job of it. Lots of hemming and hawing and later it comes out they don't really know how, the only doors they ever install are prehung units. That pretty sums it up, they are framers but don't know how to do finish carpentry as we conceive of it. Carpenters that are gradually being deskilled into mere "installers."
Edited 2/10/2009 6:34 am by talkingdog
Hmm.... it really does sound like a zairai company, with zairai carpenters... You hit the nail on the head with your last statement though....carpenters these days have been ruined by the big housing companies, and product manufacturers in turn. They are installers, its basically like putting together IKEA furniture or something. Its ruined the housing industry here. Luckily, I don't associate with those guys, or those companies. I am lucky to be associated with a company that still uses a lot of wood products, and does things both the North American way and the Japanese way.
For trim, door jambs, etc. I'm using imported SAUDER products from Rikkyo International in Kyoto, plus FIRST TRADING in Osaka. The only prefab wood product I've used at my jobsite was a stair kit from Wood One. I used them once, now I mill all the treads, ballusers, etc. myself out of hemlock or oak, there's such a difference and the customers all love getting something original. Of course, the problem after that is training the painters to finish the stairs properly, which is a whole other problem in itself....! I've stained and varathaned 2 stair kits this year, because the painter really messed up a previous project of mine.
How many Tsubo is your house?
Well, this builder has always been a 2x4 builder. They started out as a sub for Mitsui, and most of their guys are straight 2x4 guys who came up from Kyushu. The house they build is a straight Mitsui spec. You end up with a Mitsui house for a 25% discount.However, their best framing sub is this guy I have here, and he grew up inside the proud Kyoto carpenter's guild. Must have been hard for him to switch over to 2x4 at age 50+, which is apparently what he did.Now, from my conversations with this carpenter, despite the fact that he can do the old-fashioned stuff with hand tools, he has gone hook, line and sinker for high speed production techniques and installing all this factory produced stuff. He thinks that a system kitchen and unit bath are superior to custom.My counterargument is that all this factory production just steals food from his mouth, and more of it each day. Pretty soon he won't even be able to stick build on site anymore, they will have found a way to mandate panel building, then modular, etc. This all takes the value-added work away from the local craftsman and gives it to the highly capitalized enterprise far away. Did you know that 90% of the wooden windows and flooring sold under Japanese brands is now Phillipine or Chinese made? WoodOne, feh.Pretty soon you are just a screwdriver monkey.Now, as for architectural woodworking and finishes, well, I used to do a lot of work on Park Avenue in Manhattan, so I know what this stuff is supposed to look like. Japanese carpenters have absolutely no conception of how to install and finish a staingrade staircase, for instance. Don't know and apparently don't care. My carpenter is openly contemptuous of our paint finishes and varnishes. If it doesn't come factory prefinished, he doesn't want to know about it.The house is 68 tsubos (2300 s.f.) with about 500 s.f. of decks and terraces. This is huge by Japanese standards (and maybe by the standard of what they are currently building in California, heh) but that is the deal I made with my wife -- if we were to stay in Japan then I get a house with some goshdarned elbow room. Turnkey budget for this house with everything except central air works out to 540,000 per tsubo ($160 s.f.). I'd have paid 800,000 per tsubo or more to get this house from Mitsui.
what brand HVAC units do they use? package with ducts? Mini splits?
Around here they usually put in mini-splits. Very few houses have central air, or even ducted ventilation. I loathe mini splits.Those that have central air often have some sort of high velocity.I'm putting in Unico, partly because it's supposed to be an easy DIY and partly because the blower has a low power mode that allows you to use the system for ventilation only.Edited 2/11/2009 9:44 pm by talkingdog
Edited 2/11/2009 9:44 pm by talkingdog
Window glass has been installed and now the electrical work is starting. Actually, the imported windows have not arrive yet, so there are still about a dozen windows that need to be installed, in addition to skylights.
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Here is a shot of the big outset pocket sliding window from YKK. The floor inside will be raised up, and we will be able to walk out through that open window onto a stoop, then step down to a deck 18 inches below, which will be built up to the top of the gray waterproofed area.
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Here is a nice shot of the flashed window. Note how the tape has been perfectly cut at a 90 degree angle and very precisely positioned with a tape measure. That's what I call anal retentive!
Edited 2/17/2009 9:47 am by talkingdog
Mr Dog,
Just wanted you to know that I really have enjoyed your photos and your comments.. Great Thread!
Keep on posting those photos.
Stay tuned for the book!
Stay tuned for the book!
http://www.blurb.com/"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Yup, that's how I plan to do it, although I want to use Amazon
to distribute it.
You legal types think of everything!
How about these:
Made in Japan: The Story of the Talkingdog House
The Lake House, Japan: Cheap Loans, High Prices, and Kung-Fu Framing
The Framer Wore Slippers: Building My Lakeside Home in Japan
"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
As for the book concept, I don't particularly want to write another housebuilding memoir. I'd like to do something with a business angle, like the Owner-builder Book. That guy turned his house project into a good sized side business.A couple of years back some HO in Japan wrote a book on how he built a custom house for less than $100K and it then became an Amazon Japan bestseller. In fact I bet it is still selling well.
On to the lighting plan. The electrician has already started and I changed my AIM status message to "Running with scissors, hair on fire" because that describes the mood as I deal with this stuff. [for the impatient, page down to bottom]If anyone would like to see this lighting plan, it's up on Flickr here:http://www.flickr.com/photos/talkingdog/sets/72157614037787252/
Panasonic did the plan, and the list price was 2 million yen. My New York architect sort of sniffed at it and said it seemed "low budget". Well, duh, this house is all low budget. Anyway, I find that I can get almost all of the Panasonic stuff online at around a 60% discount off list, which would not be too terrible.Really rolling up my sleeves and drilling down into the plan in detail with a since of urgency (since electrician has already installed boxes and has drilled for wires) I find it lacking in some ways. I really wish there were some indication of a fine-grained analysis of candlepower requirements by the designer. Instead it looks like they have just dragged and dropped products onto the CAD layoug according to category without really crunching the numbers or simulating the effects. I have no idea of the beam spread of the recessed fixtures, for instance, and how much candlepower is reaching the work surface.For instance, on the second floor, they use a standard 60W mini krypton downlight both for the 11 foot ceiling in the living room and for the 9 foot ceiling in the corridor, despite the difference in height and functional requirements.Secondly, and more importantly, they fail to deal with the fact that the ceiling joist bays will be insulated, and that there for an IC type (insulated, called "SB" in Japanese) fixture is required. Moreover, since this is a high performance house, all my fixtures and boxes have to be airtight ("koukimitsu" in Japanese -- and this is another long story). They failed to even inquire as to whether I had these requirements during the initial interview, and this leads me to judge their whole design process to be lackadaisical.Not only do I need IC airtight fixtures, they also need to be low-profile, since it turns out that the somebody screwed up and the foam got installed on the inside of the ceiling joists instead of over the roof deck as designed. The original 9 1/2" joist bay is now only 7 1/2". On top of this, although I find the light from the mini-krypton bulbs to be pleasant I am insisting on the higher-quality light produced by halogens.Only problem is, for some reason I cannot figure out, Panasonic and the other Japanese makers tend to put mini-kryptons in almost all of their incandescent fixtures. The only halogen fixtures I could find for down lights use the low-wattage "halopin" type bulbs. In other words, you can't get high power MR16 halogen downlights in Japan by the normal channel, and certainly not the airtight IC type.Furthermore, searching abroad, I have to look for "remodel" type fixtures, not "new construction," since the Japanese do not frame-in their fixtures the way they do elsewhere. Instead, the electrician comes around after the rock is up and cuts the fixture holes with a template. Searching under "remodel airtight IC MR 16 halogen fixture" (low voltage) I found nothing. Plenty of fixtures for new construction, but not for remodel.Well, to make a very, very long story short, I discovered that there is a new class of halogen "energy saver" bulbs on the market. Phillips makes one, which is sold at Home Depot as "Halogena" and Mitsubishi makes a similar one for the market here. These have an E26 (standard lightbulb) base with an IRC Halopin bulb mounted inside. I have found the right housing, Nora Lighting Shallow airtight IC remodel housing. I believe that by going this route I will get the most flexibility -- can use halogen bulbs, or regular incandescent, or even high power LEDs. Yeehaw.Now, onto the subject of track lighting...
Edited 2/18/2009 9:51 pm by talkingdog
Work got stalled out the past week in bickering between me and
the builder. Essentially, I insist, and the contract stipulates,
that change orders must be approved before work involving changes proceeds.They pay lip service to this, but while I am waiting for the change
estimate to come by fax, meanwhile they send somebody out to the
site to start working. Later, after a month of grumbling about
this, I finally get the change order for work already done at a
price I can no longer negotiate.This infuriates me. And this week I went out there and pulled the electrician off the job until I get a final price on the changes.
They told me he wouldn't start, but there he was. Am I being unreasonable?
Actually, its a protection for both sides. What if you just flat out refuse to pay - and they have no signed agreement?
I have proceeded on a verbal OK of my price, and even gotten into trouble that way. Homeowner's memory fades after work is accomplished.
Unless you have a t&m clause for extras in the contract, i.e. all extras billed at $x/hr.
Personally I don't like bidding for extras, 'tho, unless I get an itemized list of all extras, and can bid the list. Otherwise, I don't like bidding frequent extras on a job one at a time - it slows things down, and it can be difficult to incorporate a margin for unknowns that arise - and then you have to try to get an extra on top of the extra, and it becomes a headache or a money loser. Of course, I'm more remodel than new construction, so any extras are likely more straightforward in your case. I'm just speaking in generalities."...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Well, I already did flat out refuse to pay the $2000 for Tyvek.I specifically asked for another, cheaper product that was included in the siding guy's estimate, but instead they told the carpenter to go ahead and install Tyvek. I have no particular faith in Tyvek.If this comes up again, out of the goodness of my heart I am going to offer to pay the price difference between the Tyvek and the cheap stuff.We went around and around over the contract and spec for over five months to make this change order thing very clear, and here they
just turn around and ignore the agreement.This behavior is making me very disinclined to order any more extras from them, which is where they are anticipating making their money, and instead to cut out every bit of gravy that remains in the contract.
I should also say that I am hiding behind my architect through all this. He thinks their sloppiness in handling the paperwork is irregular and sort of anachronistic, not in keeping with the
up-to-date image they are trying to project.
I'm not sure if this is relevant or not - but any money I make is always on the initial bid. Extras always cost me in some way - lost time, broken flow, unforeseen expenses resulting from the extras - even 'tho the h.o. usually thinks I'm making a killing on them.
The high cost of extras just offsets some of my loss, but doesn't eliminate it. It almost becomes a mental block. I bid the job because I want it. I have a hard time bidding extras, because I don't want them. But I do it for the h.o., because they want it, and then I know ahead of time I'll be accused of gouging. So for me, extras are a difficult obstacle.
Like I say, I don't know if my experience has any relevance to your situation."...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
These guys were the low bidders on the job, and there was a $100K difference from the top guys. If I had used a major, brand name
contractor that difference would have been more like $150 or $200K.
I went with them because they seemed capable of doing the job and because my architect said their work seemed good.Anyway, I think what happened is that they underbid the job, bidding it according to their usual formula, and did not account for all the loss due to all the peculiar and unfamiliar requirements of this very custom job. They have been behind the curve the whole time on ordering the right stuff and installing it right.So, I am expecting them to overcompensate by overcharging me on extras. I don't want to try to be too tough with them, because this is the stage of the job where things can get real ugly. I've been there before myself, when I was contracting. The worst case is where the client is a lawyer (or plays one on the Internet, like me!).Anyway, they have a whole office full of people, so I figure they can at least do the paperwork properly for me, as agreed. Timely and proper paperwork would do the trick.To get back to the point of this whole thread, the Japanese way of doing things, this seems to me to be typical behavior. That is, agree to do something that you have no intention of doing, to say yes, yes, yes, and then slacking off in the expectation that the opposite party will look the other way.Best example of this is on the roads. The actual road speed is always at least 20 km over the posted limit. Highways are posted at 80, but everybody knows that all of the camera speed traps are set for 118, so they drive accordingly, even the cops. If they strictly enforced just the speeding and parking laws, half the population would be in traffic prison by now!
Interesting perspective. So this is not a small one-truck contractor, its a bigger business. It sounds like you have summed up the situation pretty accurately. Is there one guy who is project manager on this? Seems like he's the guy you need to have a heart-to-heart talk with. Tell him your expectations at this point, your concerns, and find out what his are. Let him know you are willing to work with him, but he has to follow-through on everything he agrees to, if he expects you to do the same. I think every job of this size needs a mid-job pow-wow (or several), to deal with issues that are on their way to becoming problems. Wish you the best, its coming along beautifully!
edited to add: it seems that if you're paying the architect to oversee the job, maybe he's dropped the ball. Shouldn't he be on top of the changes to his plan? Also was wondering, do you speak fluent Japanese, or does everyone there speak fluent English? I'm wondering if language could be a factor.
BTW - as a general contractor, I run into this all the time. Sub's who underbid, then their attitude starts to go sour in mid job. I try to factor some extra wiggle room into my bid price, to compensate for the sub's lack of foresight. Then I'll buy some materials for them, or jump in and help them out with any grunt or go-fer work (or send one of my guys - back when I had a crew). Keeping morale up on the jobsite is a pretty critical task.
The paperwork is a biggie too. You're definitely right there.
And Wow, I had to go back and look at this statement again. These guys were the low bidders on the job, and there was a $100K difference from the top guys. If I had used a major, brand name contractor that difference would have been more like $150 or $200K. I can't imagine how that could even be possible. If I was low by that much, It'd probably be my last job as a contractor!
"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Edited 2/22/2009 10:06 pm by Huck
And Wow, I had to go back and look at this statement again. These guys were the low bidders on the job, and there was a $100K difference from the top guys. If I had used a major, brand name contractor that difference would have been more like $150 or $200K. I can't imagine how that could even be possible. If I was low by that much, It'd probably be my last job as a contractor!
that much of a differance should've been enough of a red flag to turn and run.! not sign the dotted line and think they wuoldn't try to make up the differance later. not sure who i feel for here.
that much of a differance should've been enough of a red flag to turn and run.! not sign the dotted line and think they wuoldn't try to make up the differance later. not sure who i feel for here.
I bet he knew there was a good chance they'd try to make it up later. And they knew they'd have to. I don't feel sorry for either. This is the dance that happens on so many jobs.
Now, the game is on!
k
(p.s. -I try to do it differently)
The way contracting works in Japan is a little different than in America, though. Big firms have vast amounts of overhead and this gets extracted from the customer, who is willing to pay for brand and franchise.High bid on this job was about $600K, for big brand name contractor "M", the Japanese version of Toll Brothers. This big firm spends upwards of $300 million a year (more than McDonalds or Coca Cola) just on prime time TV advertizing, not to speak of thousands of model housees that burn $1M year each, not to speak of their fancy research center, hordes of expensive salesmen, etc. Very, very high overhead. These guys build 50K units a year, and as far as I can tell their quality is no better than the little guy, since they use all the same subs and specs. My framing sub also does jobs for this brand name contractor.Mid-level bid was around $500K, for a micro-cap local firm that I liked very much. This firm only builds 30 units a year, but they also have the million dollar a year show house, and also very high presentation and planning overhead, so I could see where the markup was going. They gave me a very fine breakdown on the cost and I saw line items such as $100K for lumber package and $7K for caulking the siding, so I felt that they were burying their overhead in certain parts of the estimate. Also, like a lot of small firms, this company is tied up in a couple of technology franchises, which add branding and image power to their presentation but also extract a premium at the bottom line. This tiny firm spent hundreds of manhours on free design proposals and presentations to try and get us to sign. I hate to think of what the cost must have been, and I felt guilty saying no to them, because of the earnestness of their effort.The low bidder has a tiny operation out of a storefront and they build a heck of a lot of houses. Obviously low overhead and all the line items in the estimate were pretty much in accordance with the numbers in the big national estimator book. Their only marketing is their website and word of mouth. They have no franchises. And actually they started out as framing sub for big company M above, so, I figured this was a hungry and mean operation that would represent good value. And it has been. Just not so smooth of an operation.The coordination problem here is that their project manager and support staff have fallen down on the job. My architect gave him a stern talking to, but they all just try to ignore my architect.In short, I think the main difference between the high bidder and the low bidder is the quality of the people in their office. Big company gets first round draft picks of graduates of elite universities, very sharp and hard-working people. Small company hires people off the street who are less motivated and skilled.Having said all that, there was a very large number of firms who took one look at my project and requirements and refused to talk to me. Maybe they were the smart ones.
Actually, I have an interesting little side story about contractor "B", the $500K guy. That $100K lumber package is for a franchised technology involving engineered wood and euro-style metal connectors. Great stuff, but there are also lots of other generic framing systems of similar performance on the market for muuuuch less money.So I go in for a sales pitch meeting, and they bring in a big architect from the main office of the franchise, and he very knowledgeably runs through the sales pitch to explain why I should pay an extra $75K for his wood and metal doohickeys.There is a slide in the glitsy presentation that shows a room filled with young women working away at huge CAD monitors, doing the framing plans for houses. My eyes bug out because I know damnid well they are paying those girls, who wouldn't know a hammer if it bit them in the a$$, all of about $10 on a short term contract, with no benefits."So waitaminute, you mean to tell me you have got a bunch of low-paid girls doing the design and then you turn around and charge me top dollar? What makes this all worth the high price over the generic package?"And the answer surprised the heck out of me: "software.""It's all in the software. We've got a proprietary software that allows us to fine tune your building by tweaking the sheathing nail pitch and other things in the structural calculation so that you have the optimum balance and seismic performance....and yada yada yada."I practically spewed my coffee.
At least you can get coffee in Japan. That would be a deal breaker for a lot of us.
Yeah. Lots a coffee. Another thing that is different for the Japanese carpenter is the canned coffee. There is pretty much always a vending machine within walking distance of the jobsite in Japan, so the apprentice is given some money and told to go get the canned coffee for breaks.There's about 18 different varieties, although most of it is pretty close to what we call "regular" in New York -- milk and sugar, and it costs about $1.20 a can, hot or cold.
This tiny firm spent hundreds of manhours on free design proposals and presentations to try and get us to sign
Wow. I can't imagine. I don't like to spend more than a couple hours unless I get a real strong vibe they really want me! "...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Actually, the firm I selected did at least 25 two-hour meetings with two staffers and myself and/or my architect before we ended up signing anything. My head aches just to think of it.
Carpenters have left the jobsite and that just leaves me and the plumber and electrician.I spent the past couple of days caulking up around the rim joists, around windows, etc. A little more to do.They want a whole lot of money to install fiberglass or rock wool insulation in the stud bays, so I am going to do it myself. My spec calls for unfaced batts. I have found some nifty high density stuff.I've never installed unfaced batts before. I understand they stay in by friction fit for the walls, but how does this work in horizontal rafter bays under a flat roof? I am afraid that the weight of ten inches of high density glass will cause them to sag. How do you hold them up before the rock goes on?
You can put them in after partially rocking the lid, or you can staple piano or bailing wire perpendicular to the joists, 2' o.c."...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
I see. How about fishing line or nylon chalk line?
sure, why not"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Next problem, is headers and ductwork. Despite my forewarnings, protests and complaints, (because I have to install a bunch of 9" duct) they installed headers over all interior doors. Well, it seems to be a kneejerk response, all openings get headers, whether they need them or not.There are a couple of headers that I need to pull down and replace with box beams or something. The carpenter is very uneasy about this, since this is what he's been taught -- headers over openings.Framing inspection is all over, though, and it's very common to swap stuff out after inspections. Actually, that goes for all fields in Japan. For instance, if a guy has a customized car, he has to replace all the non-stock items every two years to pass inspection.On this project, we are going to modify these headers, add a little to the floor space in the atrium (hehehe), replace faucets, replace headers, replace light switches (swapping in Insteon), railings and possibly some other stuff. This is all because of paperwork and inspections.
Edited 3/1/2009 11:06 am by talkingdog
By interior walls I assume you mean non-bearing walls: no load above to make the structural load-bearing header necessary.
I see that with truss roof systems here - the trusses generally bear on exterior walls, and "float" (sliding truss clip) over interior walls - hence, a 2x4 header is adequate on the interior non load-bearing walls."...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Yeah, I mean the non-load bearing walls. For that matter, this could just as well mean the exterior gable end headers. They get apoplectic when I suggest that a header is not necessary under a roof truss. Just plain lack of basic engineering knowledge.
Edited 3/1/2009 7:39 pm by talkingdog
Consider tiger teeth
http://store.contractor-pro.com/insulation-supports-c-54.html
Short cut stiff wires that push against the insulation and hold it up by biting into the joist.
Thanks for that tip on Tiger Teeth. That is just the product I was thinking of. I suppose I could make my own with some good stiff wire and bolt cutters.
I thought those were called lightning rods? I would not use them if possible, because they compress the insulation (however slightly). Stapling thin string or wire across the joists is easy and leaves the insulation laying flat. I can buy twine in a 4500 foot box here and that's one good use for it.
I do keep a box of lightning rods in my truck. They are very handy for puncturing caulk tube seals even if you have cut a very small hole in the tip.
any chance of getting your observations and pictures of the plumbing work . really enjoyed following your threads
If you are late coming to the discussion, there are some pictures of the rough plumbing here:http://www.flickr.com/photos/talkingdog/3126039333/in/set-72157609659240646/The big pipes are the brown water, and I am not sure why there are two. Maybe one is for the first floor toilet and one for the second floor toilet. Then there is another toilet on its own line on the other side of the house. If that is the case, then each of the three toilets in the house is on its own waste line.
Edited 3/3/2009 9:29 pm by talkingdog
I'm not a plumber, but I recall from a plumbing inspection class I took a while ago that in San Francisco it used to be that the only trap required was at the main sewer at the street. This may have changed. San Francisco and Los Angeles are "charter" cities, which means they can make their own codes, not subject to the State of California codes. Having been to other coutntries where waste venting is not used, I can say that it makes a difference to vent it!
By the way, thanks Talkingdog for this very interesting and informative thread!
Vents or no vents, just having a flush toilet will be a treat for us!First ten years we lived here not we had an old fashioned honey-pot type squat toilet that was outside. I improved it by adding a lid to the hole, then adding an ventilation fan with a chimney stack.Then came the big step when the toilet was moved inside. No longer did we have to get bundled up in foul weather gear just to go to the toilet. It's a sit-down affair, and I plumbed in a little sink so you could was your hands. It's like paradise compared to what went before -- except that you do tend to get a backdraft into the crawlspace during winter, which does seep up under the floorboards!
As for "charter" cities, I think NYC must be one of those, because it has peculiar codes, too. Except instead of being lax they have a tendency to tough.
Somebody above made a comment about communicating with the crew in Japanese. If you have ever run a crew in another language, for instance Spanish, you know this can be a big problem at times.Japanese is a particularly problematic language, and sometimes communication even among native speakers gets bogged down. Today we had an object lesson in this. We decided to make some homemade Maine Deck Hangers out of H beam steel. I asked my architect to make sure they were hot dipped galvanized. He told their architect this verbally, using the appropriate industry standard term, and they priced it into their estimate.Finally the deck hangers are done and they arrive on the jobsite coated with red lead. I say no go, gotta be galvanized. Architect repeats request to their guy, who again misunderstands.So today he shows up with the red lead hanger spray-painted silver. Lather rinse repeat. Now they have to remake the deck hangers. Moral of the story is that even if you are a pro these communication mistakes can happen.
Edited 3/4/2009 8:51 am by talkingdog
apparently its a tough language to master
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090304/ap_on_re_as/as_japan_reading_japanese
"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Japanese language is a cobbler's workshop, kinda like English. Actually, it's worse, since they tend to embrace all sorts of different systems at the same time. One concrete example of this is measurement systems. On the jobsite the roofers are using traditional Japanese measures (shaku), the carpenters are using metric, and the plumbers are using American (3/4", 1/2", etc.)Sometimes one will see measurements in two different systems on the same drawing. Do you think this is offensive? If so, then you are not Japanese.Same goes with written Japanese. They mix four different writing systems in the typical text, and then add a whole bunch of other cryptic symbols like stars and arrows and hearts and so forth.
wonder when the E U was formed if they tried to standardize plumbing in any way? One problem in turkey (not in the EU) is that toilet waste lines are too small and clog up.
I have been completely beset with my day job, and also going out to the site and working almost every day, and on top of this almost incapacitated by cedar pollen allergy.This week I removed a couple of the non-critical headers and replaced them with box beams. Whew, what a job! Also, I set up a couple of openings for pocket doors. Tomorrow I will do a trial installation of a pocket door. I am using local hardware with ball bearing rollers and 1 1/4" lumber core plywood for the door.I ordered an Eurekazone track system, and this finally arrived, so I spent the day yesterday cutting up a whole bunch of lumbercore plywood into door jambs. I couldn't find nice clear (affordable) wood and there is no MDF around here in the right size, so I am resorting to lumbercore.As advertized, the Eurekazone rig does cut a very clean and straight line. Next I am going to use it to cut big holes for glass in the door panels.
For the headers, here's a Japanese trick - use a big wooden mallet - things go a lot smoother! =)
Don't know too much about "lumbercore plywood" - but its gotta be better than cardboard (mdf).
EZ - I wanted one for years. Finally got me a DeWalt track saw - I love it! Dino used to hang out here (at BT) and seems like a good guy, lots of guys love his stuff. I like my DW track saw, I use it pretty regular.
Don't leave us hanging - give us some updated photos from time to time. Us out-of-work guys like to be reminded of what a job looks like.
"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Yeah, that big mallet would have come in handy. Next time, maybe. But hopefully there will be no next time in this lifetime. Somewhere along the way I have become a great believer in wooden wedges. Very useful tool and very quick to make.As for the lumbercore, they use a lot of the stuff here. Doors on custom cabinetry will generally be lumbercore. Very nice product.More pictures coming soon. We've been a little stalled out here for a month, waiting for inspectors, but now the work will move forward some more.
Electrician has run most of the lines in the house, and all the interim inspections are passed. Now the only thing holding us up is my door buck installations and the imported windows, which still haven't arrived. Tentatively scheduled for sheetrocking in the second week of April, one month behind schedule.Some photos of electrical work to follow.I had a very hard time figuring out what to do about all the downlights in my house, 36 of them, since Panasonic's designer had spec'd mini-kryptons for everything. I don't hate the light from krypton bulbs, but they are not particularly cheap or long-lived or energy efficient, and moreover I observe that they have more glare than the alternative, dichroic halogen reflectors, which are available in 3000K.I finally found a downlight fixture in a 4 inch size that is both airtight and insulated, along with accepting halogens. One problem with Juno, Halo et al is that I could not find an airtight and insulated fixture in such a small diameter (100 mm). My architect insists that fixtures larger than 100 mm look too "developer grade."Once I get the fixtures, then there is the problem of getting the right bulbs at the right price. The specified bulb for this fixture, which is Panasonic, are the state-of-the-art low-energy dichroic reflector in 2" size, and these are the ones used in stores and galleries because of their low UV emissions and low-heat. The Panasonic bulbs are very pricey, about $15 ea., but I may be able to find an alternative at half that. Of course by the time the first batch burn out, these state-of-the-art bulbs will be old hat and selling for a steep discount.
Lumbercore is linden-faced plies over luan lumber. I use a lot of it for cabs and shelving, as I can order it from 1/4" all the way to 1 1/4" thick. I imagine you've used it before, one thing, make sure you use a proper mask, because the sawdust produced when cutting it is really, really bad for you. I don't have any allergies or problems with dust at the jobsites, but lumbercore dust will make me cough almost until the point of gagging right away. Its very fine, and hard to trap/collect. I also find lumbercore hard to rout, definitely not as easy as regular plywood, the lumber middle rips out easily. Also, the edges suck up glue like crazy, so apply it in abundance. The linden face is immaculate though, like grade 1 plywood back home. Just wish there were more options for species, etc. Are you getting the lumbercore in 4x8 sheets, its a little more cost effective to get the bigger sheets.
SS
Yeah, I had a reaction to the dust and put on a mask. I've got the big 4x8 sheets. Very nice stuff. Nicest plywood I have ever worked with.The other day in the lumber yard they owner pulled some tropical lumber off the rack and ran it through the planer once for me, to see how it would plane up. I practically had a conniption from the dust, coughing and sneezing all the way home. Sheesh. Now way I want to work with that stuff.
He probably didn't have a dust mask on right? I had to order the Wilson Safe-T-Fit N95 masks from the US, because I couldn't find any that met proper dusk specs here...
S
Safety? Not a big concept with him. Strictly old school.If I ever get my own shop space again I am going to get myself one of those space walk type respirator systems.
I have been struggling between my day job and trying to get the pocket door and other door frames in. Almost done with it.Next, I have to run some conduit for low voltage wires, do some more caulking and the like, then install the high density unfaced batts. I managed to find a place online that gave me a bid of just about half the price my contractor quoted on the unfaced batts. Wow. Next, the drywall. We have to decide whether to go with untapered or tapered sheetrock. Normally they use untapered rock, and tapered costs more.Now, here's my big question. I intend to do a level five finish on the drywall myself using D-Mix over self-adhesive FG mesh tape.If I use untapered rock am I going to have a lot of difficulty with all those joints under the D-Mix? Any tips or tricks about how to keep the joints from telegraphing through? Am I going to wish I had used tapered rock?
Edited 4/28/2009 6:12 am by talkingdog
You might want to have a look here if you decide to go with the non-taper drywall.
tapered is better"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Are you not planning on using joint compound and going for a conventional level 4 finish prior to the D-mix?I always assumed the D-mix was only for skimming out walls that had already been taped, skimmed, and sanded.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Gee, reading over the various D-Mix messages, it seems that some people use it from the start, embedding the tape and all.
One thing that surprised me was to find out that when the Japanese paint walls (usually only commercial construction) they do a Level 5 with plaster and also some sort of cloth substrate. Painted walls very expensive.Instead, everything gets vinyl wallcovering.BTW, did anybody see that story yesterday connecting vinyl flooring with autism in children? I wonder if those results would also hold for vinyl wall covering.
Ok, so today we decided to go ahead and do the the whole thing with tapered, except the stairwell, which is going to get wallpaper.
you could use the 'butt-taper' tool, there is a website
click the photoView Image"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
That is a pretty amazing video. The technique makes sense. I have on occasion been able to install single sheets of 3x6 sheetrock by myself, with no lift or crutch, balancing the board on one palm and with the screwguy in the other hand. Not a pretty process.Fortunately the high-lama carpenters are going to rock this place, not me. I really loathe sheetrocking.I am more of a plasterman.
The electrical is just about finished and the carpenter is raring to go with the sheetrock. Only problem is, they still haven't got problems with the roof solved (skylights aren't in) so there is some leaking and I am reluctant to give the go ahead with the rocking, of course, until it's verified that the roof is weathertight. So the cart is trying to get ahead of the horse.If you have been following this story, the skylights have been a problem from day one in that it's been tough to find the right product for the application at a price that I can afford. I ended up finding a Velux model that is export restricted, so I have to import it to Japan in the luggage, so to speak. This is easier said than done, and there has been a ripple effect through the whole job, affecting the carpenter, the waterproofer, me, the siding guy, the sheet metal guy, et al.
Some pictures of electrical wiring:
View ImageComing into the box, neatly labelled.
View ImageNeatly wrapped bundles snaking around the skylight holes
View Image
Connections made with stab-in connectors instead of wire nuts. Electrician has never heard of wire nuts. I've done some wiring with these connectors myself and they are pretty darned handy.
Edited 4/8/2009 11:23 pm by talkingdog
OK, and now we are ready for quiz question no. 3 (or is it 4?). What is the purpose of the metallic strips on the switchbox in the first photo in the post above?I am thinking of making the first prize in the contest one of those nifty Japanese 2x4 framing squares (that Tategata likes so much).
here's my guess-
they help in finding the boxes behind the sheetrock, using a stud sensor type finder that will hit on the metallic strips?
k
Yup. So then the sparky rotozips out the boxes. Rocker does not do any cutouts for electrical boxes or downlights, it's all the sparky's job.
I guess if the sparky's the guy doing the rotozip then he can't complain if someone nicks the jacket during cutout.
Good luck with the "luggage".
k
I guess I'm not allowed to answer the question as I see those everyday at my jobsites..... electricians have been using those connectors for about 3 years down here in Kyushu, you can't even buy the old wire screw caps anymore. I read somewhere that those connectors can come undone and may be a fire hazard....but I wired up my workshop here using them, and they are nearly impossible to take out once their are inserted into the hole.
As for skylights, I used to get mine through Loewen Windows in Canada, and I used to sell them "under the table" to customers who bought Loewen. The big thing was, they were not under warranty, and skylights leak sometimes. Even then, the price difference in the same windows was shocking, 3-4 times the price here in Japan.....
Who is installing them? The roofers down here also act as flashing specialists too, so I install the skylight, and they do the flashing kits..... I've never had one leak yet. These days the company I subcontract for is using all Tostem skylights though, which look like a cheaper version of Velux....the jambs for them come pre-finished in a wierd-wood looking color.....
Hope they get the leak fixed before the rainy season....
SS
The big problem with this house is that I am pushing the envelope in every possible way. The height limit is 10000 mm and we are built
up to 9910 mm. If I put in skylights, either Velux or YKK, Tostem, etc, they all require a 15 degree slope which would put us above the 10000 mm height limit. So I found these US-only Veluxes that can be installed flat, and that's what I am trying to import. Except Velux won't allow the dealer to export them directly, so I have a pain in my neck.The skylights will be installed on top of a fiberglassed-in curb. Carpenter is going to do it.
I discovered something the other day which perhaps explains why my silicon caulk doesn't stick as well as I expected on the framing: the framing lumber all has a coating of wax on it.I had never heard of this practice of coating lumber with wax, just the ends. Apparently, according to the carpenter, as a result construction adhesive doesn't stick as well. I wonder if this means I am going to have a squeaky floor in a couple of years.
Huh, that's a new one on me. I'd heard of entire logs getting paraffin coatings and being sunk in Tokyo bay, but I never heard of wax coated dimensional lumber. Is it a part of the cnc process?
That can't help adhesion, that's for sure. What did the carpenter say they do to strip it? Or do they just not use subfloor adhesive? Weird.
k
Heck no they don't strip it, they just squeeze on some urethane adhesive and that's it. I need to inquire about this further, because it's intriguing.Come to think of it, this particular lumber used in this job does have a sort of silk feel to it, different from the other J-Grade lumber I have handled.
Tatekata, are you sure they have only been using those connectors for three years where you are? My guy says he's been using them here for the fifteen years he's been in the trade. I used them on a project up in Nagano about four years ago.As for wire nuts or caps, he's never seen those, he says. Before these stab connectors they used to do everything with crimped sleeves.That's the way my old house was done, maybe 25 or 30 years ago, with sleeves that were then taped. All the additions I made to the wiring here were also done with sleeves, which you can still get in the stores here.I rather like using sleeves because the connection is so darned positive. Once you crimp that sleeve that's it, it's like the thing is welded on there.
Whoops! I'm getting out of my field.....Kyushu is behind the rest of Japan. I used to sell Loewen Windows here in Japan many years ago. I traveled all over the country and met a lot of komutens and architects. Kyushu companies always seemed to be a few steps behind everyone else.
When I lived in Fukuoka, I built 2x4 houses for a pretty expensive import housing company. The electricians there did everything with the screw on caps, they also used a lot of US switches, and all American lights. I only saw the newest style of connectors when I came back to Oita a few years ago.....
Things vary so much with regions here in Japan. I built 2 houses in Nagano, the last being 4 years back, and the Japanese terms they used for tools, etc. were totally different. The last house I built there was a log house, and they did things in different orders, etc., I was totally stressed out trying to get people to do things my "Kyushu" way, as I was responsible for the raising and carpentry of the house.
Are they really strict with your house's height limitations? I've run into problems with restrictions before, had to cut back soffits, etc, but I find it depends on the architect. I've never seen anybody actually go out and measure heights, etc., as the city trusts the blueprints most of the time. I guess it depends on where you are. I built a ton of log houses here in Japan and the architects were always using "back doors" to get around a lot of the laws.
SS
I am not surprised at the regional differences. You probably know that the dialects between Aomori and Kyushu can be so different that two people speaking dialect cannot understand each other.For the curious, Kyushu is sort of the Arkansas of Japan. Nagano is kind of like the Vermont.
As for the height limitations, they inspect at the stage of framing to determine that the permit plans are followed as to height.In my case, since we are on a terraced hillside, there are a number of people above me who could report me, so I want to play it cautious and not get in trouble right off the bat.
A shot of the skylight openings all glassed in and ready for windows. I wish they had done this two months ago.
View Image
Edited 4/11/2009 7:16 am by talkingdog
that looks pretty!"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Final confrontation of many confrontations with carpenter resulted on Friday in me totally losing my cool, telling him to pack his tools and get off my jobsite.Here's what happened. Due to delays in the arrival of skylights and windows, which were ordered from abroad, the whole process of sealing up the building envelope was disrupted -- that is, the siding and parapet coping are still not installed -- and we have had recurring problems with leaks.Because numerous attempts to fix patch up these leaks have failed, and as the season heats up the possibility of mold blooming increases, I have entered almost a panic mentality.At the same time the carpenter had finished up most of his backframing (but not all) and most of (but not all) of his other tasks, and was frantic to get started with the sheetrocking, probably, I suppose, due to the need to get some lucrative billable work done rather than farting around with odds and ends.My position was that the rocking should wait until the leaks are positively fixed, however long that might take, and I expressed this on a number of occasions in meetings. The carpenter's refrain to myself and the architects was "No, I am going to go ahead and rock except around where it's leaking." Nobody could dissuade him.Finally, in exasperation, I told the architects to decide on it and issue directions. Then I got the call that they had decided the rocking would be postponed.Then I show up at the site and find the carpenter happily rocking away and it pushed me over the edge.
That's no fun!
Well, if the owner (you) and the architect all agreed that the drywall needed to wait, (and told him so) then he shouldn't have started rocking. Period.
Although, I can appreciate his stress (especially since the skylights are um, unusually procured), but tough, I guess. Any chance he'll mention the grey market velux to the authorities?
But I'm confused as to why the parapets and siding can't be waterproofed in until the sklights arrive. Am I missing something?
k
>But I'm confused as to why the parapets and siding can't be waterproofed in until the sklights arrive. Am I missing something?Skylight mounts are waterproofed and everything that can be is taped, etc. Still, water is getting in from somewhere. Who knows? It's a mystery.Tomorrow the roofer will lay down the galvalume, and after that the siding guy will tramp all over the new galvalume roof putting on the fibercement panels and the coping. Meanwhile I am done with my door frames and am now wearing a white bunny suit and installing unfaced high density FG batts in the stud bays and under the roof. DIYing the insulation is saving me $8K.I should just add that we have had a couple of pretty hot days already and I was very impressed with how a mere inch and a quarter of polyiso with foil could keep the walls so cool. Sheathing and roof deck were barely warm to the touch. The addition of high-density FG should push the walls well over R-20.
Fast and furious action from the builder after the carpenter was kicked off, as the site supervisor and the roofer made numerous trips to try fixes to the leaks. The roof metal was laid, and then covered. Windows were re-flashed, etc. I realized that the site supervisor had just been blowing our site off, hadn't seen him on the site ever, outside of a meeting. Prolly the hour and a half drive to the site.Then last Saturday we had a real cats’n’dogs downpour, and not only did the same places leak, we discovered one more roof leak and then a whole bunch of problems with Marvin window flashing and leaks at penetrations. Actually, these latter were discovered while I was installing batts of high-density fiberglass in the bays under the windows.Roofer came back out and fixed, I hope for the last time, the two leaks in the roof. The most stubborn leak was at a joint between two horizontal pieces of metal flashing, which had not been caulked with assurance. The other leak was in a similar situation involving the fiberglass terrace waterproofing, and the solution here was also caulk. I am not a great believer in caulk, and solving problems in this manner does not fill me with confidence.The leaks at the windows and penetrations will hopefully be rectified naturally by the installation of siding and parapet coping. I may ask them to reinstall the Marvin Integrity windows, because I detected that the carpenter actually destroyed the effectiveness of the back dam in the pan flashing by cutting it down when he installed them at the sill. He did not shim the windows up so that the back dam could fit under them, he just cut it off flush so that the bottom of the window would sit flat on the rough opening. Not pleased about this, because I feel I paid a lot of money and spent a lot of effort specifying a certain grade of installation that should be triple redundant -- and isn't.I believe if the back dam were functioning properly then I would perhaps not have any problems with these windows. At any rate, they do seem harder to waterproof than the Japanese YKK windows, and my feeling is that with that much tape and caulk on them they should be able to survive a nuclear rainstrike.Finally, I got the downstairs installed with the FG batts. A lot more work than I was expecting, as every single goshdarned one had to be cut. Anyway, I have done a fairly neat and tidy job of it, and the installation looks pretty good for an amateur, I'd say. It's going to take me another week at least to do the upstairs and under the roof. Meanwhile, they are going to be starting on installing the 9/16" fibercement panels.
well, things are moving along - I was beginning to wonder! "the installation looks pretty good for an amateur" - what, and no supporting pics? And here in the Photo Gallery, no less!
I'm glad it doesn't rain here in So. Cal.! I have no idea what I'd do if I ever had to seriously waterproof a building!"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Back in June of 07 we got something like 45 inches of rain in one month. Anyway the builder is required by law to warranty against leaks for 10 years, so waterproofing is really not my issue.This building of ours is a problem at the moment primarily because there are no gutters, coping or siding yet. So all the water
coming off the roof drains in a torrent down on the poor Marvin
windows, as my old Pappy would say, "like a cow pi$$in down stairs."
Here are some recent pictures
A poor-quality photo of me suited up and installing the batts:
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Roofers at work on the tricky notch in the galvalume at the entryway:
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Completed roof detail:
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Edited 4/28/2009 2:53 am by talkingdog
Today is a national holiday, Children's Day, and since the children come back from grandma's house today, I am going to stay home and do something special with them.I have spent most of Golden Week holidays installing the installation, and it is now pretty much done. I have to wire-up some places in the ceiling where it is sagging, but thanks to all the blocking the carpenter installed for fastening sheetrock butt joints the insulation is supported for the most part. What do you all use to fasten your wire -- staples?I also did the communications wiring, and it has had me scratching my head. Getting the satellite dish cables right is the first problem. Most people manage to run both their dish and antenna off one cable, but since I have to have my imported programming off SkyPerfectTV, and in HD, I have discovered I need to run another cable. Heck.And then there is the fiber optic telephone system.This turns out to be a big problem. The conduit I laboriously installed, which goes to my server closet, is way too tight and twisty for the telephone guy to snake the delicate fiber cable, so now it looks like I will have the router in a corner of my living room, until I can figure something else out.Coming out of the fiber optic router we have a LAN cable for internet and then, amazingly, copper pair wires for old-fashioned telephones, which will behave like they are attached to an old-fashioned network.It looks like I am going to have to have not one but two fiber lines coming into the house, incredibly, because the standard home fiber setup only give me two numbers, and I need a business line and fax, too. You'd think they could run thousands of numbers off the same piece of fiber, but that's bureaucracy for you.Another possibility is that I could stay with the standard two fiber numbers, then get a VOIP router and run my business off the VOIP. That idea makes me a little uneasy, though.Need more research.
I have to wire-up some places in the ceiling where it is sagging, but thanks to all the blocking the carpenter installed for fastening sheetrock butt joints the insulation is supported for the most part. What do you all use to fasten your wire -- staples?
I guess generally in a ceiling I'd just let it sag until the drywall goes up, but when I've had to support batts in a crawlspace, where there was nothing to hold it up, we used stiff wire that just flexed into place between the joists. No staples or fasteners needed.
I think Simpson sells "Insulation Supports" or you can buy stiff wire about coat hanger gauge and cut your own. I don't know if the store-bought variety will fit your joist bays.
k
Nobody here thinks the amount of sag in the insulation is a problem, so I am leavin' it.There were a few bags of leftover rockwool sound insulation, so I am putting that in the walls around the bedrooms and bathrooms now.I am not too fond of the FG powder grit left behind, so I went around and vacuumed the whole house spic and span.Yesterday, I decided to make a little exploratory visit to the crawlspace, and I forgot that the whole slab would be covered with FG dust. I got a bad case of forearms. Spent the evening trying to get the fibers out of my arms by sticking duct tape on and pulling it off.The crawlspace is dry near the entrance, but in the reaches there are places where there is a sheen of water on the surface from the concrete drying. How long does this normally take to dry out, in a sealed crawl with foam around the perimeter (seems like it must take a loooong time)? I think I had better get my multi-port fan setup going down there.
Coincidentally, I found myself facing serious sagging insulation this week- 30" rafter bays, lengths of batts running perpendicular and strung up with string in an attic I was working on. It all fell down around me, and now I'm pondering how to support insulation in a 30" bay that isn't getting drywall. The wire supports are for 16 and 24" bays, iirc. Strapping mebbe?
As far as the itchies go, an old installer once told me the secret is to go from hot to ice cold water in the shower. Hot and sudsy, hot and rinsy, then bam! ice cold to close up the pores and rinse off whatever's on the surface before it can find a pore. Kinda works. (Not really... but I still do it.)
How long's that concrete been curing? I don't have a lot of experience with slabs curing indoors. Seems like the chemical hydration usually burns the water up pretty quick, but I've only done outdoor flatwork. Maybe try brownbagg? he's sort of the concrete guru.
k
sounds like you need to pull out the big guns? How about ripping strips of the thinnest plywood you can find? And infilling the rafters between the cross strapping?
Yeah, that's more or less what I was thinking. I wasn't expecting to be fighting insulation on this one... sigh. Ah well, that's why I make the big bucks. (Riiight.)
k
Thanks for the tip, will have to try.Concrete starts with a lot of water in it, and that water has to go somewhere, right? I have plastic under it and foam at the perimeter, so I guess the only thing it can do is evaporate at the areas that are exposed to air. With the thing sealed up, there must not be much airflow.I think I will open up some two inch holes in the subfloor at the far corners, which is where the high velocity outlets will eventually go. Then put a fan in there and start sucking out air 24/7.Or maybe this is the exact wrong thing to do. Bringing in humid summer air may just compound the problem. I need to bring dry air in, or else put a dehumidifier down there.The air coming out of that crawlspace has an *overwhelming* smell of yellow cedar. It's fragrant in small doses, but this level is almost sickening.
Bay windows with the silver hats:
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Edited 5/24/2009 12:42 am by talkingdog
How long do you have to leave the scrfeen in place around the house?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
You mean the scaffolding with the mesh? It stays up until we get the thing painted, after the siding is installed. I expect that is going to take another month, at this rate.I'll be out there on that scaffolding painting in the rainy season.
My architect says that I am stuck with the white color of the Marvin Ultimate windows in the bay windows above, as they can't be painted. Is that really true? It's just aluminum, right? Why can't I spray on a good primer and paint whatever topcoat I want?
I just found this thread and spent an hour and twenty minutes reading it. Very cool.
Kowboy
Coming to a bookstore near you soon.
Following up on my fiber optic woes. We've got some real experts
on my local mailing list here in Japan, and I have gotten great advice as always.One thing I was told was to pull two LAN cables per room, and, if necessary, use one of them for the analog telephone devices. Duh! I totally missed, that. It's the same spec as analog telephone wire, just more colored wires inside the cable.So I pulled a bunch more cable, and also more TV cable, once I figured out what the satellite situation would be. I had to dig down through the literature to find the right HD recorder for my particular satellite box, and also one that would handle High def broadcasts, and then a way to share that with the other TVs in the house. Next, the fiber just ain't comin' into the house from the front, noway nohow. Too many twists in the conduit, and fiber cable is too delicate.So some genius suggested I bring it through a hole in the back of the house. And indeed, I was able to put in a nice smooth run of conduit to the server closet from the back side. Now I have to cut a channel in the insulation all along the south side of the house and bury about 30 feet of smooth electrical conduit for the run from the street around to the back. (I do not want the telephone company just tacking their goshdarned cable onto the side of my house.)And then we have got to find a way to get the cable around the corner and connect up with the cable-ready hole in the wall. Have to avoid sharp bends. I think I will put an access hatch in the conduit, so they can pull the cable in relays.Fiber optic is a world of pain. It took me half a day just to place the order, and I am not at all sure I understand the contents of what I agreed to.
The problem with paintiong the windows is that darker colors absorb heat from the sun and can distort the frames. Have you checked the manufacturers website? "Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I am going to paint them silver, so I suspect it's pretty
much the same as white on that score.
Carpenter is now rocking the second floor. He's got an interesting setup.Cutting is done with a Makita 4 inch saw with dust collection system.
Nobody cuts board with a utility knife anymore, he said. All carpenters have to hve one of these 4 inch saws for cutting the white fireproof roof underlayment, so I guess it's natural that they would start using them for sheetrock too. Nailing is done with a pneumatic coil screw gun. Sounds just like a regular nailer, and just that fast. Freakin amazing. Dunno who the maker is, but it's gold colored, so I think it's a Max. And real expensive.Another thing that is a little different is that they always chamfer the but joints with a little block plane. This is a nice touch.
Second floor, stairwell, and penthouse are all rocked. Carpenter,
who is the young journeyman mentioned at the beginning of the story,
the guy with the kung fu shoes (now he's wearing white ones), asks
me what the strange step on the edge of the rock is.He's never seen tapered rock before. Anyway, he does a nice, neat job,
and indeed draws neat nailer line on each sheet.I have never seen one of these coil air screwguns in action before.
It's almost unbelievable how fast the thing is.Even with the mustard colored sheetrock, the space is so bright, especially on the lakeside. The glare coming in off the lake through the big window is almost overpowering.
Some pictures of the rocked rooms:
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In this photo, the carpenter is applying some adhesive before the board goes up, since I am sealing and adhering the rock on all the outside surfaces. This should make the house stronger and more airtight.
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Here's a shot of the living/dining room with 11 foot ceiling.
Edited 6/1/2009 10:01 pm by talkingdog
looks sharp! what's the bead/moulding strip on the wall behind little grasshopper? Almost looks like tatami mats on the wall...
very nice, very clean.
k
Looks like an expansion joint- something rarely (never?) seen on residential construction here in the states."Brilliance!! That's all I can say- Sheer, unadulterated brilliance!!" Wile E. Coyote- Super Genius
Yep, that's an expansion joint. The lead carpenter advised putting one
in at the level of the second floor deck because cracks tend to form when the deck surface expands. Sounds good to me. We put in another at the third floor.We didn't have the ready-made expansion joint product on hand, so this
one was made up by putting in two plastic J-beads, back to back.You frequently see these expansion joints used in Japanese modern houses, especially on the ceilings, but I think the purpose is more
to effect a transition between two different finishes rather than
mechanical, as in this case.
I actually like it just on aesthetics too- almost like a minimalist representation of a plate rail.
I think I remember seeing that detail as a capillary break in flood zones, too. (Probably lower on the wall, though).
k
In criticism of the sheetrocking, the work is neatly done, and very precise.However, my first complaint is that the reliance on the pneumatic nailer causes the same overdrive problem we saw with the sheathing. Airgun is not consistent enough for my liking.Second, as this is the first time this guy has ever even heard of tapered rock, naturally he would have no consciousness of butt joints. Joints are joints and they will be covered over by vinyl wallcovering, is his mentality. In other words, leave it all to the paperhanger.Hence, there is no planing or shimming of studs or other preparation of the frame before the board goes on, like you would see with really superior work. The ceiling gets rocked with six foot boards, since these are easy for one man to install alone, so there are 18 million butt joints.I am really skeered of how that stairwell is going to look once I get the skylights in and the paint on.
I can't believe you are worried about butt joints and are happy with that cheesy expansion joint?
I'll bet these guys will never be happier to finish a job. :) you must be the client from hades to them.
bwahahahaI've been proclaiming myself the client from hades since way before the contract was signed. But to be fair totally fair to me, when something is done well and right I am the first one to step forward and praise it, and I do this on a daily basis. If something is my fault I cop to it.The expansion joint will get plastered in and papered, so in the end it will be just a reveal. I have no problem with reveals, as this house is full of them. It's an intentional, modern detail. However, joints and cracks showing through the wallcovering are not intentional details. To bring it back to the Japanese Way, and how it's different from the American Way, what I am trying to say here is that wheras y'all are very concerned first and foremost about eliminating butt joints in ceilings and other areas for painting under harsh low-angle lighting, the Japanese don't even think about this, since their vinyl hides a world of sins. It doesn't even occur to them that butt joints are an issue.
We are pretty much all rocked-in now. The formerly dark downstairs is much brighter now.With the rock in, I am very impressed with the insulating performance of the house. It's actually chilly downstairs while outside it's hot. I am finishing up my totally insane project of site building entry door and sidelight. Or rather the door frame is almost done. 1/8" red cedar veneers epoxy-laminated over engineered wood jambs. I am going to finish it with Watco oil.Next, the siding gets installed next week, along with the coping. And not a moment too soon, because the rain we have been getting has been ruining the nice job they did of taping in the foil faced polyiso. Today I have to get out there and finish up a few details of the mods I've been making to the exterior.I don't know if I mentioned this, but I installed four water lines for outside faucets using PEX. I used the Tabuchi product off the shelves of the local home center. Comes in blue-colored insulated coils with sharkbite type conecter. Just as easy as advertised. Now, we'll have to see if I got any leaks.I ran one line up to the penthouse deck. I might run a hot water line up there too, and do what I see some people doing in the design magazines, put a small hot tub up there. Or would that be going too far?
would that be going too far?
go for it!
BTW - what happened to pictures - run out of alloted pixels?View Image"...everone needs to sit on a rock, listen to the surf, and feel the ocean breeze in their face once in awhile."
cambriadays.com
I have to get a new cell phone. My current one is giving me
fits, so I am not getting the pictures I want.
More pictures of mechanicals installed under the siding:
First, here's the smooth plastic conduit for fiber optic that I let into the foam, rounding the 125 degree corner. I had to heat the conduit up to bend it to this angle, and for this I built a little fire on the jobsite, worrying about whether the neighbors would call the fire dept.
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Here's where the smooth conduit meets the flex conduit, which sweeps in a broad arc in through the back of the house to end up in my server closet. A string pulls through this whole assembly very smoothly, so I expect there to be no problem installing the fiber.
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The homemade Maine deck bracket. Gee, I would design this differently if I were to do it over.
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Blocking for the satellite dish. Had to install a whole bunch of this kind of blocking on the other side, to hold the privacy screen, which will be installed over the siding.This blocking gets packed out another half inch, to be flush with the furring strips for siding, once they are installed. A royal pain.
View Image
Edited 6/28/2009 7:55 pm by talkingdog
Here's one more, a faucet. We are over the legal limit of faucets
in this house, so these were installed by me and are undocumented. Four in all.
View Image
I ran this line using insulated PEX, then I used PVC pipe on the exterior. My first experience with PEX, hope it doesn't leak!
Edited 6/28/2009 8:01 pm by talkingdog
How many faucets are you allowed, and why is there a limit?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
is there no inspector to catch the extra faucets?
He's not expected to go outside around the house.
hey man, how about some photos of your finish work?View Image
Photos of finish work? We're getting there, but nothing finished yet.I got the paint sprayer set up and all tried out yesterday, priming some jamb extensions. Now I have to paint the exterior. We're using latex silicon ceramic paint. Whatever that is.I am very pleased that the fiber optic install went smoothly
yesterday, without a hitch. I went to a fantastic amount of effort
to bury the conduit of the fiber inside the complicated structure
of this house, and I was not at all certain that they were going
to be able to pull the wire once the time came. So I was very happy to see the little black wire emerge from the
conduit on the end of the very long string. And now we have got
100 megabits, soon to be gigabit.Yeehaw!
what are you using the fiber optic for ?
Sorry for the late reply, somehow I did not get notification
of this post.The main purpose of the fiber optic is for very fast pr0n.
I have got the first coat of paint on the exterior. It's "raisin" colored paint silicon ceramic from Nippon Paint, matte finish, and it looks pretty good. My Wagner Paint Crew Pro sprayer clogged soon into
the spraying of primer, and I could not fix it. Somewhere there is a
jam-up in the inlet valve. So I am rolling the stuff on, one coat of
primer and two of finish.We are having an almost unprecedented rainy season this year, into August and still going strong, so I am having a hard time getting the painting done with all this rain.Meanwhile work is proceeding on the interior, with taping and painting. I am not the world's best taper, but I have the Ferguson book, and that is helping me a lot.
Exterior is all painted, looks good.Everything inside has a second coat of taping done. Not
the world'd greatest taper. One room is ready to paint. Still futzing around with
interior woodworking.Stairs go in next week. Won't be done by end of August, but getting close.
Edited 8/12/2009 7:21 pm by talkingdog
End of August, we're still at it. May be able to pass inspection in another month of work.Some cool pictures of the staircase going together using Festool Domino joinery. (Incidentally, this is work I am doing, not the carpenter)
View Image
Took me a couple of days to rout out the stringers for the two staircases, one of which is 18 feet long, and make and domino out the risers. Having a better tablesaw would have helped.
View Image
View Image
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These risers make a great sound once you drive them all the way home.
Edited 8/26/2009 8:14 pm by talkingdog
Compared to the typical steep Japanese staircase, this one is extremely flat, and our dog is enjoying scampering up and down it.http://www.flickr.com/photos/talkingdog/3861450337/Later on, when I get time, I will swap out these treads and install some nicer ones, all wired with little LED footlights underneath. But I don't have time to screw around with all that now, so this will ve to do.Next, I have to do the one upstairs, which is 18 feet long
and rises 12 feet. Treads will be done in perforated fiberglass
grating.
Very Nice! The steps look like they're cut from a solid core door blank.
View ImageView Image bakersfieldremodel.com
As for the treads, those are just cut from a 2x12 we had lying out in the yard all summer. Edge got burned in the sun. (I do have a lot of lumbercore cutoffs in that size though, and now trying to figure out what to do with them)I will eventually replace these with 1 1/2" thick hardwood treads, but first I have to shape and route each one of these for the installation of wiring for the LED footlights, so I figure I will hold off on that. This is good enough for now.
Today the scaffolding came down, and the house is exposed for all to see. It was a very strange feeling as they were tearing it down, excitement and a little sadness. Also, amazing how bright the interior is now, without the mesh. It's like a bunch of 1000w lights turned on.http://www.flickr.com/photos/talkingdog/3904582223
Edited 9/10/2009 10:52 am by talkingdog
Here's the shot from the street to the south of house.
View Image
Edited 9/10/2009 10:56 am by talkingdog
I got the second staircase, 6.2 M long, 3.3 m rise, assembled on Thursday. The woodworking came out better than the first one, and I finished it with a quick wipe-on of white latex paint. I put in some temporary treads, as the process of cutting and finishing the eventual 40 mm fiberglass grating treads is going to stretch into the future.Next day. the architect, who is tall, observed that we did not have enough headroom at one spot, due to undocumented changes I had them make in the plans, creating a soffit to hold an 18 inch air return. D'ohhh. Fortunately this was fixed in just one day with a little reframing, nothing structural.I am beginning to believe that the very first thing one should do in planning a space is figure out the size and placement of the air returns. One little bit of design serendipity. I discovered that from the landing of this staircase, which is a little book reading nook we have dubbed the "manga space," through the open riser treads of the staircase one can observe almost the whole house, from first to third floors. It's going to be a command center for my wife.
Still here, still going at it day by day. Today I finished at last the task of getting the front door installed. Now all I have to do is get a coat of red paint on it. Meanwhile carpenter is installing the engineered flooring, and cursing all the strange angles in the design.Bank deadline to pass inspection is set at 23rd of this month, and the site is now in an all hands on deck situation, as we rush to get all the finishes on and fixtures installed. Even so, if we can just barely pass inspection on the 23rd it's going to be pretty rough around the edges, and not really livable.
wheres the pictures?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/talkingdog/3060577435/in/set-72157609628329672/View Image my website
I've been kinda quiet here because I have been working flat out for the last three months trying to get ready for today.House passed final inspection today. Not exactly with flying colors, but we squeaked by, after what can only be described as a classic construction horror show of project management ineptitude on the part of the builder. PM came in at four pm on the afternoon of the day before the inspection, yesterday, and suddenly insisted that we had to redo the style of the casing on some 100 window and door frames. Bwahahaha.Even in a rough state of finish the house is stunning inside. Once we get it all dialed in and polished up it's going to be a knock-out.Many thanks to all the advice I have received over the years in this forum and in this thread. It's all expressed in the house, in a million little ways.
What was the deal with the casing?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
The story with the casing is that we were just planning to
go with a minimal look, just plaster-in jambs, but then they
decided that we had to install a casing between the jamb
and plastered-in edge of the sheetrock.
We now have a C of O!We have locked in the interest rate on the housing loan at 2.489, which the banker says is probably the bottom, as rates are starting to rise again. Closing is on Monday. There are still some charges from the builder that are in dispute, as they did a poor job with their paperwork on extras. They are actually trying to charge me for the outside plumbing trenches and cleanouts as a "extra."Meanwhile I am outside digging this week, putting in the storm sewer lines. A lot more digging and a lot harder on my old body than I was expecting.
Do you have to do guard rails with 4" spacing like we do here?John
No, we have no such guard rail requirement. I don't think you can have an open riser stair either, right?I only have to provide the single handrail. In this case, since we have small children, there is going to be a net attached to the handrail and then wrapped around the underside of the stairs. Eventually, I will install a row of floor to ceiling vertical columns or louvers between floor and ceiling along the open sided of the stairs, but I don't need that to pass inspection. And now it's all about just passing inspection.
This is a common occurence on a job of that scope. Hopefully you can get the project back on track, and get morale up and production moving again soon. The ability to do so separates the men from the boys, in the contracting world. This will just be an uncomfortable hiccup in the work flow.
Your man is driven to keep the job moving, and get it done. Lots could be said about that. Sometimes those guys are the hardest to find! Of course, reeling them in, and managing them, is the GC's responsibility, and where he shows if he's worth his salt or not.
This has been an incredible thread, and your house is an incredible project. Wish you the best with these issues!"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
CaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Thanks for the compliment on my project. The only thing the locals can seem to say is "big".That carpenter is a "bust the job out" type of guy, indeed. He takes a great deal of pride in being able to bust the job out faster and better than anybody else. Very much a production mentality.He's definitely not down for all the nitpicking and time-consuming little details and concerns on this project, the four hour meetings, etc., my fussiness about all the waterproofing details. He was near to outraged when they told him I was planning to check all his windows for leaks with a garden hose. Sacre bleu! Did you ever see that movie that Louis Kahn's son made about his father? There is a segment in the movie where they introduce contractors and the contractors talk about how Kahn would show up at the jobsite and they would spend two hours discussing whether to use a phillips head or a slotted head screw for a certain detail. That is almost what we are like, and it makes the tradesmen crazy.
BTW, did anybody see that story yesterday connecting vinyl flooring with autism in children?>>>>>>>>>...
Where, I missed it?
Here's the link to the vinyl flooring story. We've pretty much eliminated vinyl from this house, except for the little strips around the windows and door frames, the piping and electrical wires.http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/31/2127203&from=rss
Thanks for the link. It appears that this may be a factor, but at this point it seams tenuous!
>So this is not a small one-truck contractor, its a bigger business.AFAIK, there are very few one-truck operations here doing new construction. Maybe renovations. Most builders are just managers and sub out all the work to about 20 or more trades.Carpenters will do framing, sheetrocking and insulation, then install flooring, stairs and prehung doors. I don't believe they build or install the kitchens, and they have nothing to do with baths.In no case would a carpenter deign to do tradeswork beneath him like roofing, siding, plastering, taping, painting, etc. And it's inconceivable for a carpenter to have a plumber's or electricians or egad a HVAC licenss, like so many of y'all do.Although many of the people in this forum routinely do every single trade involved in building a house, all the way from doing the design work to rubbing down the varnish, that is totally inconceivable in Japan.
in the US the HVAC crowd works hard to "elevate" themselves above the other working masses.
Yeah, calling themselves HVAC guys instead of tin knockers.Here, everybody has AC, but 99% of it is mini-split. Builders and architects especially are not accustomed to incorporating ductwork.Since I don't have any 9" duct on hand, I fashioned and installed a section of fake duct out of Coroplast as a placeholder for the plumber to work his drain lines around.Now that I get it in place I realize I've really got a problem at one place even with a mere 9" height. I wonder if I can't switch it to a flat, wide duct with a rectangular section.On the topic of plumbing, this house is unusual in that we are putting in plumbing vents. Actually, the plumber is giving me one vent, on the soil stack, and that one is an AAV. Still, you takes what you gets.I practically had to pound my fist on the table to get the one lousy AAV.
"On the topic of plumbing, this house is unusual in that we are putting in plumbing vents. Actually, the plumber is giving me one vent, on the soil stack, and that one is an AAV. Still, you takes what you gets."
OK, you got me. How do they normally do it?
k
They simply don't put in vents, usually. Don't need no steenkin vents is the answer. Code only requires vents from the fourth story up. How 'bout dat?
Edited 3/3/2009 5:46 am by talkingdog
I'm confused. Do they have p-traps?
Are Japanese sewers so clean they don't stink?
k
If you page back to the pictures of the foundation above, you can see all the separate lines going out of the crawlspace to cleanouts in the yard. Graywater and brown water go out to separate cleanouts, which then connect to the a single run of pipe going to the sewer.There is some sort of trap built into these cleanouts which has a water seal. However, in addition to this there might no other trap or vent in the typical system. Sinks and the like may have a p-trap with cleanout underneath, but more likely they will have an S-trap. Or even worse, the low bugdet installation involves something that looks like vacuum cleaner hose, which goes from sink to the drain pipe. You can install this hose with a good bit of slack and this functions as a trap.bwahahaha, life in the Third World
What's the purpose of separate cleanouts for grey and brown, if the end up in the same sewer?
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Pix to follow, sorry I have been actually working out at the job, so I don't have the energy to get the photos up.>>What is the purpose of the separate cleanouts?Here is where we get into the deep plumbing discussion. First of all, although I play a lawyer on the internet, I am not a lawyer, much less a plumber. So I am talking out my a$$ by saying anything, but I think the mentality is "What is the minimum we can get away with?"I posted this whole story on the Terry Love forum a while back and nobody could really explain the rationale, so I guess we really need a plumbing engineer. What I think is happening is that they figure the only thing you really have to worry about is the brown water line, and since there is a trap on that, the toilet, you are basically covered. On the graywater lines you don't need traps, the reasoning goes. Pretty bogus.Incidentally, this is NOT the way they do it for first-class high rise buildings, which are I believe up to international standards. They even use cast iron waste lines in the big buildings, instead of this lousy PVC (no ABS to be had here).
They are being unreasonable because they are not adhering to the terms of the contract. The fact that you have let them know that it is not just a pro forma clause but one that you expect compliance with makes it worse. I wouldn't want to proceed with any substantial changes in the absence of customer approval (oral or written depending on the circumstances). As Huck said it is for mutual protection.
You are, of course, dealing with a culture and standard practices that are somewhat different from what I am used to.
talkingdog,
I'm sorry, but I don't know. I buy from a door and lock specialty store, not from the manufacturer.
Ron
I think Sugatsune has some of the hardware you are looking for.John
John, Sugatsune has some very slick hardware in their showroom, including a Blumotion-style self-closing hardware (which is Hawa, I think) for $1500 per. They are a little out of my price range. Another maker I have heard of is Shirokuma.
We had the last of the big meetings yesterday, with the roofer, the flashing guy, the siding guy, and the insulation co. rep. So we got all the details on the exterior nailed down. I did stand my ground on the flashing and we agreed on a procedure based on the Build America procedure, over foam. At the sill we have a 6 mil plastic pan flashing (Fukuvi) with built-in back dam. Side and head flashing will be done with a 12 cm width of tape. Of course they were kicking and screaming about having to go with 12 cm.http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy05osti/37583.pdfImportantly they understand that the flashing is not to be caulked under the window, to allow the window to drain (a detail that most installers here do not understand).Here is the illustrated guide to the flashing, Fukuvi Weathertite:http://www.fukuvi.co.jp/product/074.php?We are also using a similar flashing where the parapets meet the walls, and also a boot over the wall penetrations.I have become such a pest for the poor carpenter. He was pissed that I followed up on the overdriven nails, but next, I asked the architect to remind them to use a roller on all the tape and to securely affix the tape and smooth out all wrinkles. Hehehe. Apparently a roller is something they have never heard of. (I did this while hiding behind the architects, both of them, who were cowering themselves, because the carpenter tends to go ballistic when things do not go his way).Of course the carpenters do not have their own rollers, so I am lending them my old veneer roller from my workshop. Sheesh. They should be thanking me for showing them the way up to the next level!
Edited 2/4/2009 8:10 pm by talkingdog
Jeez. Is Japan full of carpenters looking for work, or not?
The construction business is a little slow, but the banks are still lending money as usual so building goes on at a sluggish pace. Difference from America is that there is zero excess inventory in new detached housing (tons of condos, though).I expect however, that most of the projects being built right now have been in planning for years, like mine, and that the number of new projects entering the pipeline has drastically decreased. Very tough times coming down the road for these guys.
Just out of curiosity, are the prices you mention in USD?Some of the prices you've thrown out there don't just seem expensive, they seem exorbitant. Maybe I'm just not appreciating the high end nature of some of the things you are specifying, but I remember you mentioning $80 for a bucket of joint compound.That just caught my attention.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I just got back from the jobsite, where I delivered a hand roller to the carpenters, who apparently think that finger pressure is enough to properly adhere tape. Next week, after the windows go in, I am going to show up at the jobsite with my garden hose and nozzle, and pressure test their installation for leaks.As for prices....Compared to what all you elite carpenters at Breaktime build, there is nothing high end about this house, except perhaps a few Marvin metal clad windows. No high end materials or high end hardware, etc. Other than the polyiso on the exterior, the frame and building envelope are even mid-to-low-end, although I prefer to call it "frugal." I think that building products are generally quite a bit more expensive, and some things, as you point out, like the joint compound, are priced inexplicably high as to the list price.For example: polyiso is $30 for a 3x6 2 inch board, CDX is $9 for a 3x6 7/16 board, concrete is $90 per yard, fibercement panel is $24 for 3x6 at 9/16 inch, PEX is $2 l.f., 50 watt halogen bulbs are $20 -- these are twice or three times what you would pay there.As to labor costs, a mechanic gets somewhere between $200 and $300 per day, and helpers and apprentices something over $100. Contracting costs get inflated by the practice of sub-sub-sub contracting out jobs. Each sub in the chain takes 15%, so the guy at the bottom is sorely pinched, which is the case with the poor carpenter on my job. OTOH this is all paid for by cheap money. The construction loan is priced at 2.475% and the actual mortgage should be around 2.75.
Show homes. I think on Rokko Island.
How did that get in there !
Edited 1/21/2009 2:02 am by 1muff2muff
Unless I erred in my calculations, that lumber price works out to about $1.18/BF for imported lumber. not bad for such good stuff I suppose
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
As for the lumber prices, I can usually find 8' 2x4s at the local store for $3.50. Not too bad.What is high is the price of CVG Douglas fir, at $3000 m3. I am contemplating using this stuff to make the doors, but that will make the basic lumber cost per door $200. Ouch.My lumber guy has a whole bunch of stationary machines out in the middle of his shop floor, and I can use them freely, so what I may do is use his monster bandsaw to resaw the CVG stuff down into 1/8" veneers and glue them onto fingerjointed lumber cores for my door stiles.That big bandsaw cuts like there's no tomorrow.
I'll be watching this thread with interest.
Thanks.
Nice house talkingdog. I'm building one for myself on the opposite shore of the pacific. The horizontal elements in your design are interesting. I keep thinking I'd like to do something along those lines for the second story of my place. What material are you using for that? I've been imagining aluminum. Tom
Are you referring to the woody looking part? That is a screen
that is attached curtain-wall fashion about 10 inches out from
the actual wall. Material is second growth redwood slats set on
an angle to function as louvers. That's the concept anyway, and
we will see how it works out. This is a variation on a very typical Japanese architectural element, both past and present. Most such slats are placed vertically. There are some very nice aluminum products on the market, which, although sortof pricey, are very effective at working with light to provide
a "blind" behind which inhabitants can have privacy while being able to see out. Very useful in dense urban environment where you want to have a deck or outdoor garden with some privacy but don't want to build a high concrete wall.Another one, which is very cost effective, is expanded metal. You cannot see in from the lighted side.
Actually, I'm thinking of using horizontal tubing, say 4" o.c., around the lower 3/4 of the second story for design purposes only. I'll do it custom. I'm caught in the urban/wildlands interface zone that got really annoying after the socal fires a few years back. So, I'm extremely limited as to materials I can work with and I'll be damned if I'll build a stucco box. Imagine having to build a house designed by the folks at CDF. Ridiculous.
I've seen evidence of some good carpenters over there in Japan so I'm guessing they'll get the redwood on straight and true. Not too many folks in this country I'd trust to get that detail right. It'll take some doing. I expect it will cost some too.
>>I've seen evidence of some good carpenters over there in JapanThe older generation are magicians -- the younger ones, well, like elsewhere, take their chopsaws away and they're nothin.'As for the wooden screen, I myself am going to do it. Or rather, I am going to wait until the architect who designed it shows up for his photo op, then I am going to give him an impact driver and say "Let's get busy on that screen." heeheehee
View Image
Inspector (white helmet) arrived a little early, or the foundation guys were a little late, owing to the complexity of the job. So the inspection did not pass the first time. So he will come back the next day, and then the pour will be on the day after that.
Interesting point in this is that this particular private sector inspection outfit, which spends an enormous amount on advertizing, even on TV, was preceded by a reputation for perfunctory inspections of the five minute variety.
But not so in this case. The guy was on his haunches squatting out in the middle of rebar measuring and marking stuff on his paperwork. This went on for over an hour and a half before he finally called it a day without issuing a pass.
Architects, who were both on site, said that this was something new, since this past October, when the housing quality protection law was ratcheted up from a voluntary warranty system to a compulsory insurance system. So there will be no more five minute inspections, and this is a good thing, but it will definitely make things harder for me at the end of the job.
Edited 12/4/2008 4:26 am by talkingdog
Ok, explain what we're looking at. Is the grey thing in front of you form boards for a concrete pour? What are thge rebar cages running away from you? And the white panels behind you .. looks like crowd control barricades. "Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
The gray things are metal forms, and the white thing behind that is the contractor's barrier fence. In the foreground is the rebar for the slab, with stuff sticking up in places for the stemwalls, which will be formed up after they pour the slab.
Edited 12/4/2008 7:46 pm by talkingdog
Do you put release oil on the forms before pouring?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Yeah, they will oil the forms. I think you can see the sheen of oil residue on the forms in the photo.The concrete work will come out looking very nice. In the case of wood forms, which is what they use on bigger projects, a type of plywood with yellow epoxy paint is used (a little chunk of it in photo above) and this is how architects like Tadao Ando get that really beautiful looking concrete (also, they vibrate the high end stuff by hand with pieces of bamboo).
View Image
Here's another image of the formwork, at the odd-angled corner mentioned in the first post above, and the architect is standing there saying, "Hey guys don't forget to put a fill strip here in the gap in this corner."
Edited 12/4/2008 7:53 pm by talkingdog
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The slab is poured, and the whiteboard in the background shows the conditions, etc. I am a little unhappy about the temperature (temperature of batch 15 deg. C, air temp 9 deg. C, Inspector assured me everything was fine), and the fact that we've had two nights that went down to freezing since the concrete was poured. I am such an idiot! Should have stomped my feet and insisted they wait until Monday, when it will be a bit warmer. Anyway for the next week it should warm up, so hopefully that will help with the curing and the damage won't be so bad.
This testing of the first three batches of concrete was performed by or on behalf of JIO, the external inspection outfit. I sure hope that slab passes their hardness test when the time comes.
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Edited 12/7/2008 3:16 am by talkingdog
I sure hope that slab passes their hardness test when the time comes.
What is the alternative? Did you cover the slab with anything during the freeze? Any signs of spalling?
Thanks for this thread BTW, I love it.View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product†– Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
Well, I asked about putting blankets on the pour but the architect said it wasn't necessary. I dunno. I should have put a gun to his head, I guess.
Bit late to this, but enjoying it ......
What is the paint pot like thing.....slump cones, cylinders I get, but that one I don't.....
That pot is a pressure tester, to determine the amount of air included in the mix. The other tests were for salt content and temperature.
Forms are off, and utilities are installed. Now we are ready to install the foam board at the perimeter of the slab (inside) and then the mudsill, which will finish up the year.
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Corner at MBR with hold-down
View Image
Insulated brass headers resting on slab
View Image
Razor sharp edge of leveler cement has been nicely chamfered
View Image
Head of leveler screw is dead flush with surface
Edited 12/21/2008 8:41 pm by talkingdog
Just want to say thanks for the pictures - I've been following along since the beginning. Very interesting. -BK
Very clean looking project - keep up with the photos, we're enjoying this! BTW, if you don't mind telling us (or in case I missed it) how did you come to be interested in doing all this construction work?"...craftsmanship is first & foremost an expression of the human spirit." - P. Korn
bakersfieldremodel.com
Do you want my long story or the short one?In short, I used to work in the building trades, did some contracting in NYC back in the day. Now I only do it for fun, to relieve stress from my day job. Most of the field construction work I have ever done was either on high rises or on existing masonry rowhouses, using metal stud. So, this is about the first time that I am involved in stick-framed new construction.
ROFL
Almost a month has passed since we just barely passed inspection. Registration of the house is done, and the bank business is finished. Electricity has been turned on but not dialed in, and the plumbing is on and awaiting the city inspection.
It took me two weeks of backbreaking trench shoveling but the storm sewer work is done. Now I have a sore back.
After much deliberation we decided not to go with wooden framing under the bathtub as you would do in the States and instead brought in the concrete guy to build up a concrete and mud base under the tile. So the current status is that we have the base pour done, and now I have laid out some RFH tubing and we are going to pour another two inch layer then do the mud base for the Kerdi and tile.
I got the two grating drains installed, one under the showerhead in the customary Japanese fashion, and one in front of the very very barrier free door, to prevent people splashing water out of the wet room (since there is no curb). Actually, I figured that this would not be enough, so I went ahead and tiled the changing room, so any water that gets out is going to end up on tile, not flooring.
Nice to see that all the photos in this Photo Gallery thread are gone. Lotta labor went into embedding all those photos, guys.
Moving on. I am now undergoing therapy for my bad back, and it's getting better.
Better or not, I have stuff I have to do before Dec. 20th, when we contractually have to be moved in.
Bath and kitchen are not done yet. I have to finish installing the kitchen this week then do the bath next. Lotta work involved in both. Fortunately, the IKEA cabinet assembly is mostly done, and we are all ready to install the bathtub.
I'm hopeful the photos will
I'm hopeful the photos will reappear some time soon.
Good luck with your deadline.
I think I will just shrug and keep going. Such is the nature of the web that this stuff is all just so much blowing sand.
I sm framing out soffits this week. Wish I could get metal stud here like the stuff we had back home. There is some sort of metal framing stock, but I cannot figure out how to use it, as the gauge is heavier, can't find zip screws, etc.