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I am having a new home built this Spring. Builders often need to be price competitive and sometimes use less expensive products than they use on their own home. If it was your house, what are some areas often skimped on that would be worth paying for the upgrade in price?
Some Examples:
Sub floor
Foundation
Roof
Electrical
I’m even talking about the small stuff. The things I won’t think about until six months after I’ve moved in. Your advise is appreciated.
Replies
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Well, you may want to price out what it would cost to upgrade compared to replacing. Also, some builders will permit a "delete" option and you just do your own.
Example: in our current home it was cheaper to take the builder's furnace and replace it than to take his upgrade. We wanted to upgrade our plumbing; however, he wanted to charge extra to install ours (i.e. and not supply his own); and, could not leave them out because of occupancy permits - we paid to have ours installed. Tile floors were much cheaper when he did them, wood floors were much better, and not more expensive, when we had him leave the floor bare and we installed our own.
*You mentioned roof - if you want a Marley (or similar), then you have to have the roof framing built for it. Anything else, compare costs. Electrical - electical what ? Foundation - get the insulated kind, and you only get one chance to do it.
*Sub floor- 3/4" TG ply glued/screwed over TJI'sFoundation - 10" reinforced & pouredRoof -5/8ths sheathing, Grace or equivalent, roofer's select, wide drips, seamless gutters, a good 40-year that will give you 20. Soffit to shingle vent II at ridge. Overhangs not less thatn 18". Dammit!Electrical -200A, 12 ga throughout.Others, briefly?*Proper footing/slab drainage*Radon tubes, if warranted. Just the tubes for now, worry about evacuation later.*Every basement should at have a sealed can for a sump pump buried in the slab. A whole $40. If needed, drop in pump and connect tubing later.*Cells over FG*Radiant floor heat*I hate w2w carpet...hardwood throughout*Cast Iron waste pipes where noise is an issue. No compromise!*If studs 24" oc, 5/8ths gypsum board on exterior walls*Central vac*More elec outlets then you think*Marvin SDL woodies*No vinyl siding*Tight envelope...up to you and the builder*Take pics of every wall after mechanicals are in and before wallboard goes up*Skim coat plaster (shaddup, Mike)You can upgrade appliances (w proper cabinet allowances) and things like intricate trim later. Concentrate now on what gets buried in the walls and the big stuff that's not easily changed down the road.I stumbles upon this site when doing an internet search...enough info to make you think about various fields, though I disagree with many items.Lots of regional flavor as well...depends on where you're building.
*Around here everyone uses pretty much the same basic components. Watch for stud spacing (24" instead of 16") and research your extra's. Read the specs.Most builders who lowball a job do so by cutting their allowances for carpet, fixtures, etc.If you need an upgrade from the norm expect to pay for it, but watch the gouge, this is where a lot of guys make their money.
*5/8 roof sheathing instead of 1/2"I think plywood is better than osb but I understand that some actually believe osb is better.You may want to have a third party do some sort of foundation drainage system (thier than just drain pipe and gravel) to keep your basement dry.Spend money on windows. Few things are more annoying year after year than cheap windows.
*Build a smaller houseSimplify the roof construction to limit dormers,valleys and bizzare roof intersections8/12 roof pitchnice roof overhangsIcegaurd roof edges and all roof intersections and obstructions. Install it properly so that it prevents the leak rather than simply changeing the location of the damage.If every effort fails to eliminate valleys,install icegaurd AND W valley flashing.Extra wide drip edgeSeamless gutters with no miters,installed with ode hidden hangers2X fasciaI recently worked on a roof deck with 5/8" decking---not needed but very solid.A good ,functioning soffit and ridge vent system using a cap-over ridge vent.A real masonry chimney located at the end of the ridgeline.Pay extra to have it flashed properly with inset counter flashing.the # 1 thing I would definitely ,definitely do is use a 40 year shingle installed with a 6 nail high wind area placement(regaurdless of actuall winds).the 40 year shingles will cost very little extra and will save you thousands down the road. when you factor in inflation they will end up saving you tens of thousands.a high income spouse to pay for it.
*Doug, I prefer 4" metal boxes, with mud rings for electrical. It allows you to add another outlet in a given location later, with a minimum of effort.Run 12/3 from the first outlet in a bedroom/family room to all down stream outlets. 12/2 from the first outlet up to a switch. This will allow you to have a switched outlets anywhere in the room, for table lamps etc. By using the 12/3 you can decide at a later date what to switch.Wire the whole house for communications with Cat 5 cable and RG-6. All of these should be home-run back to a communication board, in a closest, garage, basement etc. You could also run all of the comm cabling through conduit, that way you could upgrade it at a later date.Plan for storage, you never have enough. Having a pantry off of the kitchen may allow you to have less cabinets in the kitchen. Kitchen cabinets with drawers instead of doors, allow you to easily use the full depth of the cabinet. Separate task lighting in the kitchen.9 or 10 foot ceilings in the public rooms, make small rooms feel larger. Shorter ceilings in the bedrooms feel cozier. Plan for upgrade in the future. Do you like wine, plan an area for a wine cellar, even if you don't build it now. Sauna, jacuzzi ?Outdoor speakers on the deck, switched outlets in the soffits for x-mas lights, let your imagination run.Build smaller with better quality materials, IMHO this is much better that building large with cheap. If you can't afford to build the house you would like now, design it to be built in 2 stages.Scott
*i design it to be built in 2 stagesThis is an old technique that I think has been generally forgotten. That's why there are half capes and other tricks done. Saw an old (1700's) house At Strawberrybank, Portsmouth, NH, where the removal of siding/sheathing at the back of the house revealed a fireplace and framing for doors to go into the futur rooms.
*"Simplify the roof construction to limit dormers,valleys and bizzare roof intersections" BINGO!Friends in town had a house built two years ago...the most bizarre roof lines you could ever imagine. Hips, gables, valleys, dormers...many decorative only, no real function whatsoever.Met the architect during construction. Spouted some comment that the busier the roofline, the happier the client.Until it starts leaking...which their roof already has.
*If you will be using the basement for anything other than storage - go with a 9' (preferably poured) height.I would do whatever it takes to use nothing but 36" doors throughout. It will usually require widening hallways and stairwells, but once you live with it, everybody's 30" doors and 36" hallways will feel cramped.Terry
*I just wanted to thank everyone for the great advise.Now I have a list for my builder.
*Have hurricane ties on framing. Tornados here have a bit harder time ripping house to shreads if house has hurricane ties and proper roof bracing. Also make sure roof is nailed down very tight to rafters. This is a real cheap upgrade that may save a life.
*Don't skimp on your cabinetry. We agonized over kitchen cabinets, and finally went with what we really wanted, reasoning that we would likely never replace them. Went about 30% over budget on them, but I smile every time I walk into the kitchen. Nothing prettier IMO than natural cherry allowed to age a bit and darken.Plumbing fixtures. Much better to pay for good stuff now than cheap now and what you REALLY wanted later. Much easier to put in the big kohler sink she wants now, instead of after it's tiled in......
*We're building a custom home. Found a great stock plan, just what we wanted with no changes. Specs are great, including all brick, brick fireplace and chimney, 5/8" decking and 3/4" T&G flooring. We added Pella Proline windows, toilets with glazed throats (lesson learned), acrylic bath fixtures (in lieu of fiberglass), ceramic tile in baths and hardwood flooring in all main areas. We chose a small plan in order to get quality. We let five (5) builders bid the project. The bank appraisal came in at $40,000 less than the cost of the lot and house, because of the square footage. People don't find these features in the typical 1,700 sf house, the appraiser said. We just sold our six year old house in which everything needed to be replaced (cheap, cheap, cheap). I don't want another cheap house. The bank will only loan on the cost to build a cheap 1,700sf house. How can the appraiser even compare the two. Any suggestions?
*Pella prolines...just who would spec these cheap pieces of shit into a house. They are the things you want to make sure they don't use. How about a nice Marvin or Hurd, if it's a budget item go Anderson or Caradco. Prolines....Home Cheapo specials, why not a not a nice Wenco JX7 or LP piece of trash? All brick, (good choice) and cheap windows. Nice and hard to replace when you figure out the mistake you made. Keith C.
*As a cabinetmaker (my living comes from putting in the bright shiny stuff), and owner of a house where the builders went cheap on a lot of things....I say, when you are in the process of putting it up, go first class on a lot of the stuff you don't see....do whatever you have to so the floors don't bounce and squeak....first class plumbing and electrical.....ventilation and insulation...go for a perfect dry basement (can you tell the things I'm stuggling with? cheap bastards). You can redo the cabinets down the road when you've paid part of it off....make the bones as solid and durable as you can possibly afford from the start. Whenever I start into anything in this house, I end up wanting to strip the whole thing back to studs, and there are some things, like overspanned floors, I'm not sure I'll ever be happy with. Put the money into good bones. Everythng else can be a work in progress.
*Keith be nice! Consumer Reports rated Pella Prolines a best buy recently, just behind Marvin and ahead of Anderson. Not that consumer reports knows everything. I've never used them myself, but I hardly think they qualify as cheap pieces of shit. You have had some bad experiences with them?jim
*The bank's appraiser is probably figuring on what the house would sell for if you default. Maybe contacting other appraisers would help. The bank is only interested in protecting themselves.
*Nancy,As a custom builder I have been frustated many times by a low appraisal and have even abandoned projects because of them.An appraisal works like this.He has three columns Yours and 2 comparables.He HAS to find similar houses sold within the past few weeks CLOSE to your location. He then fills in the blanks making adjustments for the discrepancies as he goes along. Adjusting the price up & down for each item. He has never been inside the other 2 house so it is all guess work. If comparable houses have 10 sqft of oak and you have a 1000ft a small adjustment is made but not much. Again for Bath fixtures. He then arrives at a price which is basically the price for the house next door.So if your house is made of Gold bricks it will only appraise the same as a similar house built of wood.There is no way around this you may be able to talk him into a slightly higher appraisal if the bank co operates but I would doubt it. The bank will probably not even allow you to down grade at this stage to try and come in at the appraisal amount.The only way around I have found is to pay the $40,000 up front to the bank.Sorry to sound so negative; banks don't like anything different.If you are $40,000 over on a 1700sqft house it sounds like you are way OVER SPEC'D for the neighbourhood and the size of home.Ron.
*Ron brings up some very important points. Doug,Is this a "dream house" that your going to be spending 10+ years in? And where is the house to be located, in a sub or private land somewhere?These issues are sometimes the determining factor of which upgrades make the most sense.There are many unseen building components which will perform much better than the standard "builder grade" materials, but does it make sense to upgrade if you'll be in the house five years, and most likely never be able to appreciate the upgrades you've made? The next buyers will appreciate the gift.What will your builder offer in terms of upgrades?There are two many missing factors to consider in answering your question.
*Doug,My advice list as follows:9' basement - poured if you can afford it 1ft knee wall if notTGI'sAdvantech Subfloor Zoned HVAC - if over 2500sfCast iron drains in noise areasFlex gas lines with manifold systemPlenty of outlets - quads where electronics might beAll bedroom lights wired 14/3 for future fansPhone jacks everywhere you might want themCable outlets everywhere you might want themPhone jacks near Cable for PPV and sateliteAll phones and cable home runsWalls 16" OCJoists 16" even with TGIMarvin, Hurd or Anderson windowsAbsolutely cut the basement floorIf you're doing showers, min. 48x366' tubs if you're tallSump pump pit3/4 bath rough-in in basementDaylight windows in basement if possible if not at least egress90%+ furnace5/8 roof sheathingCement board siding - Hardie-PlankMetal soffitt and fasciaEveryones opinion on roof designI wouldn't care about floors so much, unless I wanted wood, then 3/4 finished on site wood...You can always change vinyl,tile and carpet.The list could go on but I'll stop for now
*I am sorry, but the words, "We're building a custom home" and "We found a great stock plan..." just don't go together.
*Homebldr - Your upgrades are mostly great, except for one - Hurd Windows. Andersen and Marvin - fine, but giving out advice to use this product is just plain wrong. Let me tell you my experience: I bought $13K worth of these pieces of crap for a new high end custom house, I noticed there was a gap between some of the aluminum cladding - where they seal it with a gasket but didn't think much of it - until the first rain came with a little wind. Rain poured in through these gaps - 2/3 of the windows leak including the PICTURE WINDOWS. Even the slider door leaked! It doesnt even need wind. Water just hits the glass, runs down to the aluminum stile, and goes right through the frame! Unbelievable!. Despite my efforts, the only thing Hurd gave me was 2 tubes of caulk and some sales literature for their storm windows. I was speechless. I am attempting to work this out with their distrubutor, but so far no luck. They don't honor their warranty and that's the single biggest thing with a major item like windows.See my other posts on this topic from earlier this year.
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I am having a new home built this Spring. Builders often need to be price competitive and sometimes use less expensive products than they use on their own home. If it was your house, what are some areas often skimped on that would be worth paying for the upgrade in price?
Some Examples:
Sub floor
Foundation
Roof
Electrical
I'm even talking about the small stuff. The things I won't think about until six months after I've moved in. Your advise is appreciated.