Gents,
I’m going to be building some floor to ceiling bookcases and am looking for some design input, ideas and reference materials.
Thanks
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Replies
Who are you? What is your occupation? Are you building plain jane bookkcases,
or are you building something fancy creative? There are bookcase designs from
A to Z. What are you looking to do?
Larry
Hi,
Definitely not plain jane. Looking for simple but elegeant.
jarhead built some couple weeks ago.
"simple but elegeant."LOL, I hate that phrase. What does it mean?I hear "Cheap but Fancy"or "Fast but Impressive"Reminds me of the buddy who claimed he'd found a "Classy Whore"sorry, don't mean to pick on you but that phrase just sets meoff and leaves my mind swirling with all the possible meanings...Meanwhile, here's my advice - you need to keep in mind the styles of trim existing in the house not to make a perfect copy but to avoid contrast that make one or the other look ugly ( like those two contrasting words)
Then you need to sketch out your basic dimensions, Allowing for base at bottom and entablature at top lets you have room to adjust for off-level floors or ceiling and adds some class at the same time.Then do a detail drawing and let it sitr overnight - look again later to proofread and think method of assembly over to modify things before you start.Another question - when you say built in, do you mean behind the wall? If so, is this a load bearing wall that would require a header?
If truley built-in like that, can you post a photo of the space into which it will be built?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I see no signs of the Its Wicked Good "MOXIE" since 1884..humphhhhh...
PO "I dunno guys. Methinks some people have way too much extra time on their hands". Jer
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"simple but elegeant."
LOL, I hate that phrase. What does it mean?
I hear "Cheap but Fancy"
or "Fast but Impressive"
Reminds me of the buddy who claimed he'd found a "Classy Whore"
Yea, kind of like Jumbo Shrimp, and perhaps Honest Lawyer.
Yea, kind of like Jumbo Shrimp, and perhaps Honest Lawyer.
Or smart Texan.
Smart Texan, yea.
I am from Tennessee.
I tell these boys down here that if it weren't for Davy Crocket's Tennessee boys with their longrifles, weakening Santa Annas army so they could whip em at San Jacinto, they would all be speaking spanish, eating lots of refiored beans and taking siestas at 2:00 PM. All in fun.
I read about the Alamo, the book said 80 Alamo fighters killed 1600 of Santa Antas army and wounded 2500 more so that they could not travel with the army. The Mexican soilers called the long rifle men "wild eyed devils". The book went on the say that some of the Mexican army set up at points they thought were "out of range" only to see their commrades fall next to them after being shot.
Lawyers? Seems that God challenged the Devil, telling him he took one of his own to Hell and God wanted him back. God threatened the Devil, telling him he was going to get a lawyer. THe devil just laughed, knowing that God did not have any lawyers.
"Meanwhile, here's my advice - you need to keep in mind the styles of trim existing in the house not to make a perfect copy but to avoid contrast that make one or the other look ugly ( like those two contrasting words) "
very good advice.
too many times people want crown mouldings in a house that it doesn't fit in, or whatever. this is another case where you want it to blend in or compliment the other.
in some cases you get the domino affect.....hey looks we need to redo the trim thru out.
on another note. I'm with ya on the oxy-moron. however, there has to be a term to describe some stuff.
I get that term all the time with my house. it has a craftsman flavour to it. 7"base with no shoe, 3 1/2" wide flat casing with head casings extending 1/2" either side. not much different from some pictures I've seen from some of your work in the past. but people don't know how to describe it. my realtor described it as "elegant but not ostentatious" but most people use that exact term " it's simply yet elegant"
I'm sure there has to be a better term. I'm all ears, as I don't' even know how to describe my house to people who don't even know what a craftsman or arts and crafts home is. I say it has flat trim, and I get the puzzled " big deal" look, and I'm like you have to see it to appreciate it I guess.
PS nice pics
Terms like Craftsman, Greek, or Colonial go a long ways towards stating something like that if both parties have a common terminology, other wise, "Plain without looking too clunky" works for some ...LOLOther than that, a pitcher book halps
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Quote: "my realtor described it as 'elegant but not ostentatious' but most people use that exact term "it's simply yet elegant"'
Here in New England things of quality can sometimes be referred to as being:
"Wicked Pissah"
I hear "Cheap but Fancy"
or "Fast but Impressive"
Wrong on both accounts. I think you are listening but you are not hearing.
I appreciate and love good quality work and truly appreciate the craftsman that produce such work .
Shaker style, dovetails, raised panels, mortise & tenon, Lie-Nielson tools - These things come to mind when I say "simple but elegant". A well made piece of furniture or tool at first glance can look "simple" but on closer examination one can appreciate the time, effort, craftmanship, and care that is placed in creating these items, they become "elegant".
But I digress.
The unit will actually be built out from the wall. I plan on incorporating the existing base molding in the design, crown moulding at the top. Just looking for some ideas and pics so I don't end up with anything 'ostentacious'(just kidding) .
Nice work !
I'm building some right now, 10' long to ceiling ( 8'). really if you know assembly technics your best bet is to find pics of style you want in mags. FHB has the odd nice book case show up in it's pages. even been a few good articles on constructing them. do a search in the article section. i'd refer them to you but i'd have to rumage for them 1st.
find some pics,in mags and books on the local mag rack and book store , won't take you long to find some good stuff. ( I think Taunton even has one of there books specically for built ins.) then draw it out, and plan your assembly.
Taunton does have a book called "Built In Furniture" Lots of great ideas in that book.
To second someone else's sentiment, check the trim and other woodwork in the room and see if you want to match or compliment it. How can you tie in the floor trim or crown molding (if there is any)? Do you want it painted or stained? “The richest genius, like the most fertile soil, when uncultivated, shoots up into the rankest weeds..” – Hume
tauton has some great books, and their building instructions ( which are mostly article based) far surpasses most other publications in reader friendliness, as well as substance.
I also totally agree with the matching the trim sentiment. not everyone is good at drawing a design, if they can find a picture of something that works with what hey have it will be a good start.
I prefer an odd number of units. A wide central unit flanked by two narrower units, for example.
They can be the same depth or the sides can be deeper or more shallow than the central. Think breakfront.
I typically use birch plywoood for paint grade carcasses and poplar for the face frame. Keep an order to the sizes of the various pieces of face frame so the unit looks structurally balanced from floor to ceiling.
I personally prefer that the edges of the face frame stiles are flush with the inside walls of the cabinet carcasses. This makes it easy to slide books off the shelves without books being caught or partially hidden behind the face frame stiles.
That normally means building the boxes individually, then using a psacer between the adacent boxes, then covering the entire front edge (3/4" ply + 1/2" spacer + 3/4" ply) with a 2" wide stile, for example.
I despise those adjustable shelf standards that get dadoed into the sides of the carcasses. I prefer to use sleeve and pin inserts to support the shelves.
Depending on the scale of thses units, some shelves can be fixed to provide structure to the unit, while others can be adjustable. Or all fixed, or all adjustable. Depends.
An alternative would be to first construct a base unit, full width, and maybe 18" deep. This unit could have doors on it for storage underneath. On top of that base unit build your three bookshelf boxes, say 11-12" deep.
Lot of variables, but as others have mentioned, have it mesh with the existing style of the house.
Mongo, your list of design considerations is excellent! I especially appreciate this point:
"I personally prefer that the edges of the face frame stiles are flush with the inside walls of the cabinet carcasses. This makes it easy to slide books off the shelves without books being caught or partially hidden behind the face frame stiles."
In 19th-century built-in bookcases, I've seen the face frame stiles installed to expose the edge of the inside cabinet wall as a narrow reveal. That gives a nice shadow line, but probably works best with all solid wood construction and fixed shelves.
Allen
I've never seen that detail, but it'll go into the hip pocket of future design ideas.
Thanks!
These came out nice.
The pic is base cabinets with shelves above on side and entertainment center on the other with custom fireplace detail in the center.
The CAD drawings are of a bookcase in a hall, and a twin sided rolling chest in a MBR closet.
The bookcase and rolling chest is built and looks great.
Clients have been opting for this rolling closet unit. When they want the unit we upgrade the closet floor to ceramic tile or wood. Most MBR closets are off the MBA so it works well....same tile. If the CLO is off the MBR we can do wood floor in the MBR and CLO....all so the chest will roll. So, aside from the joy of building, the suggestion of the chest results in additional upgrades.
I love to design these things and then see them built. I love to build cabinets, but not much time when running a custom home design / build business. We have two shops with nice equipment that just sits and gather dust and left over job materials most of the time.
It is also nice to see younger trim / cabinet carpenter get excited about one of my designs , add their ideas and create beautiful work.
Ah, the joy of building. I'd do it for free if I could pay my bills. It is nice to do what you love and love what you do.
Edited 2/3/2007 10:09 am ET by txlandlord
Edited 2/3/2007 10:11 am ET by txlandlord
nice...what kind og cad program is that. is somehting like that easy to learn to use?
tx designs in Softplan, but that is a simple PDF document which is a great way to transmit drawings digitally for sharing. Most CAD programs can now print to PDF.PDF stands for portable document format I think. It originates from Adobe, and is similar to a Jpeg photo of a document so text and drawiongs are somewhat protected from alteration - good for copywrite protection and legal documentation.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Softplan now has Softpplan review. Users pay about $400.00, and clients can download at http://www.softplan.com FREE. It enables them to view, mark and make notes for revison.
I do not have it now, but have more design work lately and I have submitted a design proposal for an apartment complex and retail center. I may buy Review for the project and future.
Several pool companies have asked me to design pool houses and fancy Summer Kitchens. We designed one, and the pool company was so impressed that they had us build the $159,000.00 project If the apartment deal goes thru, I will have signed on $18,050.00 in design contracts in the last two months. Buying and learning an expensive CAD program pays for itself. I am getting better and figure I would lilke to continue design work as I get older and slow down. My commute to the office is 22 steps across my backporch.
I love it. It is good that I have a good construction manager to handle the build work. He is just starting to learn SP. He has SP V10, and we will get him V13 when he demonstrates some degree of knowledge with SP V10. V10 to V13 is like going from an old pickup to a Porsche.
I downloaded Cute PDF, a free download, no popups and loads as a printer. It is one of PC Worlds top recommeded downloads. It works well. Zoom featues of pdf make it good for sending and receiving drawings. In may cases I prepare a pdf booklet, with plans, specs, pictures, etc. of a project. compile everything in a word doc and print to the pdf printer. It comes out in a booklet.
Edited 2/3/2007 12:00 pm ET by txlandlord
It is Softplan, also used by Piffin and Bosshog. I think Boss has SP Lite, a less expensive version that has good capabilities. Upgrade to full version is avaliable.
The work does not effectively represent Sps capacity as it is only a drawing done with lines.
Softplan is expensive and has a long learning curve, but once learned it is very professional and will pay for itself. I have been an SP user since 1997.
Attached is a floor plan done in SP.
It also has awesome rendering capabilities, both interior and exterior.
I haven't posted on here in a while but I just want to say I LOVE THIS SITE. I forgot how useful and brilliant it is. Keep up the good work guys.
Hey, if we're showing are latest work, I thought I would join in.“The richest genius, like the most fertile soil, when uncultivated, shoots up into the rankest weeds..” – Hume
I like those, especially the beaded around the window.But why no hearth at that first fireplace? Is it an electric immitation only?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
are builtin bookcase classified as 70"s? Are people building them or telling down? Does alot of books classifly as clutter? It seem like or the flip and design show are removing the bookcases..
BB,
I don't know the answers to a lot of those questions. Truth be told, I'm not certain what some of the questions are, but I'll say this - in the fancy places where I work ( above the realm of flip it TV shows) a well appointed library ( a bigger room than Andy C's 'library' is) is a standard feature as important to live and comfort as is a kitchen or a bedroom. There is a book you could probably pick up at a public library called "Living With books" that is a sort of coffee table book with oodles of pictures of bookcases of all kinds, both built in and open shelves added on. I don't suppose that book would have been worth printing for the publisher if that lifestyle were falling by the wayside.I do suppose there are people for whom a computer niche and TV is far moreimportant than a space for bookshelves.
I remember once visiting a family who had a whole wall in the den/family room ( whatever you want to call it...) about 14' long was bookshelves flanking a small fireplace similar to what some have posted here. The setup was beautifully done!The shelves had various things on them and about seven books lined up on one lonely shelf. The rest was videos and knick nacks. I wondered out lous where they kept their books - not unpacked yet????They told me I was looking at the total of their library!
I felt sorry for them. There is such a world to be had and so much knowledge to be gained by openning the cover of........Maybe this old bibliophile is boring you.
Short version is that many people love books and will give them a good home.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
well, I like books, I got alot of books, my favorite are old engineering books around 1910. But all my friends are like " You need to throw the book away" So I wonder if bookcases are in or out..
I like those, especially the beaded around the window.
But why no hearth at that first fireplace? Is it an electric immitation only?
Thanx. I agree too, a hearth would be nice. Maybe a future project. Customer had to weigh need for tv stand and storage vs. cost. “The richest genius, like the most fertile soil, when uncultivated, shoots up into the rankest weeds..” – Hume
More than just "nice"It is code required for fireplaces.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
More than just "nice"
It is code required for fireplaces.
You're right, my bad. When you said hearth, I heard mantel. This is a fake, gas fireplace. It better be up to code, the entire townhouse subdivision is full of the same thing.
“The richest genius, like the most fertile soil, when uncultivated, shoots up into the rankest weeds..” – Hume
Edited 2/4/2007 12:51 pm by JMadson
I C
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
LOL, i like the bead board work!Semper Fi
"To be young and a conservative, you have no heart"
"To be old and a liberal, you have no mind"
Winston Churchill
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985
Nice work.
Is that Bead board panelling or the real thing?
Is that Bead board panelling or the real thing?
I'm guessing the answer to that question lies somewhere in the middle. It's not from 4x8 sheets of paneling and it's not real bead board. It's the white, mdf planks of bead board from Home Cheapo. It's easy to work with and it takes paint well. “The richest genius, like the most fertile soil, when uncultivated, shoots up into the rankest weeds..” – Hume
Looks like the real thing!
You don't want the bookcases to go right to the floor. You will want them to have some kind of base, usually the same height as the baseboard in the rest of the room.
Stain grade or paint grade?
Show us pics of the space.
Consider a hybrid like this.
Not sure exactly what you are looking for, here is one I built recently. These are on a frame or toe kick. You can do it on the floor. These are easy to build, I use the wall as the back to the unit. I have also built these where the middle section projects out or proud of the outside shelves.
Semper Fi
"To be young and a conservative, you have no heart"
"To be old and a liberal, you have no mind"
Winston Churchill
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985
Very nice work
Norm shows how to build a set on an episode of The New Yankee Workshop, called The Library System. The plans and video are available for purchase at his website, or you might find the video at a library.
Hi,
Thanks for the tip -I'll check it out.
saint.... here's a nice thread with a lot of pictures from different guys
bet you see something you like
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=54450.1
Beautiful work. Thanks
Saint
Well heres my latest built in bookcases. Some go from top to bottom and some have cabinets underneath, both in the same room.
Doug
Doug, that is nice!!!Semper Fi
"To be young and a conservative, you have no heart"
"To be old and a liberal, you have no mind"
Winston Churchill
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985
Impressive, did you do the ceiling too?“The richest genius, like the most fertile soil, when uncultivated, shoots up into the rankest weeds..” – Hume
Yep, well Dave and I did it!
Doug
Here is a better pic of the coffered ceiling - working on another one right now.
Doug,Totally wicked pissah!Wow.
Wicked pissah means that you grew up (or went to college) somewhere between worcester, ma. ,medford ma. (boston area), and and providence, r.i. Bobby Orr is wicked pissah.
Yup. Grew up outside of Worcester, went to school outside of Boston.
Holy Cross for me. Miss Worcester Diner!
What did you use as finish for the wood?Semper Fi
"To be young and a conservative, you have no heart"
"To be old and a liberal, you have no mind"
Winston Churchill
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985
Its all cherry, stained and lac finish.
The coffer boxes and the cabinets were all prefinished - all the flat work below the coffered boxes was put up raw because we needed to sand joints and so forth.
When we were done all the raw wood was stained and a sealer coat and one finish coat was put on. After that the whole room was sprayed with a final coat with a toner added to pull it all together.
We do a lot of work like this and often times we do a final coat over the whole thing - every nail hole, joint, you name it, dissapears.
Doug
You didn't mention sealing the wood before staining? Doesn't cherry blotch like pine? Whatever it is you did worked!Semper Fi
"To be young and a conservative, you have no heart"
"To be old and a liberal, you have no mind"
Winston Churchill
"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985
You didn't mention sealing the wood before staining?
No we didnt seal before staining. I dont do any finish work........well, no more then I need/have to!
I'm sure thats what the toning did on the final coat - bringing it all together.
With the exception of one kitchen job about the only time I do any sealing before staining is on a small piece, furnitue, small built in, something of that nature.
On the one kitchen that I sealed before staining I was using alder and the HO's had a color, sort of a carmel colour, that I had to get as close to as posible and not have a blotchy look. They couldnt have picked a more blotchy prone wood! I sealed with shellac, sanded, applied my stain, seal again, two coats of w/b finish on top.
Finishing that kitchen/entertainment/built in's had an additional price tag of approx 3-4K on top of what I normally included for finish. It added quite a bit of work to the job and I'm not sure that the 3 or 4K was enough. That job is where I cut my teeth on the HVLP - it was a good learning experience though.
Doug
Beautiful job!!!!I build quit a few paint grade built-ins but have trouble finishing stained units.Did you use a HVLP sprayer? I so what kind.
My boss finished most of this and he always uses a airless, he wants volume! You'd have to know him to understand that. :)
The stain was applied with a hvlp but thats about the extent of its use on this job.
We do use hvlp on some jobs- for instance if it was a remodel/inhabited house. In this particular case it was a new house.
oh, I really hate you.
Truly a work of art