Thinking about moving to the D.C area. Looking online at houses. Many of the houses are turn of the century houses (1900- 1920 etc). Can these houses possibly be structurally sound. Without the technology of today, you’d think these houses are ready to fall down.
Any thoughts
Replies
Years back a poster here had one of those jewels.
Seemed like he was enjoying the adventure.
Maybe the search thingee could find him, Andrew or maybe AndrewC.
Probably 5 years ago or more.
Joe H
One hundred year old houses most definitely can be structurally sound. This is not a guarantee, however the basic structure of a house has not changed a whole lot in this time. Technology has significantly changed the finished surfaces and the mechanicals but not the lumber underneath.
Modern technology, if properly applied, will create a more energy efficient house, although most older houses can be tightened up and insulated to be reasonably efficient.
The old houses at least have been time tested. Modern technology is not always so great. There are materials like synthetic stucco which turned out to be a major disaster in the real world with big time class action lawsuits. Your thoughts about new technology would not be so rosy if you were one of the people with a house less than ten years old that had to be bulldozed because it was so rotten under the synthetic stucco that repair was impossible.
With this said, if you like the old house charm, by all means, go for it. They generally do require more maintenance, however. If you, on the other hand, think everything should look shiny and new, if it is important the the floors be perfectly flat and level, and you think a modern floor plan is a must, stick with new houses. In a major metro area, you most likely will need to be located farther out in the suburbs to do this.
For the most part, a hundred year old house that has lasted that long IS structurally sound. If it had been poorly built, it would have already fallen. The question remaining is how well has it been maintained through the years? has water damage been prevented, or repaired or just covered up and hidden? Or has modern renovation/remodeling with modern engineering done more harm than good?
It takes a careful thorough inspection. I certainly would not buy anything like this online.
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Houses of that vintage certainly can be sound, and chances are any that have lasted this long in reasonable shape likely will be. Standards, methods & materials certainly were different a hundred years ago, though not necessarily worse. The area in which the house was built has great influence on how it was constructed. For example: My last old house was built in 1892 in a mining camp in the Colorado High Country. "Permanent" construction was a foreign concept for that area at that time, and few local professional builders were on hand. D.C. was already a mature city by that point, so it's reasonable to assume that some standards (albeit perhaps informal ones) and depth of local expertise was brought to bear on any house built then that has survived until now.
My experience with several "old jewels" suggests three main criteria affecting how well they translate into reasonable current-day housing. In order of importance:
1) Modifications over the years. I've seen more harm done by ill-advised changes to an old house than any other cause.
2) Lack of care. No matter how well built, any structure will eventually go to pot without continuous awareness of and attention to its changing needs.
3) Bad initial design and/or execution. A lot of this gets weeded-out fairly quickly, and the house suffers the fate of most by not lasting more than a few decades. Sometimes they got saved early-on by well-wrought work around soultions, and those can be fascinating ongoing maintainence challenges (just call it "character").
My above-mentioned High Country house is a lovely, if rather wonky, 3,000 sq.ft. Victorian. New houses in that area get footings 6' below grade, and I've seen frost heave bugger things still. But my old place was built with floor joists just sitting on dirt, and it's still there. Granted, it's something of a seasonally dynamic structure and that means I had to consider more than typical movement in everything from window & door anchoring to how I designed trim. Anyone who insists on modern standards of fit, finish, or stability will consider the place a disaster. But it's the longest-lived house in the area, a beloved local landmark, and soon to be included on the National Register of Historic Places.
A brand-new doublewiide will beat most hundred-year-old houses in just about every way -- 'tis all a matter of values & perspective.
}}}}
curley,
Wow! talk about hand grenades! you're wandering into an area filled with land mines and you want to know if the drinking water is cool?
On line doesn't tell you one critical element of any home.
The big issue that realitors always talk about.. Location, location, location! Are you moving next door to a royal pain in the azz? Are you going into an area going down hill? What are the schools like? Is the grocery store friendly and easy to use?
Are you are the end of a water main and the water pressure is poor or sewer lines likely to back up? Is it near a main artery where you will get an endless parade of door to door sales people or so far out of the way your friends will avoid visiting you?
Is the upstairs bathroom really cold in the winter and hot in the summer? Are the views out the windows pleasant? do you have to close one door to open another? does the window stick or painted shut?
Who's going to mow your lawn? What are the local ordinances about garbage cans like? Which neighbor practices drum solo's at 2 in the morning when they get home and which always forgets to turn off her alarms. when she gets home causing squads of cars to come with all the attending noise and sleeplessness that causes..
are your buglar alarms hopelessly obsolete or state of the art? Does it have a brand new circuit breaker panel but all the wire is almost as ancient as Thomas Edison.. Can you expect the religous zealots to appear at your door steps on a regular basis? or what about the neighbor who's always collecting for one cause or another?
Is the buillding safe? Sure! now pick any one of the other questions I asked and look into those.
It pretty much proves that most of the stuff that the engineers tell us we need today is nothing more that Simpson lobbying baloney.
A few studs and a few windbraces and most structures will stand up for hundreds of years. When a small problem arises, a few replacement studs and you get another hundred years.
Yes, 5/8" subfloor and 3/8" roof ply on 24"OC will still be standing to the chagrin of all the guys that think otherwise. Just keep a decent roof and coat of paint on it all and of course, redo all the exterior caulking every year when holes or cracks appear.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
"Yes, 5/8" subfloor and 3/8" roof ply on 24"OC will still be standing to the chagrin of all the guys that think otherwise"Yeah, sure!I've already replaced more than a dozen of those.
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Piffin,
Aren't houses built according to Blue's description called moble homes? ;-)
And I've replaced dozens of houses with 3/4 roof decks, 3/4 subfloors and 3/4 wall sheathing. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I guess I was lucky - didn't have to replace the whole house, only the sheathing problems. Nothing wrong with urban renewal tho
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
My house was built in 1790; 217 years young! All original floor joists (trees that were sawn in half, bark still on them) and framing. Nothing is plumb, square or flat. If I drop a marble on the floor it rolls off on its own never to be seen again.
The house has been insulated, re-wired, re-plumbed. Unless you have ultra-deep pockets every project is an exercise in compromise because to bring the structure up to today's codes you'd have to bulldoze it start from scratch.
I wouldn't change a thing about it.
Find an old house you like and have an engineer and reputable home inspector check it out to make sure the structure is solid.
-Norm
Is this a joke? Understand that ALOT of houses were built after WWI and WWII. At this time you were lucky to have electricity on site much less power tools.
When I work on old houses I marvel at how well things were made / done back then with predominatly hand tools.
New England has plenty of late 1700 - 1800 houses and their doing fine.
Todays technology is great but believe me we survived without it. I wouldnt be too worried about buying an old house. Actually I look forward to it.
Edited 12/27/2007 10:47 pm ET by MSA1
Hire a home inspector , don't buy online.Are you handy around the house.If not , buy less than 20 years old.An old house could be in perfect condition, or might be ready for demolition.I've seen a couple of new homes that will be ready for demo in a couple of years.
mike