I just got turned on to installing cabinet crown moulding with a hot glue gun. Anyone else with any experience doing the same? Any pitfalls? And tips?
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Replies
Keep the hot glue off your fingers.
Do you go back and nail the trrim to the cabs later? I can see where a dab of hot glue would make it easier to install short returns.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Jack
My concern would be weather or not it(the hot glue) will hold up over time.
I regularly use "super glue" to attach my returns with. Works great, but I cant imagine using hot glue for a permanent fastener. Might be wrong though.
Doug
You are not wrong.
I was doing almost nothing but cab install for about three years.
During a period when crown and built up became very popular.
Hmmmmm.........let me try this thing on those confounded mitres!
Wow!! That works great!!
It doesn't hold up. And I was buying some good sticks, can't recall the name. I have a Bostich 18ga brad nailer that just wouldn't cut it for doing mitres on those ever thinning pieces of prefinished crown stock.
I turned to yellow glue first with a dab of hot to hold it, I think a 23ga pinner may be the answer.
How would you do them?
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
I did some 6-1/2" crown with bullnose corners a few months ago and used hot glue to set the small pieces before I used my 23 gauge pinner on them. The 23 ga has much less impact than the 18 ga brad nailer so everything stayed put when I shot it.
Eric
As Dave said, I go back and hit em with the 23g pinner. That damn thing is the best thing since sliced bread.
I have used CYA glue and I dont think I have had any fall off. I only use it for very small pieces though and I use the thick stuff.
Doug
Edited 7/2/2005 12:56 pm ET by Doug@es
I've never used this but have heard very good things.
http://www.fastcap.com/prod.asp?page=2p10kit
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I've never used this but have heard very good things.http://www.fastcap.com/prod.asp?page=2p10kit
I think that's cyanoacrylate (also called CYA) which is "super glue". I've used CYA for joining cabinet crown sections and it worked out very well.
I used to be into model airplanes and we used CYA for gluing small balsa parts. It's nice because you can hold the pieces in position while the glue sets up. The activator speeds things along but it isn't always needed and I think the joint isn't quite as strong.
CYA can be bought in most hobby store in 1/2 oz to 2 oz bottles.
-Don
Works good.... until you go back and throw few brads,
Better do it while you're there.
Another fast trick is to use VHB 1/32" foam tape.
On finished panels and toe kicks ..only VHB (very high bond) double sided foam tape.
LA-EZ D.
I would be concerned about the longevity if the hot glue. I would try using the hot glue to "clamp" another adhesive in place. I've used this technique in other applications with success.
I've told this before but I'll tell it again. I once installed a cabinet grade, prefinished, solid cherry stair rail system in the builders personal house. I raised some concerns over how to fasten the posts without serious touch-up being required.
after much discussion I was told to cut and prepare the posts for installation but not fasten them. "Meet me here at 8 AM was all cabinet guy who made the posts had to say. I did and I was sceptical as hell. He whipped out this hot glue gun system that said PUR on it. I've seen ones kinnda like it since but this was the top of the line system. The gun was $1K and each tube of glue was around $100.
We test fit the posts, I freshly sanded and removed any dust from the contact surfaces, we glued them, plumbed them and applied pressure. He told me to come back the next day at 8AM and if I could knock one of them loose he would pay me double my hourly rate to clean them up and install them my normal way.
At 200 pounds I could not get them to budge. I finished the install and the job ended up on a website for a while.
That was over 5 years ago. Last I heard, maybe six months ago it was still as tight as the day it was installed.
I know some rail guys who also use one of the PUR systems to make rail connections. One shop I know of has been doing it for over six years with not a single call back. Thats a better record than most shops have with Rail Bolts and wood glue.
Wow. Thanks for sharing tht one.
IIRC the PUR gun is about $100-120.I think that the guy was putting you on.It is not realy a "hot melt" system as much as a hot dispensed system. It is polyurethane adhesive.When it first came out over the finishing forum run by Gary Katz was wild about it. Later they just became "wild" because of it.Most of what I saw it was being used for things like crown and returns. Not heavy duty applications like the stair rails.The problem was not with the adhesive, but the gun would clog up or the cartrige would harded after a short time.
Bill,
Several of my friends have the $100-200 version and it's a totally different animal.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43014&item=3880009230
This is more like it but not exactly. The one he had also needed an air supply. He gave me the literature and a list of distributors and I looked into it but the best deal I could come up with at the time was $899. That combined with the fact that the glue cartridges were at best a two use item, after that any adhesive left was junk and got thrown away, kept me away.The Cartridges were much larger and came in a wider assortment of strengths and qualities then they do for the $200 version. Hard to pass of $80 a day for glue when your a one man show billing $400 a day.
Of my friends who have PUR guns of the lesser variety few are impressed. They seem to be as big a pain in the a## as Paslode guns were when they were new.
Yes, that is different.I wonder if there is any basic differnence in the "system" or if that is an industrial version and the HiPur system was simply a down scaled version that was not able to work well after it was downscaled.
I think the Hipur system uses the same basic adhesives. It did seem like the industrial version offered more variety.
If you look at most of these systems, not jus PUR's, they are almost all a shop or manufacturing type tool. I suspect they don't lend themselves well to field work.
I've got one of those guns; so far, I think they have targeted their marketing mainly to the cabinetmaker crowd ( I bought mine at Woodcraft).The gun was about $70-80, and each glue cartridge sells for something like $7-8.They work on the same principle as a regular hot melt gun. My understanding is they have used this type of system (on an industrial scale) for years in furniture factories. The problem with the system is 1) the glue cartridges are expensive, 2) even if unopened, the cartridges have a limited shelf life, and 3) once open, I haven't been able to use them after the initial session. I can't attest to how well the glue will hold up over time, but it is definitely stronger than regular hot melt. I would think it would work just fine for crown returns, if you can back it up with a nail or two. ********************************************************
"I tend to live in the past because most of my life is there."
-- Herb Caen (1916-1997)
I am surprised no one has yet mentioned "Power Grab", a new type of construction adhesive sold by Loctite.
I first heard of it in this forum a few months back, and had to search around to find a local place to buy it. But now, even Menards has a big display of it as you walk into the paint department.
The stuff comes in a caulk tube, is white, and thinner than regular construction adhesive (more like a conventional caulk). It grabs almost instantly, and you can wipe off any squeeze out with a water dampened rag.
I used it for a crown molding job, and it is really slick.
********************************************************
"I tend to live in the past because most of my life is there."
-- Herb Caen (1916-1997)
I've just been lurking...waiting to see if PowerGrab would get a mention in this thread. I used the stuff myself just this morning. I use the PowerGrab and 23 ga. micropinner almost exclusively on cabinet crown. Have little need for anything else. Just wanted to see if anyone else would bring it up.
"PowerGrab would get a mention in this thread"
I have to admit, I'm not impressed with PowerGrab. I bought a couple tubes, on the recommendations from people here. Trying to save the money spent on 2p10, and there is no comparison.
What is 2p10?
http://www.garymkatz.com/TrimTechniques/FastActGlue.htm
Oh yeah, I looked into getting the 2p10 starter kit from Amazon, but it is currently unavailable. The nearest "local" vendor is 90 miles away. Might just get the glue and activator. The PowerGrab is not something I use to glue mitered joints, but I found it quite useful and holding pieces of crown in place (I don't use 23 ga. pins w/o some adhesive). I've also been using Titebond Molding Glue.
Edited 7/2/2005 11:06 pm ET by basswood
Fastcap will sell direct.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I saw a pneumatic hot glue gun on a job a year or two ago. It was also a stair company ,and the installer loved it.I don't think he used the glue on high-stress joints without a mechanical fastener to back it up. He also carried a propane torch to clean the tip with,worked like a charm. I looked into the guns, but the high price kept me away. Might be okay if a local supplier had glue sticks and could repair the thing.
I have used the gel type super glues( with the activator) for awhile now, also with much success. I still use micro-pins or brads to back it up, unless the piece is just too small. On prefinished crowns, I like to crazy glue then use a minimum of 23 gauge pins, and run a bead of heavy duty construction adhesive down the back of the joint. This might be overkill, but is quick and- just like using lots of glue on stair treads- cheap insurance to keep the number of callbacks down.
I must be using the wrong hot glue sticks. Trying to glue trim, especially pre-finished, I always end up with a slight gap between the pieces. I mostly use the stuff for templating or spot "welding"...What are you guys using that gives you tight joints?...and don't tell me Zig Zags<G> Don't worry, we can fix that later!
I've been using a mini glue stick gun to attach returns on window tabling, base and shoe for years; no callbacks yet. These are too small even for a 23ga pinner; the hot glue is all that holds them. My own place is done the same way and I haven't had any fall off so far; that's about 10 years since I put in the mouldings.
That said, I don't know about using the stuff on bigger pieces like cabinet crown. I use yellow glue on that, and blind-screw it from the inside if possible, 16-ga air nails if not and fill with colour matched crayons.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.