I built some cabinet doors for a client using paint grade poplar, 3/4 by 2 inch rails and stiles, with 1/4 plywood panels dadoed in. Some of these doors are fairly large 14 by 52 or so to go in a pantry.They do not want to lie flat. Are there any techniques to retrain them? Do I install hefty magnet catches (or electromagnets better yet)?.
I did my best to glue these up flat, using “third world” method of butts and dowels. Do not want a shaper at my advancing age for part time cabinet work.
The kitchen is on an island, I have been building, delivering by boat and installing piecemeal for several months. The house is partially heated (50 degrees). The owner has not seen any of this (yet). Any ideas or am I building them over again?
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Well, I see a list of potential problems. First, the "third world" method. Can you be 100% sure that the bores for the dowels were perfectly plumb? If off even a fraction, the door won't glue up flat. Door joinery is a critical aspect of cabinetry, as you know, and any method is prone to problems if not monitored closely. Second, did I read that there is a boat involved? This increases the humidity, and thus the chance for the poplar to absorb moisture and warp thusly. Maple is reall quite dense, and won't absorb as much moisture as poplar, but it is an unstable wood, and is prone to shinkage and expansion, regardless. And lastly, the heat in the project area could also be a culprit. I am having the same issue with some trim I am installing up here in New England. The outside temp was really warm all Dec. and Jan. when I was Installing and prepping the crown, and then the floors were finished (months early) and they cranked the heat up to 70 inside, and then it finally got cold, and a long story short: The wood shrank. Considerably. Could be why your doors are warping. It might be just too cold inside your project. Good luck.
That size and shape of door is one I would EXPECT to twist. I also buy doors and components sometimes from a cab parts place. If you placed an oder with them for that size, they would have you sign a waiver acknowledging that you are aware that it is an unstable size and prone to twist.
If we were making that ourselves, we would rip and relaminate the stiles with glue and grain orientation to resist the movement.
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Built some of these recently, but used 3/4" MDF shaped for the panels. Four were 16X52, and the rest smaller.
Bought good kiln-dried 4/4 poplar, and after ripping some of the long stiles warped. I usually let shaped stock sit for a week before assembly. I haven't had this problem with soft maple. Also the 1/4" ply may not have enough stiffness to counteract the rail warpage. It's easy to panelize 3/4" MDF with just a router table, and do M&T with the same. If you're interested, I can explain in a later post.
Thanks, I guess what I'm looking for is what do I do with my current situation. Is it salvageable. What would you do? What would Jesus do? Or in this case, Jesus' father (the earthly one). I currently have them overbent the other way with shims, but I'm not counting on that. I really don't want to build them over.
There was a tip either in FHB or FWW several years ago that addressed your concern. Fortunately, I've never had th need to try the solution, but I've heard from a few who have and they said it worked great.I may be wrong in my specifics, but the gist of the solution was to take a length of wire, say 1/4" thick, and bend it into an elongated "U" shape:!_________!You'd form two of these "U"s, the one oriented as in the pic above would be inserted into the bottom of the bottom rail of the door, another flipped upside down would be inserted into the top of the top rail on the door.As to the size of the "U", the base (____)was about the distance between the midpoints of the door's stiles, the length of the upper (!) legs were several inches long. Maybe 4 or 5 inches?I don't think he always used two U's, he may have sometimes just used one on slightly twisted doors, two on larger or more twisted doors.Anyhow, picture your door standing up. He'd drill two vertical holes, from the top down, one hole into each of the hinge and latch stiles, several inches deep. Clear the waste as you drill so as to not split the stile.He'd then connect the holes by routing a groove about 1/2" deep into the top of the top rail, connecting the two holes.For the U that would go into the upper rail, he'd hold it upside down and twist the legs so they were slightly out of plane, then insert the inverted U into the top of the door. The legs go in the drilled holes, the connceting base into the routed groove.The twist in the legs is what forces the door back into plane.According to the original poster, as well as those that used it, it worked wonders.Is that as clear as mud? Hope it helps.Consider investing in a biscuit joiner, or at least a biscuit slot cutter that you can use in a router. When doing butt joinery, biscuits are so much easier, faster, and more accurate for assembling stiles to rails on cabinetry doors.I don't think I've doweled anything since 8th grade shop class.Mongo
I know you don't want to do'em over again, but you may have to. Dowels (IMHO) are not a good alternative to M&T joints on doors, and the 1/4" is fine for little'uns, but the big'uns will just warp on you. If you have a router table, and a TS, you can make any door you want, without a shaper. Just need a good stile and rail set, and a home-made sled to cope the ends. It's easier than dowels too....
Sorry, TS?
Table saw.
Other abbreviations: BS: band saw, CS: circular saw, FUF: injured digit... ;-)
steaming the wood would be the easiest method but an assembled door would likely come apart. too much moisture and heat would break down the glue.
keeping it over bent like you are doing, wrap a wet towl where on the problem stile is and leave it there until you get it good and moist, maybe a couple of hours. then put a heat gun on the stile you need bent and leave it there for an hour or so. get it good and hot without burning. after you take the heat gun away dont unclamp until the next day
Ive had good results with this process sometimes incorporating a clothes iron. if it doent move enough for your liking repeat the process
Poplar is a terrible wood for maintaining stability.