I’ve had a Williams and Hussey Molding machine for about 15 years now and the 2 H.P motor dropped which bent the shaft that the pulley rides on. It still seems to work fine but theres a slight wobble. I’m not sure how this effects its performance if it does at all. Everything seems to still work. I just made some more raised panels on it which came out fine. I’m wondering if the shaft can be straightened out or if I should even be concerned. Any idea?
Thanks,
andy
Creation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.
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Replies
You're sure it's the shaft and not the pulley, or the bearings...
A good machine shop should be able to straighten and/or turn that shaft straight again. If need be, material can be added by welding on where the pulley sits, then turned smooth to pulley's I.D., then new keyway cut.
Thank Pierre and highfive...yeh, thats what I thought, take it to a machine shop...just thinkiong it'd be expensive...and no, the pullys not bent. When I turn it by hand I can see the shaft is bent. Think its worth having them straighten it out? Seems to work the way it is but I'm wondering if it'd turn even faster if it were straighter.Creation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.
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Take the parts to a good machine shop. They should be able to not only check them for straightness but they should have a press that can be used to straighten them, if possible. Their idea of accuracy is way beyond what is needed for woodworking but in this case, you want it to be as close to straight and balanced as possible.
While the first impulse is to get it fixed, for guys like me, a cost/benefit analysis is usually the best decision-making tool:
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Phil, see my post to Piff...thanks
and I don't use the thing more than once a month if that.Creation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.
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I know nothing about machine work, but are you sure the shaft is bent?
Probably so after dropping it. How far a drop anyway?
Mine runs with some wobble too. I have to check the pulley alignment occasionally, but there is another problem that could be the cause.
That is because the motor is so heavy, they use the weight of it on that pivot mount to hold it tight to the pulley. I know you don't have the same base set-up as mine, but it might be something similar. Anyway, sometimes it seems like it bounces a bit, especially when working with thick, heavy cuts. So I keep a rubber bunjy cord holding it back down . When it bounces too much, vibrations run into the stock and mill marks are more obvious.
So it is in large part a matter of keeping the pulley aligned and the belt straight and snug.
We had the key fly out once and the pulley walk off the end too. It didn't get dangerous, just kind of lazily drop to the floor in the shavings pile and try to roll a few inches. So make sure you check the key nut now and then.
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it works fine. Totally. Fell about six feet mnonths ago. I have noproblem keeping it the way it is but was wondering if it turns faster without it being bent.
Also...have you checked prices for cutters lately? WOWWWWWW
I have cutters to do T&G and haven't ever used them and was wondering how many years it'd take to cut T&G for flooring for a small room hyperthetically. Think the T&G blades are just for small projects?
I also have cutters for stair railings I never used. Gotta try those.
I've primarily used the machine for raised panel work and as a planer.
How bout' you?Creation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.
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Just the opposite. I have a planner, though I use it that way enough to have two sets of planner blades.
I do mostly casings, crowns, wainscots and aprons with it. I have a couple screenmold and other specialty knives. Probably twenty sets altogether.
have never cut a set of panels on it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
yeh, I have a casing blade too...colonial casing and made some cherry casings a ways back...I might have to buy some crown and bed cutters for all around use...damn cutters are sure expensive....so now with my newish router table I don't know which to use. What a problem, huh : )
Considered a ways back buying one of those cutter maker machines for $800 but I have to stop somewhere..lol. Just scored a nice 14" older Jet bandsaw that has a riser block attached to it...$200. I stole it, just about : ))Creation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.
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This one is listed as used for $575. Looks like it has a 3"-4"corregated shaper body with it. Might have to buy the W/H attachment
http://www.hightech-industries.com/usedmach/VIEL%20GRINDER.HTM
View Image
Yikesssss....don't get me goin'! Yeh, thats what I need....gulp.
No I don't, no I don't, no I don't, no I don't, no........Creation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
http://www.ramdass.com
to spend or not to spent, that is the question....
depending on where you live and the milling companies available, it might not be a great deal. BUT, if you tend to have small runs needed in a quick turn around, this thing is great. i personally look at a tool as a investment even if it takes years to pay for it. But, I'm more interested in getting my work done with no delays
Takes about an hour per set. That includes making the temp.
I have yet to buy a stock W/H cutter.
There are other companies that sell W/H bored blade stock in 25" lenghts. and some also with 60degree corrugation so smaller cutters can be run in a shaper body or you W/H
I have cut my own pieces to lenght with a 1/8" cut off wheel on a 4" grinder and have not had any problems with cutters being un-balanced. Most of the cutters I have ground are less than 2" in lenght. Mostly panel/trim moldings
I totally hear ya! I'd love to watch you make a few. Maybe if I'm on the left coast this winter I'll have to stop by.Creation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.
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http://www.ramdass.com
I just wrote them and told them my wife'll kill me but how much...lol.
I'll let ya know if they feel sorry for me or not...yeh sure they do.
We'll seeCreation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
http://www.ramdass.com
I have a W&H that I use occasionally for personal use.The attachment to hold the blades in the Viel machine is about $70.00Can. I bought one in the spring so I could make a grinding machine of my own someday. (Haven't got that far yet.) Viel also sell blade stock, drilled in 25" lengths. The 2" wide is $134.00Can and the 2 1/4" is $179.00Can (Those prices are from the 2004/2004 catalogue.) By the way. That catalogue lists the Profile Grinding Machine for $899.00Can which is about $775.00US.They also have an Elliptical molding kit for $99.00Can. It consists of a small base with a spring loaded 2 bearing follower and a separate bearing and the bolts. You bolt it to a sheet of your favorite sheet goods and clamp it to the molder table. To use, you make a 1" thick template that rides between the bearings with the piece to be profiled attached on top. It was actually meant for closed planer/molders like the RBI and Woodmasters. (Viel make their own machine too.) The Kit is a bit crude but it's 1/7th the price of the factory or aftermarket ones. Again I bought one but haven't gotten around to mounting and using it. Anyone see a pattern here? :-)Viel is based in Quebec and doesn't have a website. Their phone number is 418-898-2601, fax is 418-898-2606.As for your bent shaft problem. If you are planing to beat on the shaft You should buy/borrow a cheap Dial Indicator and Magnetic Base to see exactly where the high spot is. Half of the total amount of indicator movement is the amount the shaft is bent. Personally I would take the motor apart and straighten the shaft and armature separately. Banging on the shaft can damage the bearings, but bearings are cheap from bearing suppliers and it wouldn't be the end of the world if you need to do that down the road.
They also have an Elliptical molding kit for $99.00Can.<<<<<I think W&H's eliptical attachment is over $600..someone here posted a plan on how to make your own pretty easily a few years ago but I never got into it and lost the thread
$99,,WOW,,,pretty cheap.
I think I'm leaving well enough alone with my motor. It works so.......
The veil grinder would be nice to have. Would pay for itself in no time I suspect but I have to draw the line somewhere..
Maybe down the road I'll luck out and find a used one at a good price.Creation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
http://www.ramdass.com
As I understand it, the 'ellipticcal' jig has a spring loaded eeper guide that self adjusts to the changing radius and that makes it an expensive unit. I think I remember a time when it was under two bills!But if you are doing constant radius ccurves, there is no need for that. A male and female curve guide to clamp oin flanking the piece will work or a set of pins with rollers set in a table like mine. That is how I do curves.
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post some pic of your set up sometime. As a matter of fact...while yer at it..post some pic of your shop : )
Am I gettin' too personal? lol
Heyyyyyyy, yer the one that shares stories about shaving your legs...lol..or was that waxing : )~
That really was a funny story...lol.Creation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
http://www.ramdass.com
soaking feet in hot wax. Theo suggested the hair removal treatment...so, where were we?The photos are here in the BT archives someplace. Searching under hussey or W&H oughta find them. You'll have to catch me at the other pc to get more out of me.See, I'm not as easy as you thought, big boy
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
1. take the pullley off
2. verify wobble of the shaft alone
3. You can do this by eyeball, but dial caliper is better.
A. turn shaft so bend points up. Place brass strip on end of shat, whack with hammer.
B. Repeat till straignt. Redo fromother direction if you whack too much in one direction.
Have often done this and it actually works, your can practice on a piece of 1/4" drill rod in the chuck of a drill to get a feel for eliminating wobble by this simple method.
A. turn shaft so bend points up. Place brass strip on end of shat, whack with hammer. <<<<<<<I actually did do that but used a block of hardwood on the shaft to hit instead of some brass strip. I was thinking...what a stupid thing to do andy, y'll probably make something worse...but I did it anyway using a lump hammer. I wacked it a good dozen times but I don't think it changed anything. I could try it again but if I break it I'm comin' after you...lol.Creation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
http://www.ramdass.com
Ya gotta use metal (or whack the shaft directly, file smooth afterward) as the wood absorbs all the energy of the hammer blow.
By experience, have found that a 32 oz hammer whacking the shaft directly on the edge of the end (easier to file off the flat spot & peed up area) works best. Also leave the motor firmly mounted.
Lighter hammers just bounce, heavier tend to move the whole motor.
before wacking... you should support the shaft at the motor end so that you are not just wack'n the bearings in the motor... a piece of 1/4 or so flat stock metal agaist the motor under the shaft would help
motor removed lag bolted or clamped to a bench... metal support holding the weight of the front of the motor from the shaft... then wack.... a dial gauge would be nice but a frame'n sq will work to eye ck run out....
my other option would be.... motor clamped tight pulley removed... power on and a couple files.. and a stationary tool block.. and i'd try turn'n down the shaftback to round... yeah your pulley won't fit but... some very thin brass or alum stock wrapped arounf the shaft would bring it back to size......
as you can tell i never consider the cost of my time... as it has none... if it took two hours and it kept me from buy'n a $250 motor... then in that window in time i made $125 an hr... if it was a $50 motor... well i made less didn't I ? :)
p
If it's just a jackshaft that's bent, that's a standard item that any shop dealing in motors and bearings should stock by the inch. They can probably even grind new flats for you, if you bring in the old piece.
when I owned and operated a machine shop
a few years ago, we died a lot of work for a
moter rebuild shop down the street, we had a
special lath that we used exculsivly for small
electric moter shafts and pullys, whereas most
moter shafts have to be accurate to .0000 most
machine parts only fall into the .000 catagory.
the type of repair you want would probley cost
more than a new shaft I think I know about what
size shaft you would need in my minds eye, and would
probley cost less than 50.00 ,if you want to change speed
of your machine you need to change pullys I have to look up
the formula for figuring r.p.m.and pully size.
fifty bucks wouldn't be bad butthe question is..is the rpm effected by the wobble? Its not horrible but definatly noticable. If it really doesn't effect the rpm much I'll leave well enough alone.
So...does a smaller pully make the rpm's sped up a bit?
Its 2 HP Baldor. Its an expensive motor.
Thanks
andyCreation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
http://www.ramdass.com
yes wobble does effect the rpm ,but not enough to really
notice it on something like what you are talking about, wobble
and misalignment lead to loss of effintioncy/ inappropriate bearing
loads - causing premature bearing failure.
V-belts are a tremendously inefficient, that is why ,not all, but a lot
of industrial equipment are going to wide flat direct drive cog belts.
the worse thing you could do right now would be for you to
speed the thing up with a bent shaft. the faster you go the
more pronounced the wobble and undesirable forces you are
generating on a bearing somewhere down the line. shoot no
more than you use it, runn'er till she pukes then fix it
Andy,
Are you running a standard v-belt ? A linked belt might reduce the perceived vibration quite a bit. It might reduce it to just a "look" wobble.
Greg
I have to disagree with some of the others. Bent shafts are, IMO, not fixable items. Let me explain why:
For rotating equipment, balance is critical. Less balance, more vibration. The vibration wears on things, and affects the work that is performed.
Sure, machine shops have all sorts of measurement devices and tools to work metal. Even IF the manage to restore the shaft to perfection, in my experience it's always a lot easier to bend something a second time.
The quickest, easiest, cheapest, and surest fix is almost always to replace the bent shaft with a new one. Now, making a new one is a piece of cake for a machine shop....
What's not clear here is whether this shaft is the motor shaft or a jackshaft. If it's a jackshaft it's stupid to try to straighten it. If it's the motor shaft then it's worth a shot at straightening if the bend is bad enough to affect performance.
Seven blunders of the world that lead to violence: wealth without work, pleasure without conscience, knowledge without character, commerce without morality, science without humanity, worship without sacrifice, politics without principle. --Mahatma Gandhi