Replies

1. 
   GoldenWreckedAngle | Oct 04, 2004 09:26pm | #1

   I think I read a parable about that guy the other day.

   Kevin Halliburton
   And with that, the great emporer Oz gently floated away on a curtain of hot air, laughing at the unfortunate ignorance of little people beneath him. But under his breath he cursed that stupid little dog...

1. 
   moltenmetal | Oct 04, 2004 09:33pm | #2

   Great minds think alike- I was going to say the same thing...Evidence that Jesus was indeed a carpenter, what with the building advice He gave...

1. 
   NickNukeEm | Oct 05, 2004 12:00am | #3

   The foolish man builds his house upon the sand, the wise man builds his house on the rock.  And the experianced man builds his house on a hill out of brick. 

   I never met a tool I didn't like!

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 05, 2004 12:03am | #4

   What about underground homes? 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   Hubedube | Oct 05, 2004 12:56am | #7

   What about them?

2. 
   BillHartmann | Oct 05, 2004 12:04am | #5

   What about building OVER the dunes.

   One piers sunk to resistance.

1. 
   CapnMac | Oct 05, 2004 12:48am | #6

   What about building OVER the dunes

   Depends upon where the dunes are . . .

   Probably not much need for hurricane resistance in Arizona . . . <g>Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

2. 
   VaTom | Oct 05, 2004 03:16am | #12

   Depends upon where the dunes are . . .

   Probably not much need for hurricane resistance in Arizona . . . <g>

   Only a very small area with dunes there.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!

3. 
   IanDG | Oct 05, 2004 01:33am | #8

   It's quite possible to build on a stable sand sub-soil, it can be done on piers or on a slab foundation at depth.

   With the slab foundation, the weight of the building is calculated and the slab is put at such a depth that the sand at that level was already bearing the same weight --- if that makes sense.

   IanDG

2. 
   4Lorn1 | Oct 05, 2004 02:14am | #9

   In reading some of the history of the area around Cape Hatteras NC I ran across some pictures with a story behind them.

   Seems that for quite a few years this area was quite popular as a summer vacation site but there were few places to stay. People would build small cottages on skids to stay in on vacation.

   These cottages would be dragged inland and fastened to a large chain at the end of the season. The chain was taken from a ship, links looked to be around 2'long each, with a huge anchor, only the top exposed, at either end.

   They would be dragged out nearer the water for the summer but returned if a storm threatened. One picture showed a bulldozer dragging a cottage. The cottage looked quite nice about a 15' by 20' unit. Quite adequate for a vacation home.

   I thought this was an elegant solution. it also would cutail to ongoing cycle of beach erosion and rebuilding that ends up only speeding the erosion the next time. Mostly done to protect homes of people who can affort to move. People who use their disproportional representation to use tax money to benefit a few.

1. 
   cwolf | Oct 05, 2004 03:47am | #13

   I know that there are many homes built above dunes on the southern end of Cape Hatteras. I go to vacation on Emerald Isle where I'm on the 3rd or 4th row of dunes (probably evolved over hundreds of years). Even this house thats about 10 years old is on 12 x 12 pilings sunk 6 to 10 feet deep and crossbraced until the structure is complete & then is much like a torsion box on pilings and is very stable. There remain older, even ranch style (closer to the beach) homes that survived many storms. When one is blown over or swept away it is replaced by an elevated building if approved by the BI.

   I am aware of a NC politition that built a large home between the last waterfront home and the channel entrance. This required him to circumvent all of the CAMA & local rules thru his connections. Within a year they were trying to save the building by using these enormous whale sized bags of sand to hold back the erosion. This cost the pol over a hundred grand for the bags ,sand and bulldozer and pumping equipment. In the end (6 months later) he also had to pay to demo the house.

   I'm going down for a while next week and when I get back I'll post some photos of the house during it's demise. It was a giant waste of money and resources to satisfy an overdeveloped ego.

3. 
   blue_eyed_devil | Oct 05, 2004 02:33am | #10

   I built on the shores of Lake Huron on "blow" sand.

   It's still standing and nothing has sunk...too much.

   God help me if the water comes....

   blue

   If you want to read a fancy personal signature...  go read someone else's post.
1. 
   Piffin | Oct 05, 2004 03:05am | #11

   Whaddid you say was the name of that Lake yer on? 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   blue_eyed_devil | Oct 06, 2004 02:11am | #21

   Pippin, I'm on Lake Huron. The entire site used to be low, but was filled in with blow sand, either mechanically or by nature. I'm basically floating...The stuff is horrible to walk in...we used to lay walkboards everywhere.

   My dodge went 10' with its factory tires before I was stuck. I went a little wider with my new tires and I think I can drive through the stuff now...in 4w low.

   blue

   If you want to read a fancy personal signature...  go read someone else's post.

1. 
   Piffin | Oct 06, 2004 05:49am | #22

   It was a play on words, you devil!

   Huron

   Yer on

   get it?

   That blow sand sounds like puff stuff 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   blue_eyed_devil | Oct 06, 2004 07:30am | #23

   Yuck, yck Piffin...yer in!

   blueIf you want to read a fancy personal signature...  go read someone else's post.

4. 
   UncleDunc | Oct 05, 2004 04:03am | #14

   Dunes move when the wind scours sand off the windward face and drops it in the wind shadow on the leeward face. There are places where dunes have stabilized, in human lifetime terms, if not in geological time. Typically the average wind speed in those places dropped enough that vegetation could sprout on the dunes and keep the sand from going airborne. A small increase in wind speed or decrease in precipitation could put the dunes on the march again.

   If you have reason to believe a particular dune is stable, such as the presence of old growth vegetation, then building on it should be little different from building in deep sand anywhere.

   Theoretically, in places where the dunes still move, you could put drift fences on the windward side of a dune so the sand would be deposited there as fast or faster than it is scoured away. Might be tricky, and would certainly be unsightly, if the snow fences if this part of the country are any indication.

5. 
   DANL | Oct 05, 2004 04:11am | #15

   When I was a planner (80's-2000) there were some laws passed in Michigan that made you get a permit to build on most dunes--permit was issued (rarely) by the Dept. of Natural Resources (now renamed the Dept. of Environmental Quality and I always think of Dairy Queen when I see DEQ now). But it seemed some people managed to build on dunes anyway. One thing was to use the "Grandfather" clause--if a building was there, you could keep it; if you modified it, it had to fit on the same blueprint or it wasn't permitted. So, one restaurant on the dunes wanted to remodel, so they basically left the brick veneer where it was and built a whole new building inside of it so they were grandfathered in. Either DeVoss or Van Andel (founders of Amway--both multi-millionaires), I forget which one, managed to get a permit and built a four story house of several thousand square feet complete with helopad on roof, on the dunes overlooking Lake Michigan near Grand Haven.

   Before there were such laws though, a glass company actually removed a dune and made glass from it--where the dune stood between Lake Michigan and Muskegon Lake, it is now as flat as a parking lot (may in fact be a parking lot now). I keep secretly hoping the lakes will rise again and break through the neck of land with resorts and marinas and restaurants where the dunes used to be.

1. 
   brownbagg | Oct 05, 2004 05:28am | #16

   around here you cannot get no where close to the dunes, they are protected. will put you under the jail for walking over them.

1. 
   Hubedube | Oct 05, 2004 03:15pm | #19

   Where's "here"?

6. 
   trolll | Oct 05, 2004 06:47am | #17

   dont due it, the harkonens will attack you, and paul a. is dead.

1. 
   DANL | Oct 05, 2004 01:01pm | #18

   What about the worms? ;-)

2. 
   CapnMac | Oct 05, 2004 07:56pm | #20

   But what about the Atriedes great-grandchildren?  They've grown up on a planet where you could drown . . .

   Can't put it all down to either the Emperor or the Harkonnen (but I suspect the Bene Gesserit).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)