I have an old house with cast iron drain and waste pipe, mixed with pvc, copper. I recently installed a basement bathroom with a sewage pump/crock – – being that the main waste line is about three feet off of the basement floor as it exits the house.
Currently, I have my sewage pump sending my effluent up about seven feet to some remodeled DWV made of PVC. However, I am not happy with this setup due to the noise incurred upstairs when the pump operates, and the ensuing water hammer from the pump stopping and the check valve working.
The main cleanout that exits the basement wall is very close by, and I would like to consider tapping into this with a PVC Wye/Cleanout – – thus eliminating the problems noted above. However, this cleanout is about 75 years old and of course does not budge – – at least easily.
My question: Will applying heat via propane torch to the cleanout loosen the threads to remove the plug? Does this pose any problems? Can I do this successfully and insert a pvc adapter and Wye? Or am I missing something easier? I would prefer to not to remove the rest of the cast iron if I don’t have to.
Replies
You will need to cold chisel the plug out. I generally chisel out the square part of the plug first then start chiseling the outer part towards the hole where the square part once was. Then it should pop out. Be careful to not hit any of the female threads.
Then use a new plug or one of those rubber plugs that tighten in place.
Handyman, painter, wood floor refinisher, property maintenance in Tulsa, OK
Ok. Thanks. I suppose a cold chisel would work well on cast.
careful...
take it easy...
be nice....
I suspect you don't want to break the hub....
bu violence is what it is gonna take..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Make a hole in the clean out then cut some v's with a recip saw almost all the way to the thread, then start with the chisel to remove the v wedges and go from there. Like other said, take your time and be careful of the hub
seiverth -
Just a quick question as to what you used to budge the plug in the first place - ??
If the wrench you are using isn't nearly 18" long and maybe 15 lbs it isn't the right one (see photo). Maybe try some liquid wrench to saturate the threads ... and buy the right wrench - if you didn't use what I pictured. You can always slip a piece of pipe over the handle for a little addtional leverage too.
Jeff
Edited 12/27/2007 12:41 am ET by Jeff_Clarke
I do have a nice sized pipe wrench. The last time I tried loosening this plug has been years ago. I got a little nervous with the amount of force I was using. Luckily then, I never had to get it off. This time, it would be great to extend it with that wye.
My initial intent is to use some PB, a little heat and love, just as I have with some old galvanized. However, every time I had a little something where I wanted a safety net, this is the place to go.
Is the water hammer from the effluent line or the supply line that drives the pump?
I've no experience with sewage pumps and just curious.
The sewage pump has quite the output. I have a 2" pvc coming from it with a vertical rise of about 80" from floor to peak. When the pump kicks off, the water at the highest point comes crashing down to the check valve, making a loud "thug".
The system works great, just needs a little tweaking to eliminate the noise involved.
move the check valve....
seems like the wated shouldn't be crashing down...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Most want the check valve close to the pump/crock. To much wast/water falling back into the crock from a to far away check valve can cause the pump to short cycle. Then you get twice the noise, and half the pump life.
To the OP.
Rent a cast iron snap cutter. Support the ci above the hub, then cut out the whole shebang. Reinstall a santitary tee and connecting pvc pipe leads with no hub bands
Save your knuckles and your self a lot of beating and banging that can result in you breaking the hub anyway. Just take it out and save all the frustration for use on another project.
Dave
the check valve can't be close to the pump if the water effluent is falling back...
time to examine the current location of the CV...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
It doesn't seem to make sense, but I know what he means. He is lifting the waste 7', the check valve on most units are close to the crock. When the pump shuts down he has a 6 or 7' column of water not crashing back down, but violenty seating that check valve. That is a big part onf the noise, the remaining part is the quick shut off of the pump and loss of head pressure.
Shortening the lift will help, but he wil still get the shut off noise.
Dave
so did the pump come with a CV installed???
did someone else install the CV???
are there two CV's in the line???
is the current CV hanging up or deffective???
what is the IRL location of the CV???
let's ask the OP....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I have only used Zoller crocks and pumps, so don't know about other set ups.
On the Zoller crocks the ejection pipe comes out and goes into a union about 6" above the top. The other side of the union has the CV and then a ball valve IIRC
His arangement might be slightly different, but from his discription of the noise it sounds like both of the units that had high lifts, I have installed. Both were complete pvc systems so they were going to be noisier than a ci hook up.
I was able to dampen the noise on both units a little by securing the pipe to reduce the bump factor when the pump shut down. The in floor crock was much better than the above floor model in that respect.
I just followed direction on both my installs, so don't know if a real plumber would have a better solution to the problem.
Maybe Plumbill wil come along and give a simple solution that both the OP and I can use.
Dave
Torch MIGHT work. Thing to do is to heat the hub pretty hot then cool the plug with wet rags to shrink it.
Gonna smell.
seiverth,
You need a really big pipe wrench 18 inches is sort of the minimum.. get a cheater pipe to slide over one that short. You need a torch and you need something like WD40 or liquid wrench. (there are other, better fluids) Heat that thing up with the torch, aim the flame on the outside of the plug. not at the plug. What you want is the cast iron to expand away from the threads.. once you've done that squirt some WD40 or liquid wrench type stuff at the threads really let soak them.. that will cause the cast iron to cool back down.. so now reheat same as before aim at the outside of the threads not the plug.
You should have your wrench adjusted to the plug and she'll come out realitively easily. The nice thing is the plug is reuseable as are the threads plus you won't risk shayttering the whole hub.
PB Blaster is what I am hooked on now a days, it makes wd-40 and LW look like water in comparison.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I would start with PB Blaster. Then heating it. I would not try heating the outside and keeping the center cool. Then let it cool. Then give it another shot with the PB blaster. Then tap on the plug with a hammer. then another shot of PB Blaster.All of this helps break up the corrosin. Then repeat a couple of hours later.In mnany cases by the 3rd time you do this you can spin it out with your fingers.That is if you are a HO or working on the job where you have some time.If you can't afford the repeat trips then after the first cycle get out the heavy duty tools mentioned above..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
"PB Blaster is what I am hooked on now a days, it makes wd-40 and LW look like water in comparison."
Yup, truely amazing stuff.
can you look at this post 98693.19 and give us some answers please???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I am sorry for not getting back. I had been checking in, and did not see any threads for a while, so I moved on. If anyone is still following this one, here is the status:
For the CV, it is near the basin as required. The noise is from the check valve once the water above comes back and the check valve does it's job. The pump does not create excessive noise.
As for the plug, it is a brass plug as I have found out since cleaning it up. I have tried loosening once or twice with no luck. With PB, with a cheater bar, with heat. I will keep working on it, just with a bit of a bigger cheater bar. However, I do wonder if cutting into the brass plug would be easy also. Part of the plug threads are visible, so my other thought would be to cut off the front of the plug, then pry inward the threads that are in the cast.
you cut the bulk of the core of the plug out and then "fold" the remainder of the plug in on it's self...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Removing the cap:
Drill a 1/2 inch hole in it near the edge. Put something like a chisel against the hole and use a hammer to drive the cap off. An air chisel works well too.
If that doesn't work, I'd get more serious.
Edited 12/27/2007 2:22 pm ET by MarkH