*
Greetings:
I would like the advice of the ceramic tile installation gurus on the board here. I am a homeowner interviewing a couple of tile installers for the following job. I have a small entry way which spills into a ultility/laundry room which also contains a small half bath in the rear. Currently, there are 33 year old 12×12 vinyl squares on the concrete slab substrate. I have heard them referred to VCT or the like. These old tiles are very brittle and chip up quite easily using a putty knife or similar. Most installers simply want to tile over them and only remove loose ones at best. They intend on removing any loose looking ones and filling in the “holes” with a “slurry” coat of mortar to level out the floor where they would chip up the loose ones. I am of the mindset to chip all of them up prior to the tile installation. I should add that the old vinyl tiles were adhered with some sort of yellow adhesive which now appears like a varnish without any remaining tackiness whatsover. So, of course, I don’t know whether to allow the installer to tile over the existing vinyl or have them removed first and risk some sort of adhesion failure with this old glue. The installer told me that he could remove the vinyl tiles and his “latex additive” would allow the ceramic to adhere to the old adhesive without any problem.
Any advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Replies
*
Remove the old tiles first.
I see the end result of bad tile jobs all the time. Most of the problems are related to the substrate giving, which makes the tile that is adhered to it give.
Go for the solid substrate (all tile removed), and you should not have any more problems.
James DuHamel
*Thanks James:What about the residual old tile glue (looks like a yellow varnish)? I have removed small portions of it with solvent as an experiment but I'm not a fan of filling my home with solvent fumes to remove all of it. Do you think the "latex additive" approach will provide adequate adherance between the patches of old glue and the new mortar/tiles ?Thanks!
*I would try to remove as much of the glue that you can. Any thin set that you use will only adhere as good as the surface it is adhereing to. So in other words you want your substrate as clean as you can get it. Good luck.
*Hi Ron:Any suggestions as to glue removal? Is roughening it up a bit with a scraper good enough for adhesion or do I need to resort to solvent strippers?
*JP, you might try a turbo torch on the glue. Heat it and scrape, doesn't stink as bad as solvent removal. Small grinder with abrasive disc once you have it as scraped as it's gonna get to expose raw concrete surface. Joe H
*No matter how good the "latex additive" is, it will only be as effective as the bond that the current glue has to the concrete floor. Even if you only used a small 5-in-1 scraper, I would use a tool to remove as much of the old adhesive as possible. It's quite possible that the glue has the same adhesive grab on the concrete that it has on the old tile - None. Try it.I wore out the end of a Vaughn flatbar a few years ago but it was the only tool that would do the job. They wouldn't allow me to bring in an appropriate power tool to a church preschool building what with all the sensitive little lungs running around underfoot. Pretty neat (I think) being the subject of an in-house field trip.
*I would suggest that you remove allthe VCT first. Then I would apply the new ceramic tile with an adhesive like Korolastic. This is more of a glue that is formulated for this type of application and will bond better than mortar to your glue coated surface. This is also the same product that is used to apply ceramic tile over sheet vinyl.Pete
*I would remove all of the VCT and the old adhesive could be removed with brush-hammering, not too difficult considering the "small entry".However the Kolorastic sounds interesting. Jerry
*Will your sub guaranty the adhesion? If so, for how long?On a certain level, I like the vinyl, as it acts as a nice isolation membrane, something which is necessary for tiling onto a slab. However, most thinset is designed for specific substrates, like mortarboard, and won't adhere well to other substances.Depending on how long you intend to own the home, this is what I would do:1. Lift on all the vinyl tiles and mastic.2. Try to scrape off all the mastic and bits of tile, down to a nice fresh surface.3. Install an isolation membrane (either the glue down kind, or the peel and stick).4. Tile over the membrane.This will give you a fairly permanent installation.
*Thanks everyone for all of your fine suggestions. I tried a Hyde scraper on some of the glue and it is still adhered very well. If a product will adhere to this glue like the Kolorastic without dissolving it completely, I think I may be ok. Pete, where can I find this product? Do you have a website or phone number? Jerry, could you educate me on what "brush hammering" is all about?As I mentioned before, the old glue does come off with strong solvent (I think I used acetone or something near that strength level) but I really hate solvent fumes in my home. If I can get away with a trustworthy product such as the Kolorastic recommended and considering that we need to move soon (home getting too small or I'm accumulating too much stuff) I'm willing to give it a go.
*I'm surprised no one suggested laying down some kind of wonderboard over the tiles. less time consuming, less dust. The only issue would be the added 1/4-1/2" height.
*Neil:Wonderboard...is that like durarock?
*Yup! Jeff
*
Greetings:
I would like the advice of the ceramic tile installation gurus on the board here. I am a homeowner interviewing a couple of tile installers for the following job. I have a small entry way which spills into a ultility/laundry room which also contains a small half bath in the rear. Currently, there are 33 year old 12x12 vinyl squares on the concrete slab substrate. I have heard them referred to VCT or the like. These old tiles are very brittle and chip up quite easily using a putty knife or similar. Most installers simply want to tile over them and only remove loose ones at best. They intend on removing any loose looking ones and filling in the "holes" with a "slurry" coat of mortar to level out the floor where they would chip up the loose ones. I am of the mindset to chip all of them up prior to the tile installation. I should add that the old vinyl tiles were adhered with some sort of yellow adhesive which now appears like a varnish without any remaining tackiness whatsover. So, of course, I don't know whether to allow the installer to tile over the existing vinyl or have them removed first and risk some sort of adhesion failure with this old glue. The installer told me that he could remove the vinyl tiles and his "latex additive" would allow the ceramic to adhere to the old adhesive without any problem.
Any advice on this matter would be greatly appreciated.